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It occured to me that it could only be one person.
A lot of folks think it might be Romana, but as a Galifreyan Timelord herself she would have learned how to pilot a Tardis at the University of Gallifrey.
I think it might be Susan. Susan (The Doctor's Grand Daughter) is also Galifreyan. Now her parents are supposedly killed in an uprising started/led by the Master and for some reason the Doctor Steals a Tardis and Flees Galifrey. Now, i suspect that that 'version' of history isjust what he told Susan. I think she was perhaps the baby in the back seat of the Car when the Doctor Jacks her parent's ride.
She could just as well be the Mother of the Tyrant Salamandar who in 2030 attempts to take over the world. Salamandar has one point of interest. He is a clone of the Second Doctor. He is also described as being from mexico...which brings up the issue of this sudden shift of the Series to the USA.
River also > Dances the sweetest ballet < .
Kali, Goddess of Death?
The dr and river are kinda flirty. If she's family that's gross.
the Dr's Killer.
the Dr.'s Wife.
the Dr's daughter.
A sex changed Captain Jack
the world will never know. Until the screen writers make up their minds that is.
Whatever River Song turns out to be I'm pretty sure she's not a new version of any of the Doctor's previous women. She's River Song. although I think there is a faint possibility....
** spoiler omitted **
As we know Cpt. Jack is "the Face of Bode" im pretty sure River is not him
Hmm RIVER and a POND as companions.
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Wild guess: maybe River is Amy's daughter.
I've heard that rumor too.
The name always makes me think of the last line of the original series:
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do."
(From Wikiquote, but it reads.. off somehow)
I remember it as "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and seas sleep, and rivers dream;"
Plus why would Amy name her baby River Song?
I do think River is the astronaut who killed the Doctor (post hypnotic suggestion) So he's not just saving his life, but hers.
Her describing what it's like knowing the Doctor to Amy, it made me want to go watch Silence in the Library again.
I am under the sneaking suspicion that the Impossible Astronaut is the Doctor himself. It allows him to kill off a future self, and absorb the regeneration energy directly...and what he is doing is deleting a looped version of himself, not actually ending his own existence forever.
(For all I know, it's all part of a hair-brained scheme to get around the theoretical 12-regeneration limit).
I am under the sneaking suspicion that the Impossible Astronaut is the Doctor himself. It allows him to kill off a future self, and absorb the regeneration energy directly...and what he is doing is deleting a looped version of himself, not actually ending his own existence forever.
(For all I know, it's all part of a hair-brained scheme to get around the theoretical 12-regeneration limit).
It's in interesting idea. But what if he did this to NOT absorb the regeneration effect? This would certainly explain the space suit.
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It's in interesting idea. But what if he did this to NOT absorb the regeneration effect? This would certainly explain the space suit.I am under the sneaking suspicion that the Impossible Astronaut is the Doctor himself. It allows him to kill off a future self, and absorb the regeneration energy directly...and what he is doing is deleting a looped version of himself, not actually ending his own existence forever.
(For all I know, it's all part of a hair-brained scheme to get around the theoretical 12-regeneration limit).
I know I'm tired of Rose, but what if the Impossible Astronaut is Hand Doctor? ;-)
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Steven Moffat is not likely to be using any of Russel T. Davies/ material. Davis went to considerable lengths to tie up all of his loose ends so that Moffat would have a clean canvas. So we're not likely to see anything from the Ninth or Tenth Doctor's era ever again, save for given universals which precede him. like Daleks and Cybermen.I know I'm tired of Rose, but what if the Impossible Astronaut is Hand Doctor? ;-)It's in interesting idea. But what if he did this to NOT absorb the regeneration effect? This would certainly explain the space suit.I am under the sneaking suspicion that the Impossible Astronaut is the Doctor himself. It allows him to kill off a future self, and absorb the regeneration energy directly...and what he is doing is deleting a looped version of himself, not actually ending his own existence forever.
(For all I know, it's all part of a hair-brained scheme to get around the theoretical 12-regeneration limit).
Yeah, but it would be a nice twist to see Hand Doctor be the Valeyard or something. I'm going with River though.
Still miss Donna.
They have been hinting that River Song is married to The Doctor in the future.
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I was thinking she was going to turn out to be the Rani, and that the Lodger time machine was her version of the TARDIS.
But then my brother, who hated Doctor Who until I forced it on him, pointed out that if River Song had been a Time Lord she probably would have regenerated at the end of the Silence in the Library two-parter, so now I'm not so sure.
