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A harpy's song has the power to infect the minds of those that hear it, calling them to the harpy's side. When a harpy sings, all creatures aside from other harpies within a 300-foot spread must succeed on a DC 16 Will saving throw or become captivated. A creature that successfully saves is not subject to the same harpy's song for 24 hours. A victim under the effects of the captivating song moves toward the harpy using the most direct means available. If the path leads them into a dangerous area such as through fire or off a cliff, that creature receives a second saving throw to end the effect before moving into peril. Captivated creatures can take no actions other than to defend themselves. A victim within 5 feet of the harpy simply stands and offers no resistance to the harpy's attacks. This effect continues for as long as the harpy sings and for 1 round thereafter. This is a sonic mind-affecting charm effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.
First, what kind of action is used to maintain the song? I'm guessing it is a standard action, but the given text does not say.
Second, if a PC must spend multiple rounds in a hazardous area, such as swimming in deep water, are they entitled to save each round, or only when they enter the hazard?
I want to challenge PCs here, not drown them all.
I'm pretty sure it's a free action to sustain, just like a bardic performance. But if I'm wrong, someone will be by to correct me soon. :)
They don't specify. Not having specified, it's a standard action to start a song.
Once initiated, it should be a free action ton continue singing, just as a bard can continue their songs as a free action.
In other words, I agree with Joana. :)
Also, should multiple rounds of moving through a hazard allow a save each round?
If the path leads them into a dangerous area such as through fire or off a cliff, that creature receives a second saving throw to end the effect before moving into peril.
Note it says they get a second saving throw to end the effect before moving into the peril. Once he's in it, he's not moving into it anymore, he's already in it. I'd say no. At that point, he's too far under to care anymore. I wouldn't even allow another save if he moves out of the first peril and into a second, since he's already gone through one peril to get to the harpy and failed that second roll.
Would moving adjacent to the harpy itself be considered a perilous area? Once there you'd offer no resistance to its attacks - does that mean Helpless condition and the opportunity for coup attacks? (From the harpy, at least.)
It's not an inherently dangerous area (such as a lava field or cliff). But yes, you are open to being attacked, by the harpy or her friends. However, you are not helpless, and not valid for a coup-de-gras, because the ability says you will defend yourself, therefore, you get your dex modifier, shield modifiers, etc. You can defend, but nothing else. So you could go into full defense and just listen, but eventually as long as she's singing, you're dead.
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From the Rules:
Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
A harpy song is a supernatural abililty so, yeah, standard action and all the good stuff being supernatural means.
Here's my take on the whole coup thing. This is kind of a big issue for me right now because the party I'm DMing just ran into a murder of harpies. A harpy-charmed creature is helpless to the harpy who has charmed that creature. It will defend itself from anything attempting to prevent it from reaching said harpy, but will not defend itself from attacks made by that harpy. It will try to circumvent dangerous terrain but, if it cannot safely bypass a dangerous area, it gets a second save before it begins to trudge through that tar pit or acid bath or whatever. The charmed creature can be struck dead by the charming harpy at her leisure so long as the creature remains charmed, but I allow the creature to defend itself from the attacks of other creatures even while at the feet of the charming harpy.
From what I can tell, a harpy must use a standard action to sing every round.
"A victim within 5 feet of the harpy simply stands and offers no resistance to the harpy's attacks. "
Sounds like the harpy (and only that harpy) can use the coup de grace on a victim.
Nasty.
Harpy with a scythe - Very nasty!
From what I can tell, a harpy must use a standard action to sing every round.
"A victim within 5 feet of the harpy simply stands and offers no resistance to the harpy's attacks. "
Sounds like the harpy (and only that harpy) can use the coup de grace on a victim.Nasty.
Harpy with a scythe - Very nasty!
You do realize, don't you, that by your interpretation, both the Harpy and the victim(s) will die of starvation? This is because if the Harpy is required to spend a standard action each turn to keep the singing up, then either she has to stop to attack, which means if she caught more than one person she's the center of a sword fest? Or she has to restart the song and hope they all fall back under after watching their friend go down. This is because she can't continue to sing and still make a coup, or an attack by your interpretation, and the ability only lasts one round after stopping.
