Lich Phylacteries & Defensive Measures


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

From the Evil Overlord's list:
5.

Spoiler:
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Frankly if I had 9th level spells as a lich I'd figure out how to create a pocket dimension and store my phalactry their. Assuming only the lich has ever seen/traveled to the pocket dimension and never bothers to name it it'd be nigh impossible to permanently destroy the lich.

Bonus if the dimension is one where time moves faster.

*party blows up lich, cheers*

*lich reappears fully healed and rested.*

"What?"

*lich slaughters party* "Has it really been a month? my how time flies when you're rebuilding your corpse"


Matthew Morris wrote:

Bonus if the dimension is one where time moves faster.

The spell whose name escapes me allowed you to create a pocket dimension with normal time and gravity traits, so you'd have to tap into epic magic for the temporal distortion.

Though, as a lich, I really like the idea. Plus you could create magic items in what would be a fraction of the time on the prime material.

edit: though the 6 seconds on prime = 1 month in the lichy dimension is probably excessive. This lich is begging to have inevitables come after him without warping the rules of time.


Matthew Morris wrote:


Bonus if the dimension is one where time moves faster.

*party blows up lich, cheers*

*lich reappears fully healed and rested.*

"What?"

*lich slaughters party* "Has it really been a month? my how time flies when you're rebuilding your corpse"

Note to self, purchase a scroll of Genesis once I get my multi-phylactery.


Veneth Kestrel wrote:
Note to self, purchase a scroll of Genesis once I get my multi-phylactery.

THAT WAS IT! That was going to bug me all day.


Veneth Kestrel wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:


Bonus if the dimension is one where time moves faster.

*party blows up lich, cheers*

*lich reappears fully healed and rested.*

"What?"

*lich slaughters party* "Has it really been a month? my how time flies when you're rebuilding your corpse"

Note to self, purchase a scroll of Genesis once I get my multi-phylactery.

I really like this idea. Forget just an adventure, you can write an entire campaign around invading a Lich's demiplane looking for it's phylactery.

Is there any way that the entire demiplane itself could be the phylactery?


Firest wrote:
Is there any way that the entire demiplane itself could be the phylactery?

That would be some serious stretching of "Magic Physics." Yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds.

A better idea would be to have the material componet (crystal sphere) instead be a focus. Lets say it's hidden somewhere on the plane and it's also a phalactry, or you have to break it to get to the phalactry. When the sphere breaks the demiplane begins to crack and soon implodes on itself. Could make for a very trippy escape scene if they have to exit through a portal and not just planeshift.

Liberty's Edge

While he's not exactly a lich it is implied that Rajaat tied his essence to the elemental plane of water.

Personally I love the tarasque lich problem.

And the Evil Overlord #5 suggestion.

Spoiler:
Eberron's House K would be perfect for this.


ShadowcatX wrote:

While he's not exactly a lich it is implied that Rajaat tied his essence to the elemental plane of water.

You'll have to help me. Who is Rajaat?


Just thought of another one.

Take some of these ideas (moving vault, posessing phalactry, etc) and move them to an undead heavy plane, such as negative energy.

Or make a pocket plane and fill it to the brim with something the lich is immune to, but is deadly to others(cold, poison gas, negative energy). Then fill it with skeletons/other also immune nasties that are not a threat to the lich.

Or if the lich feels he is VERY VERY clever you can make a deal with a devil to put his phalactry somewhere in hell for eternity. Though this will inevitably backfire regardless of the terms. Could be an intersting problem for the players to have to negotiate with devils to get the info/access to both hell and the phalactry.

Ohh, i'm getting all tingly thinking about the possibilities!

Liberty's Edge

He's from the Dark Sun campaign setting. In that world he's the creator of arcane magic.

He also happens to belong to a race that gets druidic and psionic abilities (at high levels) naturally, so he's not exactly hurting for power.

Spoiler:
He's fought in one of the dark sun novels briefly, and his essence, instead of being inside his body is inside his shadow. But his body seems to be largely tied to the plane of water (and actually uses clouds to repair damage it takes) so as to be invulnerable. He can't be defeated unless his soul (shadow) and body (water) are destroyed so the good guys imprison his soul in a light spell and encase his body in pure obsidian.


