|
Didn't the Tennant Doctor say that the Master was an incredible genius, whom it would be an honour to travel the universe with at some point over that Christmas/New Year two parter?
I know he was supposed to be trying to talk him out of something else at that moment, but the way it was said I had the impression he was being sincere.
(And back when the Master was played by Jacobi and the Tennant Doctor met him, before either of them knew he was the Master, he was impressed with what the Master had been doing with very basic materials.)
Indeed, part of the schism of the relationship is that the Dr admires the Master and what he would have become had he not gone mad....
It doesn't really matter what the Doctor can do, it was what the TARDIS could do, and he said it couldn't sustain the paradox which is obviously false.
|
|
It doesn't really matter what the Doctor can do, it was what the TARDIS could do, and he said it couldn't sustain the paradox which is obviously false.
Not obviously. The point is the Master took the TARDIS and made something *else* which held the paradox.
Like taking a Jet engine and using it to power a car.... I wouldn't call This a plane, or say it can fly. But it uses the same basis, and physics.....
The idea that the paradox can exist *but not inside the TARDIS* also has merit.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
Also, it's a different kind of paradox. One is a time loop with something from the future going back in time and changing something in the past - but it didn't actually succeed in killing off it's ancestors.
The Amy paradox involved the same person not only from two different points in their own time stream, but with one's future directly cancelling the existence of the other's. Not that I'm a temporal engineer, but the Amy paradox seems a different order of magnitude in terms of paradoxes. The one with the Master and the future humans only caused a potential paradox, since in the end, the paradox of them actually killing off all of humanity was averted.
Also, it's a different kind of paradox. One is a time loop with something from the future going back in time and changing something in the past - but it didn't actually succeed in killing off it's ancestors.
The Amy paradox involved the same person not only from two different points in their own time stream, but with one's future directly cancelling the existence of the other's. Not that I'm a temporal engineer, but the Amy paradox seems a different order of magnitude in terms of paradoxes. The one with the Master and the future humans only caused a potential paradox, since in the end, the paradox of them actually killing off all of humanity was averted.
Yeah, there has totally never been two of the same person from different points in that person's time line in the TARDIS before. Nope, never.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
There's a major difference here. Multiple incarnations of the Doctor have appeared in the TARDIS, but they were woven into his history, not one being a direct cancellation of the other. Rescuing Present Amy from her situation directly cancels the time line that would have led to Older Amelia. Similarly the previous incident of multiple Amys, Rorys, and multiple Elevens were also part of the continuiing timelines for each, not Paradoxical.
I think he may have been thinking of Mawdryn Undead
There's a major difference here. Multiple incarnations of the Doctor have appeared in the TARDIS, but they were woven into his history, not one being a direct cancellation of the other. Rescuing Present Amy from her situation directly cancels the time line that would have led to Older Amelia. Similarly the previous incident of multiple Amys, Rorys, and multiple Elevens were also part of the continuiing timelines for each, not Paradoxical.I think he may have been thinking of Mawdryn Undead
But in the case of The Brigadier in Mawdryn Undead, the TARDIS was only peripherally involved, and the actual paradox took place on the science-tomb-prison-ship, ultimately having nothing to do with the TARDIS itself.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
But in the case of The Brigadier in Mawdryn Undead, the TARDIS was only peripherally involved, and the actual paradox took place on the science-tomb-prison-ship, ultimately having nothing to do with the TARDIS itself.There's a major difference here. Multiple incarnations of the Doctor have appeared in the TARDIS, but they were woven into his history, not one being a direct cancellation of the other. Rescuing Present Amy from her situation directly cancels the time line that would have led to Older Amelia. Similarly the previous incident of multiple Amys, Rorys, and multiple Elevens were also part of the continuiing timelines for each, not Paradoxical.I think he may have been thinking of Mawdryn Undead
Oh I know, it's the only episode I could think of though, where you had one person, at different points in his personal timeline, in the Tardis. Of course it has been 25+ years since I saw it...
Edit: Were real pregnant Amy and River ever in the Tardis at the same time?
Edit: Were real pregnant Amy and River ever in the Tardis at the same time?
If we assume the Silence were at least partly responsible then yes ... the trip from the Utah diner to the White House and then from the White House to the Silence lab.
But maybe she was grabbed at some previous point after their wedding by someone else.....
Cheers
Mark
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Edit: Were real pregnant Amy and River ever in the Tardis at the same time?If we assume the Silence were at least partly responsible then yes ... the trip from the Utah diner to the White House and then from the White House to the Silence lab.
But maybe she was grabbed at some previous point after their wedding by someone else.....