This is because she can't continue to sing and still make a coup, or an attack by your interpretation, and the ability only lasts one round after stopping.
Correct.
We are talking about a CR 4 creature coup de gracing someone after a single failed save. She might then be able to do the same thing to other characters. A group of harpies could coup de grace TPK fairly easily however.
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I don't discount the fact that it's a deadly combination, but there's nothing written that says a creature has to stop using a freely maintained supernatural ability to perform a full-round action. As a GM who doesn't like to TPK my players, I would likely give the party another saving throw after witnessing the horrible murder (or attempted murder) of their companion if the entire group was charmed. There's nothing in the rules that says I can't do that either.
For a group of harpies, the way I play it, every harpy involved in the combat would need to charm every member of the party if they all wanted to coup every party member. A party member may fall victim to one harpy's song but not the songs of any others meaning that character would not be helpless against the other harpies. A TPK is still possible but, like I said, I'd probably give my players a fair shot at getting out of it.
This is because she can't continue to sing and still make a coup, or an attack by your interpretation, and the ability only lasts one round after stopping.Correct.
We are talking about a CR 4 creature coup de gracing someone after a single failed save. She might then be able to do the same thing to other characters. A group of harpies could coup de grace TPK fairly easily however.
Unable to defend =/= helpless. There's nothing in there that says the are helpless, just that they don't defend against the harpy. Unless they are helpless, I would say they cannot be coup-de-graced, just attacked.
And yes, I'd give them a new saving throw when they take damage.
One is normally resisting attacks. That's why someone can't line the shot up and cut your throat. If someone offers no resistance to an agressor's attacks, than the blade is going across the throat or through the visor
I'm not sure that is what the 3.0 game devs meant for the harpy's ability to do, but that text has been the same since 2000.
You can't coup de grace a stunned character; I don't see why you should be able to do so to a character who is merely "not defending himself." By RAW, there are specific conditions which render a character "helpless": paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. If Captivating Song were meant to render characters helpless, the devs could easily have spelled it out in the description; that they chose not to, indicates to me that captivated characters are not helpless.
I was wondering about this stuff as well since I'm running a harpy encounter shortly as part of Encounter at Blackwall Keep in AoW. The explanation of this ability isn't well done. I wish they had clarified several things in it.
If it was a standard action to maintain the song it would make it kind of useless to the harpy, as it wouldn't be able to attack its captivated opponents. I'm going to go with some of the others on this thread and assume it will be a free action to maintain and a standard action to activate.
The part about characters only defending themselves while moving towards the harpy is unclear as well. I'm going to assume that means they take double moves to try and reach the harpy, but retain their full AC since they are defending themselves.
The part where it says, "A victim within 5 feet of the harpy simply stands and offers no resistance to the harpy's attacks." is also unclear. To me that sounds like helpless since the first sentence of the helpless condition states: "A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy." To me offering no resistance to attacks sounds like it would fit under the category of "completely at an opponent's mercy." A harpy doesn't do huge damage, so a character stands a shot of surviving a "coup-de-grace" from a harpy, but that is still pretty potent. I think a second save after suffering such an attack from a harpy is in order if the character is still alive.
It would be nice to have an official ruling on this one, since the text leaves so much open to interpretation by the GM.
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The entire purpose of the harpy's ability is to draw someone in, get them to just stand there, and then splatter them.
There seems to be some confusion upthread, but the harpy's song costs a standard action every round. However, once she stops, note that the ability says it lasts for one more round. That means she has exactly one turn where the victim is still captivated and she can attack. (And honestly, if it were a free action to maintain, why would it last for an extra round after she stopped?)
This is confirmed as the intent by Creative Director James Jacobs:
Correct; if no action is given, it's a standard action. If the harpy wants to sing more than one round, she needs to take additional standard actions in the rounds that follow to keep singing.
The way it's supposed to work is that the harpy lures a victim close, then attacks. It lasts 1 additional round, giving the harpy a free round to attack the foe, essentially, after which she can flee or keep attacking or start singing again or whatever.
If you think about it, that's the classic image: the harpy is singing, and not doing much else, while the entranced victim starts walking towards her. She just keeps singing and he just keeps approaching. Then, after he's right there with her, she turns nasty but it's too late for him.