I guess my idea is a little uninspired but to me if the lich really doesn't want his phalactry found he should place it in a adamantite box,arcane seal it,permenantly greater status it,then bind a shadow demon or a greater shadow to guard it and then transport the whole thing to the negative energy plane.
Negative energy powers the undead so the greater shadow as well as the lich will be more powerful.

If the party is high enough to fight a lich they should be high enough to go plane hopping to find a perfectly formed dark crystal phalactry thats been hardened to resist breakage.


I just had another thought- if you do end up embedding your Phylactery in some poor guy's skull, you have to name him Phil.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

If I may harken back to an earlier post...

We can make clever, near impossible to defeat, methods for lich survival. As a DM, they need to be flawed. My 'six second lich' trick above makes *sense* (well except that anything entering that plane is going to have plenty of time to screw over the lich before he can react). It doesn't make for a good story for a fully healed and recharged lich to reappear in a round every time he's destroyed.

Going to a strongly negative aligned plane to find the umbral dragon ravener guarding the phylactery is difficult, but an adventure and can be prepared for. 6 second lich recharge isn't.

Besides, there's already a certain hubris in being a Lich. "I am invincible! There's no way those adventures and their animal companion can stop me!"


Matthew Morris wrote:

...We can make clever, near impossible to defeat, methods for lich survival. As a DM, they need to be flawed. ...

Going to a strongly negative aligned plane to find the umbral dragon ravener guarding the phylactery is difficult, but an adventure and can be prepared for. 6 second lich recharge isn't.

Besides, there's already a certain hubris in being a Lich. "I am invincible! There's no way those adventures and their animal companion can stop me!"

Yes, this was very much the kind of thing I had in mind when I started the thread.

Some of the suggestions range from sublime to self-defeating. A hiding place needs

  • To be a place where the lich can regenerate safely. This means it has to be large enough for the lich, and it has to contain a spare spellbook (for wizards) and magical components and foci for all casters. Without quick and easy access to those things, the lich is pretty much helpless.
  • Feasible. Not all liches can afford a crypt on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. Besides, that spot's too crowded as it is.
  • Secure. Somewhere the lich can reassure herself that her soul and immortality are safe beyond any reasonable doubt. One of the issues with a lot of the more elaborate suggestions is that there's no way for the lich to check up on the phylactery. I see this as a critical component for pretty much any lich.

Still, an interesting discussion. Thanks all!

MI

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Might I suggest a 'Baba Yaga' approach?

Spoiler:
We know the lich 'reforms' but we don't know what form this takes. Could the witch appear as an image, unable to interact, but slowly turning more solid?

If the witch does that, than why not give the phylactery to a promising apprentice? Either a collar for her cat familiar, or if she tutors a wizard, his bonded item. That way the magic is explained, it has sentimental value to the bearer, "Granny gave me this ring, she taught me everything I know." "Fluffy's collar is a gift from my mentor." It's easily scryable (and if noticed, the student would likely say "Granny always said she'd watch over me, bless her kind soul.") and, if the lich starts reforming like I said above, then it's a plot hook. "Oh Scott, those evil bandits killed me. Your love brought me back, but you need to look out, those evil bandits might be coming for all my students, and you were my favourite."

Contributor

Malachite Ice wrote:

Some of the suggestions range from sublime to self-defeating. A hiding place needs

  • To be a place where the lich can regenerate safely. This means it has to be large enough for the lich, and it has to contain a spare spellbook (for wizards) and magical components and foci for all casters. Without quick and easy access to those things, the lich is pretty much helpless.
  • Feasible. Not all liches can afford a crypt on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. Besides, that spot's too crowded as it is.
  • Secure. Somewhere the lich can reassure herself that her soul and immortality are safe beyond any reasonable doubt. One of the issues with a lot of the more elaborate suggestions is that there's no way for the lich to check up on the phylactery. I see this as a critical component for pretty much any lich.

Teleportation takes care of a lot of the troubles of getting to places to check up on them. OTOH, Teleportation is also an unfortunate security flaw.

IMHO, a lich's requirements for a "secure" safehouse should be as follow:

  • Unremarkable. If some mage accidentally teleports into into the disused and abandoned storage closet, he should think it really is a disused and abandoned storage closet.

  • Undesirable. Kingdoms come. Kingdoms go. Fashions change. People look for new places to stay. Whatever you hideyhole is, it should be somewhere that no one, even crazy people and creatures, would think of settling into for more than a night. Nothing is more disturbing than going to your hideyhole and finding squatters.