Cheers
Mark
I thought of that, but didn't know if the Silents snagged her when they were out by the water. We know she saw one, but don't know what it might have done...
|
|
I thought of that, but didn't know if the Silents snagged her when they were out by the water. We know she saw one, but don't know what it might have done...
Edit: Were real pregnant Amy and River ever in the Tardis at the same time?If we assume the Silence were at least partly responsible then yes ... the trip from the Utah diner to the White House and then from the White House to the Silence lab.
But maybe she was grabbed at some previous point after their wedding by someone else.....
Cheers
Mark
It makes sense that she got snagged by the Silence when she was alone with the one in the restroom at the White House. Considering they disintigrated the poor secretary who walked in while Amy was in there, it makes sense that this was when the switch was made. But again, River and fetal Melody may have co-existed but one was not directly trying to cancel out the other's existance.
It makes sense that she got snagged by the Silence when she was alone with the one in the restroom at the White House. Considering they disintigrated the poor secretary who walked in while Amy was in there, it makes sense that this was when the switch was made. But again, River and fetal Melody may have co-existed but one was not directly trying to cancel out the other's existance.I thought of that, but didn't know if the Silents snagged her when they were out by the water. We know she saw one, but don't know what it might have done...
Edit: Were real pregnant Amy and River ever in the Tardis at the same time?If we assume the Silence were at least partly responsible then yes ... the trip from the Utah diner to the White House and then from the White House to the Silence lab.
But maybe she was grabbed at some previous point after their wedding by someone else.....
Cheers
Mark
There's also that long gap between Episodes 1 & 2. We didn't see Francis Barber until the old asylum....
Off course that raises the possibility that River isn't really the girl she thought she was...My god this story arc is getting convoluted.
I'm still betting on the person in the spacesuit being The Doctor
Rory is the most likely. Or the time police.
I'm still betting on the person in the spacesuit being The Doctor
Actually I think it was Pudding Doctor. Remember, The Flesh has played a pretty important role through this whole thing. I don't think its job is done yet.
I'm still betting on the person in the spacesuit being The DoctorActually I think it was Pudding Doctor. Remember, The Flesh has played a pretty important role through this whole thing. I don't think its job is done yet.
Given that, it's just as likely that the Doctor killed was the Flesh Doctor.
Given that, it's just as likely that the Doctor killed was the Flesh Doctor.I'm still betting on the person in the spacesuit being The DoctorActually I think it was Pudding Doctor. Remember, The Flesh has played a pretty important role through this whole thing. I don't think its job is done yet.
That's actually what I meant to say - but because I am an enormous goober and was multi-tasking I misread Loz's statement and answered with my theory regardless.
Mi Scuzi, Signore.
Actually, that really doesn't make sense either. He knew too much of River's history that the current Doctor didn't.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
|
Actually, that really doesn't make sense either. He knew too much of River's history that the current Doctor didn't.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
Still sitting in the middle of the desert in America. Maybe invisible. Also WTF did River not know what was going on??
She can't be in the suit as a little girl, she would have known it later. So the space person is not her.
Actually, that really doesn't make sense either. He knew too much of River's history that the current Doctor didn't.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
Still sitting in the middle of the desert in America. Maybe invisible. Also WTF did River not know what was going on??
She can't be in the suit as a little girl, she would have known it later. So the space person is not her.
Clearly. There would be no reason to put so much effort into getting close to Amy Pond to get close to the Doctor if she already killed him as well.
The TARDIS isn't invisible, it has a perception filter. However that can be bypassed if you know what you are looking for.
|
|
Actually, that really doesn't make sense either. He knew too much of River's history that the current Doctor didn't.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
Still sitting in the middle of the desert in America. Maybe invisible. Also WTF did River not know what was going on??
She can't be in the suit as a little girl, she would have known it later. So the space person is not her.
Clearly. There would be no reason to put so much effort into getting close to Amy Pond to get close to the Doctor if she already killed him as well.
The TARDIS isn't invisible, it has a perception filter. However that can be bypassed if you know what you are looking for.
And have the Key to get into it.
Which why they didn't just look for the Doctor's Tardis after he was killed I still do not know. River should have had access if no one else. I was wondering if it wasn't actually in Chameleon mode and the car he was sitting on.
|
|
Which why they didn't just look for the Doctor's Tardis after he was killed I still do not know. River should have had access if no one else. I was wondering if it wasn't actually in Chameleon mode and the car he was sitting on.
I thought the chameleon circuit was fried and stuck so that it could only be perceived as the police box...