As for whether she can CdG the victim, that's less clear. I personally think that yes, she can.
Picture it: She's what, CR4? So a party of four 4th-level PCs against a single harpy. She starts singing. Worst case scenario, every single PC fails their save. Which is kinda ridiculous, but whatever. So they all approach and she does nothing else but sing. Once they're all adjacent to her, she CdG's one PC. The HP damage won't kill them, so it's Fort or die. But that also means she's stopped maintaining her song, so after the CdG, the rest of the party attacks and pretty much overwhelms her.
In anything but the worst-case scenario, only some of the party fails their saves, and the rest of the party can attack the harpy with complete impunity because she has to spend her standard actions maintaining the song. If she does get the victim to her side and reach her next turn without dying, the PCs can still try and get their ally out of CdG range - a simple bull rush, drag or reposition maneuver will do it (and won't be hard against a captivated PC).
Sounds good. I'll go with standard action to maintain, but an opponent that is captivated and within 5' of the harpy will be helpless against her attack, but she'll need to drop the song and use that final round for the attack or coup de grace.
This is because she can't continue to sing and still make a coup, or an attack by your interpretation, and the ability only lasts one round after stopping.Correct.
We are talking about a CR 4 creature coup de gracing someone after a single failed save. She might then be able to do the same thing to other characters. A group of harpies could coup de grace TPK fairly easily however.
Unable to defend =/= helpless. There's nothing in there that says the are helpless, just that they don't defend against the harpy. Unless they are helpless, I would say they cannot be coup-de-graced, just attacked.
And yes, I'd give them a new saving throw when they take damage.
Where is the difference really?
If they don't defend themselves and the harpy can keep singing as a free action, she just takes a few rounds to claw them to death instead of a single CDG.
Also remember, Harpies in general aren't solitary creatures. They usually live in tribes.
So one or two harpies sing, the others slaughter the humans. Sure they can defend against that, but they won't actually attack them in return.
So might take a little longer, but still, dead humans.
If you make it a free action, then it's "failed willsave = dead" even against a single harpy.
You can't compare it to the Bardic Performance since BP is a couple of magnitudes less powerful compared to that.
As to what a harpy can do to kill a group of adventurers that way?
She can still move and fly. Sing, keep flying over dangerous terrain, let the adventurers die to the hazards. They will cross rivers for her, they'll try to jump ravines, etc. Eventually one of them is bound to fail and get swept away by the river or fall to their death or something.
In the senario I'm running the PCs are raiding the lair of a lizardfolk tribe (see Dungeon 126) and there are a pair of harpies set up as guards. In my situation the lizardfolk already know they are coming so the harpies are stationed in the trees growing on the top of the great mound that lair is built into. When the PCs approach the harpies start singing and lure them towards the heroes. I have a pit trap set up at the base of the mound that captivated PCs will encounter as they make their way to the harpies.
Since the pit trap is covered and not easily noticeable I'm not sure if I'm going to give the PC triggering the trap a save for walking into dangerous terrain, since he won't realize its dangerous until the trap is triggered. Subsequent PCs to approach the pit will get such a save.
I'm wondering if a PC triggering the pit trap should still get a reflex save to avoid it, since he's captivated and not really paying attention. Maybe he should get a Will save, as he triggers the trap to suddenly come to his senses, and if he makes that then he can attempt a Reflex save. Or if I do allow the reflex save I'll probably give a -4 penalty since he's captivated.
After falling into the pit trap, I imagine I should give the PC a save to shake off the song.
fwiw I am in the standard action to maintain and CdG yes camps.
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Of if there are the same number of harpies and PCs, and each PC fails to save against at least one song...
This has always bugged me. My solution has been that once you save then no harpy songs can affect you for the rest of the day. I also have the PCs only save once.
But I don't make it too easy. My group just fought a group of harpies who were attacking shipping. The leader had the simple advanced template and a +2 DC to her song save. So I only had them save against her. Very fun fight.
I did AoW too recently, almost had a TPK, way I did it, the harpy's maintained as a swift action, coup de grace is a full round action, so they couldn't maintain song after the coup de grace. the harpy's could keep doing normal attacks all day long, but I figured as intelligent creatures they'd go for the quick kill and fly away to safety, not stay there and keep getting hit.
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