  • Unknown. Do a good search of archives and your own personal history. One trouble is that gossipy bards will find out about your childhood home, your aunt's farm, or that favorite corner of the magical library where you used to sulk. Do not under any circumstances use those places, no matter how secure you think they are. Did you ever tell another soul about them? Then they're not secure. Rather, go look around for a spot where you've never been and have never told anyone about. Do a little research to make sure it's no one else's hideyhole. Then use that spot. It's still not proof against nosey gods and all-seeing oracles, but it will at least keep you safe from bards going an interviewing family members and acquaintances or necromancers getting the dead to chat.


  • Imagine a lich tricking a druidic like character into putting the phalacry (wrapped in lead) into the most beautiful grove in the deepest part of the woods, perhaps in a nymphs tree. With a coffin buried beneath the tree for somewhere to reform. Over time (possibly centuries) the inherient necromantic energies began to twist and pervert the fey. Have fun with those templates. ;-)

    the good (for the lich):
    Before the perversion, no one would ever look here for something as evil as a lich phalactry.

    After the perversion, Guardians. Lots of guardians with no easily discovered source.

    The bad (for the lich)

    after the woods are perverted and sumarily discovered you have to worry about adventures looking for the source of the taint.

    Kind of a cool scene for the DM.

    This sounds like a very witch lich-y thing to do. Think about it.


    Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:



    • Unremarkable ...
    • Undesirable ...
    • Unknown ...
    Not bad additions, although having all of them would be tricky. Although they are all reasonable and good criteria, I don't think they are absolute requirements in the way feasible, secure and provides recovery space are. I can see a hiding place without one of the Un
  • requirements, but not without those.

    MI


  • Go to the Astral plane and find a god's corpse

    Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

    Summon an ice elemental. Have it dig a cavern under the ice near the top of the world. Cast a couple of iron wall spells to build roof and walls for the room, cover the room with protective magics, and hide phylactery in a lead case under a foot of ice in the corner. Then cast iron wall to create a floor. You now have a small protected room with an unscryable phylactery nearby, but hidden. Plus who will think to look under ice?

    The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

    (grin)

    Thomas, if I wee a player and my GM put his lich on ice that way, I wouldn't even bother to try to dig around and search for the phylactery. Rather, I'd put the whole room in an anti-teleportation zone and walk away.

    Next time I kill the lich, I'll ask him if he's read any good books that he might recommend. Cause he's going to reform in a very dark, sealed room from which he'll need a long time to dig himself free, and I imagine that after the first decade or so of clawing away at the iron walls, he'd gain some comfort know that he's at least suggested some reading material with which I could engage my intellect.

    Contributor

    Chris Mortika wrote:

    (grin)

    Thomas, if I wee a player and my GM put his lich on ice that way, I wouldn't even bother to try to dig around and search for the phylactery. Rather, I'd put the whole room in an anti-teleportation zone and walk away.

    Next time I kill the lich, I'll ask him if he's read any good books that he might recommend. Cause he's going to reform in a very dark, sealed room from which he'll need a long time to dig himself free, and I imagine that after the first decade or so of clawing away at the iron walls, he'd gain some comfort know that he's at least suggested some reading material with which I could engage my intellect.

    Any lich who doesn't have Analyze Dweomer and Dispel Magic is an idiot. You're in an anti-teleportation zone? Neutralize it.

    If he's in a hurry, he can use a one-size fits all Wish: "I wish I could teleport out of here."


    Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
    Any lich who doesn't have Analyze Dweomer and Dispel Magic is an idiot. You're in an anti-teleportation zone? Neutralize it.

    Ice is surprisingly fluid, and over a decade or three, the wall-of-iron chamber is going to decouple from the phylactery. Over a longer period of time, even a cube built from wall of iron is going to be crumpled like you'd crumple an empty Red Bull can (assuming you do such things). Take a look at Yosemite's Half-Dome to see just what kind of destruction glacial ice is capable of.

    Of course, the lich might not realize that, in which case said lich is going to be in a world of icy frozen hurt.

    Someday.

    MI


    As Mr. Morris has pointed out, phylacteries are chiefly an element of story. They're an excuse for another adventure, and furthermore, if you read through the Bestiary, while you will find an example of a typical phylactery, there really aren't any hard rules to crafting one beyond being 11th caster level and possessing the craft wondrous items feat.