Susan is an interesting idea. In an early appearance River appears to know the Doctor's true name. He says "there's only one way you could know that" or something, and my assumption was that she was his wife, and that this was some kind of marriage thing.
It's also possible, however, that she knows it because they are family. As in "because she is Susan."
I've wanted Susan to come back since, well, since the Dalek Invasion of Earth, but at this point I don't really expect it to happen.
Also unclear (though I don't think it should be): Is Susan "actually" the Doctor's granddaughter? A lot of old timey fans before the new show would say "no," because they liked to idolize the Doctor as a sort of sexless old man incapable of ever scoring with a woman. I think the new show has sort of put the lie into the super-chaste interpretation of the character, and he's referred to other family members. So there is absolutely nothing implausible whatsoever about Susan _actually_ being the Doctor's granddaughter.*
Some people think the older woman "Time Lord" from the Gallifrey episodes was his mother. In any event I always found it interesting that at the end, when she is with Rassilon, she holds her hands in front of her face in an identical posture to a Weeping Angel. But ANYWAY, that's a bit of a digression.
It would be super cool for River Song to be some character from the past of Doctor Who. But I'll honestly be just as satisfied if she turns out to be an original modern creation. She's one of the better bits of New Who, in my opinion.
And she'd make a great Rani. They need to bring that character back. Only this time they should make her considerably less Panto.
* What IS utterly implausible, however, is the fact that the Doctor has NEVER been shown to have returned to Susan, whether she was truly his granddaughter or not. "One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there should must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine." That's not a promise you would ever walk away from. ESPECIALLY if you're the Doctor!
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Susan thoughts
This could explain, in part, his reaction in The Doctor's Daughter. He was expecting a wife and daughter, not Jenny. It could also explain why River unnerves him. If they are/were/will be married (depending on who's personal timeline you're reviewng) I doubt he was expecting River to be Susan's Grandmother!
That said, yes. That promise is very important, and I've used it myself.
If River's the Rani, and lost the fob watch (or *gasp* The Doctor will steal it) then she's effectively human when she dies in Silence in the Library and all her 'Time Lordiness' is still in that watch, somewhere. Now it would be interesting if Jenny found the watch...
And yes, Alex Kingston would make a delightful Rani.
"Some people think the older woman "Time Lord" from the Gallifrey episodes was his mother. In any event I always found it interesting that at the end, when she is with Rassilon, she holds her hands in front of her face in an identical posture to a Weeping Angel. But ANYWAY, that's a bit of a digression."
Rassilon covers that when he says they will stand as the weeping angels of old, I thought.
Some people think the older woman "Time Lord" from the Gallifrey episodes was his mother. In any event I always found it interesting that at the end, when she is with Rassilon, she holds her hands in front of her face in an identical posture to a Weeping Angel. But ANYWAY, that's a bit of a digression.
Didn't RTD explicitly state that while he was writing The End Of Time, he envisioned her as the Doctor's mother? Which would explain the meaningful looks that she gave him (Wherein she said with her eyes "Hey, blow up the diamond"), as well as the absolutely necessary temporal interventions between her and Wilf?
On the same topic, wasn't Romana supposed to be the other lady who voted Nay to Reborn Rassilon's plan?
On the topic of River, though, her behavior is absolutely not that of a descendant, but of a lover who realizes that she's going to forever be having a first date with the man she loves.
Plus, she's already told The Doctor that she was in prison for killing a "great man" - which she said with the same reverence she uses for speaking about what it's like to be with The Doctor. There's a lot of Very Heavy Implications going on in her tone, which should not be discounted.
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It's been addressed in various ways in the Expanded Universe. In one BBC book, she is reunited with the Doctor in his Eighth incarnation (the one from the FOX movie). She gets posession of one of the Master's TARDISes and starts roaming time and space on her own. That's as close to canon as I think we'll ever see on that point. One does have to keep in mind that the adventure's of William Hartnell's Doctor are decades and several producers past in production.
My interest in the "expanded universe" is NIL. If it doesn't happen in the show, it hasn't happened.
I'm sure there's lots of fanfic about what happened to Susan, too, but I don't consider that binding, either.
My interest in the "expanded universe" is NIL. If it doesn't happen in the show, it hasn't happened.
Mr. Mona, you are a bright spot in my day. Please accept my accolades.
No grounds for that save speculation. The last we know of Romana is that she deliberately stranded herself in E-Space in order to avoid being sent back to Galifrey.
On the same topic, wasn't Romana supposed to be the other lady who voted Nay to Reborn Rassilon's plan?