Actually, that really doesn't make sense either. He knew too much of River's history that the current Doctor didn't.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
Still sitting in the middle of the desert in America. Maybe invisible. Also WTF did River not know what was going on??
She can't be in the suit as a little girl, she would have known it later. So the space person is not her.
Well, after emptying her gun at the astronaut but failing to injure it, she did mutter "No, of corse not".
Cheers
Mark
it's a TARDIS from 200 years in the future - he could have repaired it by then
After having not done so for the past few hundred years?
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Actually, that really doesn't make sense either. He knew too much of River's history that the current Doctor didn't.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
Oooh, The TARDIS is alive... A Flesh Tardis? The time vortex would stablalize it.
Edit: This is something that always bothered me about 'Pete's Earth.' Torchwood was created specifically because of the Doctor. So did Pete's Earth have Timelords/Daleks? What happened in Pete's Time War?
I'm going on the clue from "Let's Kill Hitler"... it was stolen by River Song. You're assuming that the Future Doctor still had his TARDIS.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
The ability to continue to time travel kind of implies that.
He had been stuck on earth before. Had a pretty fancy car at that time too.
Then how does he know about stuff that happened off-world? He and River compare notebooks and talk about things that haven't yet happened.
I wouldn't try too hard and force Dr Who into a narrow band of continuity - its a very old show and a lot of the back story is contradictory...
In regards to the new stuff, Russell T Davies was not one for continuity either... often making stuff up on the fly (like the producers of Lost).
He had been stuck on earth before. Had a pretty fancy car at that time too.Two of them in fact.. extra credit to those who remember their names. :)
Bessie and the WhoMobile (I think it may have been a hovercraft) its been a long time since I saw the Pertwee episodes.
The TARDIS is not the only means of time travel possible. two words... Vortex Manipulator.The ability to continue to time travel kind of implies that.I'm going on the clue from "Let's Kill Hitler"... it was stolen by River Song. You're assuming that the Future Doctor still had his TARDIS.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
They wouldn't have found a Vortex Manipulator on him?
|
|
They wouldn't have found a Vortex Manipulator on him?The TARDIS is not the only means of time travel possible. two words... Vortex Manipulator.The ability to continue to time travel kind of implies that.I'm going on the clue from "Let's Kill Hitler"... it was stolen by River Song. You're assuming that the Future Doctor still had his TARDIS.
On that note however, where is the second TARDIS?
Did they bother to look? Could he have disabled it and left it in the car? I think the big issue is why are the principle characters all keeping secrets from each other that could give the entire plot away and finish the season early?
Chief Technical Officer
|
Bessie and the WhoMobile (I think it may have been a hovercraft) its been a long time since I saw the Pertwee episodes.He had been stuck on earth before. Had a pretty fancy car at that time too.Two of them in fact.. extra credit to those who remember their names. :)
The Whomobile (which was fortunately never called that onscreen) didn't just hover, it flew, by way of some really bad CSO. (See Planet of the Spiders 2; it's one of the most pointless episodes ever, as more than half of it is taken up with a multiple car/helicopter/autogyro/flying car/speedboat/hovercraft chase sequence that ends with the person being chased essentially teleporting away, leaving everyone to wonder why he didn't just do that at the start...)
The Whomobile (which was fortunately never called that onscreen) didn't just hover, it flew, by way of some really bad CSO. (See Planet of the Spiders 2; it's one of the most pointless episodes ever, as more than half of it is taken up with a multiple car/helicopter/autogyro/flying car/speedboat/hovercraft chase sequence that ends with the person being chased essentially teleporting away, leaving everyone to wonder why he didn't just do that at the start...)Bessie and the WhoMobile (I think it may have been a hovercraft) its been a long time since I saw the Pertwee episodes.He had been stuck on earth before. Had a pretty fancy car at that time too.Two of them in fact.. extra credit to those who remember their names. :)
Planet of the Spiders - is that the one with Harry, Sarah Jane and the Doctor regenerates at the end?
I loved Pertwee and his Venusian JuJitsu... My brother in-law has a full sized poster of the naughty picture of Katy Manning (Jo Grant) and a Dalek.
Planet of the Spiders - is that the one with Harry, Sarah Jane and the Doctor regenerates at the end?
I loved Pertwee and his Venusian JuJitsu... My brother in-law has a full sized poster of the naughty picture of Katy Manning (Jo Grant) and a Dalek.
Yes, that's the one where Pertwee regenerates into Baker, with a bit of help from another renegade Time Lord.
The Third Doctor's martial specialty was known as Venusian Savate. Savate is a word for a French martial art.
Venusian Aikido actually. ;)