    KA Murphy has suggested some brilliant ways to innocuously hide a small bauble, but not all phylacteries have to be something you can fit inside a small box. Feel free to take a few creative liberties as the GM, and tailor the form, size, and even function of the phyalactery to the lich in question. So far as I can tell, there's nothing stopping an overly militant lich from making his phylactery a literal fortress. Not too mobile and pretty easy to spot, but it's certainly not going to be easy to destroy, especially if it's been magically reinforced. I can't take credit for this next one, but I believe several years back, there was a drow lich somewhere whose phylactery was an iron golem shaped like a spider. Personally, I love Firest's idea of an actual demiplane serving as a phylactery. Yeah, maybe it's a little bit of a stretch, but these are exactly the kind of vague rules that were made to be stretched. If the lich (and thus his foes) are of sufficiently high level, and the party has the means to destroy a demiplane, the go for it! That could make an awesome adventure, or even campaign.

    There's a myriad of forms a phylactery can take, and while there's nothing wrong with the classic mold of "trinket in a box," you don't need to feel bound to it.


    Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
    Malachite Ice wrote:

    I was statting up a villain - a witch who crossed over into lichdom, and pondering the inevitable three questions: what was her phylactery, where did she keep it, and how was it defended?

    ** spoiler omitted **

    Since Madame Archenko has not been a lich long, has only moderate monetary resources, and her house is relatively secure, it seemed like the right combination for her. Certainly, she wants a more secure hiding place, and one better guarded - but she's enough of an obsessive control freak that she needs to be able to assure herself that her soul remains safe, and that she can be certain her phylactery is untouched.

    Other liches, of course, come up with other solutions to this pressing problem of guarding phylacteries, and I was wondering what other solutions GMs have come up with for liches. And I thought if I were wondering, surely others might, as well.

    Any thoughts?

    MI

    1) Dig an underground room beneath the house (use summon monster for earth elementals or other spells if you don't want workers gossiping about it)

    2) Craft or commission a lead lined coffin

    3) Using the Craft Wondrous Item feat, create an amulet of gentle repose (Use activated/continuous, 2 x 3 x 2000 / 2 = 6,000 gp market price; 3,000 gp creation cost)

    4) Place the coffin, with a corpse wearing the amulet and the phylactery, in the underground room, along with sufficient ritual materials to gain a new familiar (500 gp per witch level) and any other backup items you want to have on your "rebirth" (a scroll of dimension door or a cape of the mountebank might be a good addition, as well as an everbuning torch)

    5) Colapse/fill in access shafts/tunnels so that the only way in and out is by dimension door, etc.

    6) Replace/upgrade the corpse, ritual materials, and backup items as needed


    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Abraham spalding wrote:
    Have a lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is the first lich.

    So... Destroy any one of them and they're all screwed??

    No... destroy one, and he respawns by his phylactery. Meaning he has another lich to guard his still forming body. Once he regrows the lich that uses him for a phylactery now has his phylactery fully formed again.

    It's basically a "heck I need help" network. You get destroyed and two of your 'bestest best friends" know about it... friends that should be as powerful separately as you are.

    Which means when you are finished reforming you have all your information about your attackers, and 5 liches working together to handle the problem.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Then there's the good old purloined letter technique.

    Hide the phylactery in plain sight, among dozens of others. Clay pots in the kitchen. Plain metal swords in the armory. Random large rocks on a boulder-strewn plain. Be a collector of porcelain animal figurines -- most of them are high-value, some of them are figurines of wondrous power, and one of them (but which?) is... something more. PCs hate to destroy treasure, so are they going to destroy all the loot to figure out which one is the real phylactery? (Be sure to put some anti-divination spells on it.)

    Or maybe it isn't one of them. Maybe it's one you sold to a collector in a wealthy city not so far from here. Or maybe it's the one buried in a graveyard a thousand miles away.

    And don't forget to have the Obviously Necromantic Box sitting somewhere in your lair, elaborately warded with dozens of nasty traps and glyphs, and triggered with a magic mouth to scream really convincingly when someone smashes it.

    One lich in one of my campaigns had as his phylactery a sword. A sword specifically advertised as being the Mighty Undead Bane Weapon that could kill vampires, liches, everything. There were rumors generations old about it. Of course he'd planted them, and nourished them, and made it very obvious it was the only weapon he was vulnerable to; it was practically artifact quality. Naturally he kept coming back and back...