Well, that, and help the Tharill reclaim their Empire... which seems rather a not-nice thing to do, considering what sorts of shenanigans they got up to...
The dr and river are kinda flirty. If she's family that's gross.So how unrelated do you have to be before it isnt gross? Cat n Dog? i got news...Humans is havin sex with they sistas for last million years...thatz right. a million years of Kooties.
A minimum of four generations seperation.
Well K-9 may have the plans to the TARDIS in his head, but she was going to need help in building her own. So I imagine it would work out to a quid pro quo deal, and the episode is supposed to be sympathetic to the Tharill despite their past sins.
Sympathetic or no, the Tharil basically told Romana and the Doctor that if they could, they'd do it all over again the same as they did before - even though Romana stayed behind to "help them build a new life based on freedom and equity." Even as a kid, I always thought they'd played both her and The Doctor like cards.
But we're getting way off topic here.
As to River, I really do think it "is just that simple." As she put it in the episode "The Time Of Angels" when she asks Amy "do you really think it's that simple?" and Amy responds "Yeah," she smiles and tells Amy "Oh, you're very good."
She's The Doctor's wife. At some point in the future, they get married. Unfortunately, she's forever having "fifty first dates" with him, because they keep meeting up out of temporal sync.
She probably also killed him, hence going to the Storm Cage.
Here's my issue with that. The priest in Time of Angels doesn't know who the Doctor is yet he knows who River killed. So it can't be the Doctor. But I may be wrong on that scene.
There is also the theory that she kills Amy and the Doctor snaps and becomes evil(IE killing "a good man")
Hows this for a wierd theory, don't read if you haven't seen the impossible astronaught yet:
** spoiler omitted **
The Priest never says he doesn't know who The Doctor is. In fact, he asks River specifically "Is this him?" after realizing that River hasn't delivered "an army" to him. He also specifically tells River that if she's not careful, he'll tell The Doctor exactly who she is and who she killed to end up in Storm Cage.
At first he's not sure he can trust The Doctor, but later on he gives over implicit, absolute faith. Which just makes it all the more touching when he goes.
Just watched it last night to brush up on all my Pre-S6 River appearances so I'd have my ducks in a row. :)
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It's easy to imagine that any of the big bad renegade Time Lords probably escaped the fate of thier bretheren...I certainly hope more Time Lords than just the Doctor and the Master escaped the Time War. I refuse to believe that the Time Lords (especially the outside-the-box, renegade ones) can't manage to do what every major leader of the Dalek Empire and several million rank-and-file Daleks did.
It would be amusing if a batch escaped to E-space.
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It would be amusing if a batch [of Time Lords] escaped to E-space.It would also be amusing if the Time Lords resurrected Omega, who then helped some of them escape into an anti-matter universe like the one he used to rule as a god. Then you could have an entire race of insane Time Lord demigods trying to invade the normal universe every now and again.
Well since they were desperate enough to resurrect/release Rassilon, I'd guess all bets are off on what they might attempt.
River is an expy of Bernice Summerfield.
In seriousness though, I doubt she is anyone we have seen before (other than River Song).
I definitely don't think she's Susan--as noted by others, she was his **granddaughter**; that would make their flirtatiousness rather ewwy. Especially if you've actually watched the old series and seen what the Doctor and Susan's relationship was like. And especially and most importantly convincing, River absolutely cannot be Susan because she has not once ever sprained her ankle by tripping on air.
But was she truly The Doctor's granddaughter? Back then The Doctor was not a alien who could change his form and personality completely. What if him calling Susan his granddaughter, was just a cover, and he was really her father. If River Song is The Doctor's wife at some point in time, could she be Susan's mother?
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Steven Moffat is not likely to be using any of Russel T. Davies/ material. Davis went to considerable lengths to tie up all of his loose ends so that Moffat would have a clean canvas. So we're not likely to see anything from the Ninth or Tenth Doctor's era ever again, save for given universals which precede him. like Daleks and Cybermen.
I would like to see the Doctor's daughter from "The Doctor's Daughter" return. I think there are many stories there.
But was she truly The Doctor's granddaughter? Back then The Doctor was not a alien who could change his form and personality completely. What if him calling Susan his granddaughter, was just a cover, and he was really her father. If River Song is The Doctor's wife at some point in time, could she be Susan's mother?
Just as a point - it is possible for someone to have/had multiple marriages in their life. Gallifreyans are no exception. Not everything in the Who-verse has to be a recursive loop that explains previous characters or events.