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    tonyz wrote:

    Then there's the good old purloined letter technique.

    Hide the phylactery in plain sight, among dozens of others. Clay pots in the kitchen. Plain metal swords in the armory. Random large rocks on a boulder-strewn plain. Be a collector of porcelain animal figurines -- most of them are high-value, some of them are figurines of wondrous power, and one of them (but which?) is... something more. PCs hate to destroy treasure, so are they going to destroy all the loot to figure out which one is the real phylactery? (Be sure to put some anti-divination spells on it.)

    Or maybe it isn't one of them. Maybe it's one you sold to a collector in a wealthy city not so far from here. Or maybe it's the one buried in a graveyard a thousand miles away.

    And don't forget to have the Obviously Necromantic Box sitting somewhere in your lair, elaborately warded with dozens of nasty traps and glyphs, and triggered with a magic mouth to scream really convincingly when someone smashes it.

    One lich in one of my campaigns had as his phylactery a sword. A sword specifically advertised as being the Mighty Undead Bane Weapon that could kill vampires, liches, everything. There were rumors generations old about it. Of course he'd planted them, and nourished them, and made it very obvious it was the only weapon he was vulnerable to; it was practically artifact quality. Naturally he kept coming back and back...

    Oh wow the sword idea is funny but sort of true for him if you destroy the sword.

    Former VP of Finance

    Abraham spalding wrote:
    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Abraham spalding wrote:
    Have a lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is another lich whose phylactery is the first lich.

    So... Destroy any one of them and they're all screwed??

    No... destroy one, and he respawns by his phylactery. Meaning he has another lich to guard his still forming body. Once he regrows the lich that uses him for a phylactery now has his phylactery fully formed again.

    It's basically a "heck I need help" network. You get destroyed and two of your 'bestest best friends" know about it... friends that should be as powerful separately as you are.

    Which means when you are finished reforming you have all your information about your attackers, and 5 liches working together to handle the problem.

    Even if you want to rule that a regenerated lich won't work as a phylactery, there's a simpler and more insidious route to take: the coven simply carries each others phylacteries (ring or necklace or the such).

    "Wow, this lich sure was stupid, wearing her phylactery!"

    Now, you're regenerating, and your two buddies know about the attack. =)

    Sure, the adventurers are bound to get one of the phylacteries, but the chances of more than one of you going down at once is pretty slim. And even if more than one of you goes down at once, it still has to be the right combination for someone to be permanently destroyed.


    tonyz wrote:
    One lich in one of my campaigns had as his phylactery a sword. A sword specifically advertised as being the Mighty Undead Bane Weapon that could kill vampires, liches, everything. There were rumors generations old about it. Of course he'd planted them, and nourished them, and made it very obvious it was the only weapon he was vulnerable to; it was practically artifact quality. Naturally he kept coming back and back...

    That's a good one. To some extent, it depends on the megalomania of the Lich, I suppose. In fiction, Voldemort hosed himself quite thoroughly with his choices - although, at least he did put one of his phylacteries ... er, Horcruxes (Horcruci?) in a safe deposit box. Still, he should have paid more attention to the Evil Overlord Rules :-)

    Thanks,
    MI


    Chris Self wrote:

    Even if you want to rule that a regenerated lich won't work as a phylactery, there's a simpler and more insidious route to take: the coven simply carries each others phylacteries (ring or necklace or the such).

    "Wow, this lich sure was stupid, wearing her phylactery!"

    Now, you're regenerating, and your two buddies know about the attack. =)

    Not only would I rule that a regenerated lich would not work as a phylactery, I would rule that a destroyed phylactery is destroyed. That's the point; putting one's death/soul in a physical object - you're trading one set of dangers (your accidental death / destruction) for another set. It gets destroyed ... too bad. It might be possible to craft another phylactery, but it would have permanent, irreversible and traumatic damage to the lich. (I could compare it to the Horcrux process of Voldemort, where creating the Horcrux did the damage).

    Consequently, although putting the phylactery in the hands of an intelligent agent has many advantages, the danger of exactly what you propose with adventurers finding (and no doubt destroying) the phylactery would seem to be contraindicated.

    Of course, that depends on how the GM thinks of phylacteries. Are they replaceable? My take on that is 'No'.

    YMMV.

    MI

    Contributor

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    I think having phylacteries be replaceable would work if you did it on the Liavek model where every year the mage invests their "luck" in an object, which is effectively their phylactery for that year. They can reinvest it in the original object or change to a new one.

    That said, I'd say forging a new phylactery would be something on the order of the lich's initial "become a lich" ritual so wouldn't be attempted on a whim, or even yearly. But a grand rite the lich needs to perform once every few hundred years? Sure.


    Malachite Ice wrote:


    Of course, that depends on how the GM thinks of phylacteries. Are they replaceable? My take on that is 'No'.

    I would say technically yes, but REALLY REALLY difficult. Much harder to do the second time (or third etc) than the first time.


    Malachite Ice wrote:
    Of course, that depends on how the GM thinks of phylacteries. Are they replaceable? My take on that is 'No'.
    Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
    ... I'd say forging a new phylactery would be something on the order of the lich's initial "become a lich" ritual so wouldn't be attempted on a whim, or even yearly. But a grand rite the lich needs to perform once every few hundred years? Sure.
    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    I would say technically yes, but REALLY REALLY difficult. Much harder to do the second time (or third etc) than the first time.

    Yes, actually, this doesn't seem unreasonable. I suppose what matters is/are the conditions set up with the creation of the phylactery itself. If one thinks of it as a contract, then perhaps the lich doesn't get to set all the terms, and revise them as convenient. Or even if the lich can set the terms ... once the terms are set, the terms are set.

    If the lich must perform a ceremony using water from the Well of Six Virgins as the Clock of the Long Now strikes Midnight every one-hundred eleven years, eleven months, and eleven days at the summit of Mount Remote - he better take some steps to assure the Well remains open, the Clock ticking, and that Mount Remote doesn't turn into Mount Touristtrap!

    It could set up a very amusing adventure (well, amusing for the DM & players, less so for the lich) along the lines of [url="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080731/"]The Fiendish Plot Of Dr. Fu Manchu"] (a hilarious send up of the stunningly rascist 'Fu Manchu' / Yellow Peril tropes).

    Former VP of Finance

    My personal understanding has always been that the soul is simply stored in the phylactery. When the phylactery is destroyed, the soul is released. If the body is still around, it goes back to the body. If it's not, the lich has died.

    Since the rules for phylactery creation are left so intentionally vague, this is, of course, all up to GM discretion. As are any implications of castings of resurrection/reincarnation/etc on a lich after phylactery destruction.


    Chris Self wrote:
    My personal understanding has always been that the soul is simply stored in the phylactery. When the phylactery is destroyed, the soul is released. If the body is still around, it goes back to the body. If it's not, the lich has died.

    That would seem to take much of the fun out of it, even if that interpretation is extremely favorable to the lich. Personally, I prefer the "everyboddy's gotta da problems" approach.

    But yes, of course it is up the GM. Which is why GM's should read threads like these to improve their already ingenious schemes :-)

    MI


    Could you make the Starstone a phylactery?


    i need no phylactery, anyone who finds me even mildly creepy or disturbing is a sufficient phylactery for me. and thus, everybody is my phylactery. there is always somebody who will be disturbed by me. and this makes my life eternal.


    Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
    i need no phylactery, anyone who finds me even mildly creepy or disturbing is a sufficient phylactery for me. and thus, everybody is my phylactery. there is always somebody who will be disturbed by me. and this makes my life eternal.

    If being generally off put by someone is enough to make you function as their phylactery, then I'm afraid we have an immortal Charlie Sheen on our hands...


    martinaj wrote:
    Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
    i need no phylactery, anyone who finds me even mildly creepy or disturbing is a sufficient phylactery for me. and thus, everybody is my phylactery. there is always somebody who will be disturbed by me. and this makes my life eternal.
    If being generally off put by someone is enough to make you function as their phylactery, then I'm afraid we have an immortal Charlie Sheen on our hands...

    Winning!

    Contributor

    Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
    i need no phylactery, anyone who finds me even mildly creepy or disturbing is a sufficient phylactery for me. and thus, everybody is my phylactery. there is always somebody who will be disturbed by me. and this makes my life eternal.

    So you're hiding your soul in a frisson of horripilation that others have when they know of your existence or actively view you? Intriguing, but expunging your name from the history books then having a few emotionless golems going on autopilot to destroy you a generation or so later seems more than sufficient. Heck, if someone has a more pressing need to get rid of you, a suitably worded Wish could do a global Modify Memory so everyone forgot about you except the caster, who could then just target himself with a Calm Emotions spell and set his golems on autopilot.


    martinaj wrote:
    Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
    i need no phylactery, anyone who finds me even mildly creepy or disturbing is a sufficient phylactery for me. and thus, everybody is my phylactery. there is always somebody who will be disturbed by me. and this makes my life eternal.
    If being generally off put by someone is enough to make you function as their phylactery, then I'm afraid we have an immortal Charlie Sheen on our hands...

    The horror...The horror..


    Upon further consideration as a lich I thinK i would put my phalactry in the nasties most inhospitable place (for mortals, but not me) I could find. The coldest part of the highest mountain range in the great north ice fields. Where most would die just trying to reach the location if they knew of it.


    I've always been a fan of putting the phylactery inside of a guardian, such as a golem or the party warforged that didn't want to write up a background for his character. With Bestiary 2 out, the adamantine golem looks interesting...

    This topic makes me think of a reoccurring evil mastermind in one of my past games, an infernal duke who would turn anyone a lich-like immortal if they signed a contract with him. The catch? He chose the phylactery, and thanks to his unique ability to hold a nearly limitless number of souls within him, he made himself the phylactery of everyone he made a pact with. After signing, he would point to the fine print that mentioned that as a result of his modified lichification ritual, if he died, any lich with him as a phylactery would die as well. As a result, he had an army of unwilling lich bodyguards.


    Chris Mortika wrote:

    Are we looking at this from a lich-as-player-character perspective, or from a GM's perspective?

    As a player, I can come up with some hiding places that are pretty much fool-proof.

    As a GM, I want a lich's phylactery to be:

    • Certainly findable after one or two passes. After the arch-villain returns once or twice, the party should be able to realize that he keeps coming from the serpentfolk city of Ilmurea. Kill him before he leaves there, and trace his phylactery to the filthy morlock warrens beneath the training academy.
    • Remote enough to allow the vulnerable lich to reform. That's the big problem I see with "a gold dragon's skull" or "the crown of the King of Varisia." A gold dragon will notice a lich forming next to her, and will kill it over and over. Any kingdom that allows a nascent lich to reassemble itself next to the sovereign has to be a pretty nasty kingdom.
    • Hidden in a place where the search will be a fun adventure.
    • Representative of some aspect of the lich's personality. The best thing about the flour keg is that it tells you something about the personality of the witch. On the other hand, what does it say about a mage who keeps his phylactery and a chest full of money and useful magic items in a locked chest at the bottom of the sea? What sort of genii-binding mystic bargains with efreet to keep his phylactery secure in the City of Brass?

    If the party is going proactively lich-hunting, an outstanding Gather Information check or some magical divinations ought to guide them on their way to attempt to retrieve the phylactery before confronting its owner.

    +1

    Dark Archive

    Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


  • Unknown. Do a good search of archives and your own personal history. One trouble is that gossipy bards will find out about your childhood home, your aunt's farm, or that favorite corner of the magical library where you used to sulk. Do not under any circumstances use those places, no matter how secure you think they are. Did you ever tell another soul about them? Then...
  • Sounds like a Good Start to a "Vs. and Evil Lich Campaign."

    You are highered to investigate a Rash of attacks on local temples/ Libraries where the only onle Damage is a bu nch of Burned/missing books/ scrolls. It will eventually build up to a famous local bard being killed for the info he knows about the either Newly formed lich, or soon-to-be lich

    Dark Archive

    You could also cast Permanent Magic Aura on the phylactery and then use Stone Shape to put it in a pillar or something. You could even Polymorph Any Object the phylactery into a rock or something, so that it is a hidden part of the pillar.


    Dyrr kept his surrounded by dozens of wards, and as the spring for a trap which would collapse his tower, killing any who succeeded in breaking it.

    Mine keeps his in a lead-lined container on the moon, surrounded by antimagic barriers. Breathe in space without magic, mortals.


    Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


    Heck, make the whole strand into a magic item. If someone proudly destroys the magic item and pearls go bouncing everywhere, the general assumption will be that the adventurers picked the wrong item for the phylactery, not that the phylactery was strung with other pearls on an enchanted string.

    The problem with this one is what if the adventurers who killed you do the whole adventurer thing and just loot your magic necklace. Then your body will reform in the middle of a party of adventurers, which kind of gives away the game.

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