The Archetype stacking rules are a bit confusing. Do any of the Archetypes stack with the Zen archer?
No.
The way it works is, with archetypes, certain class abilities get replaced with a special archetype ability.
Now, if the same class ability gets replaced in two different archetypes, then you can't stack those archetypes.
Hope this helps.
The Archetype stacking rules are a bit confusing. Do any of the Archetypes stack with the Zen archer?None of the archetypes stack with Zen archer. But you can get a drunken master, of the 4 winds on the sacred mountain and have a good ole time.
Heh.. Hello MR DM!
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Heh.. Hello MR DM!The Archetype stacking rules are a bit confusing. Do any of the Archetypes stack with the Zen archer?None of the archetypes stack with Zen archer. But you can get a drunken master, of the 4 winds on the sacred mountain and have a good ole time.
Lol didn't realize who I was relying to.
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Heh.. Hello MR DM!The Archetype stacking rules are a bit confusing. Do any of the Archetypes stack with the Zen archer?None of the archetypes stack with Zen archer. But you can get a drunken master, of the 4 winds on the sacred mountain and have a good ole time.
Lol didn't realize who I was replying to.
I wish. I want to get rid of the Diamond Soul ability somehow, but I can't so I figure multiclassing out of monk is effective somewhere after levels 9 through 12. You don't miss out on too much anyway; more speed, a little more AC, another attack at -10 BAB, and some okay abilities, but nothing to be sorely missed.
I like these options a lot, but try to avoid missing more than 1 BAB overall.
Inquisitor could be nice for 2 levels or so. (Actually, its not a terrible mix in any proportion. ZAM 12/Inquisitor 8; ZAM 3 Inquistor 17 are respectable.) 2 levels would let you add Wis to initiative and get some other handy abilities. (Travel domain for extra ridiculous speed and mobility? Law domain for a handy trick? Take your pick. Judgment? Sure why not.)
Wizard could be a nice 1 level dip, depending on how you stack BAB. (i.e. If 2 levels of inquisitor is 1.5 BAB and wizard is .5 BAB, you have 2 BAB; house-ruled often, but not official?) Just specialize in Divination and take the Foresight Subdomain and you pick up some really nice abilities. (Always act during the surprise round and slight Init bonus; as a free action, you get to make a d20 roll and use it as a replacement for any roll you would make in the upcoming round; Finally, some limited casting ability if you can muster at least 11 Int. Cast Enlarge Person on yourself for the extra reach and such! Prepare Silent Image and other spells that remain good at all levels.)
Rogue is always a fine dip for the extra sneak attack damage. ...and being a ZAM, you're a flanker! Sniper Rogue is probably ideal. (Once again, depending on how you stack BAB, this option improves. 2 Inquistor/2 Rogue means 3 BAB, inquistor stuff, sneak attack, evasion, and a talent. Nice!)
Shadowdancer makes for a decent prestige dip as well. By 2nd level, you pick up Hide in Plain Sight, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Darkvision
As for Prestige Classes, Horizon Walker and Stalwart Defender aren't too difficult to meet the requirements for. If you're an Elf or Half-Elf and you took the Wizard dip, you qualify to be an Arcane Archer, which has some okay abilities. Also boosts your caster level a bit if you like the additional utility. Of course the most important feature to you is the full BAB.
Kind of odd, but Duelist is an alright choice. Full BAB, Bonuses to AC so long as you have a large enough Int modifier (you might need an Int boosting headband at this point), other nice bonuses like bonus Init, Bonus reflex, and a second mobility. You do have take Weapon Finesse, which is probably useless.
Maybe you had something else entirely in mind, in which case my post isn't much help. Regardless, good luck!
Also; ROFL @ GM meeting player in forums. xD
I don't know if you are interested, or if your DM allows custom content, but since you are considering a ZAM/Inquisitor build, here is a divine version of the Arcane Archer I intend to take for my ZAM/Inquisitor character, when I qualify:
I reworked the Arcane Archer to use divine-themed abilities.
Randy
Growing Up Gamers
I wish. I want to get rid of the Diamond Soul ability somehow, but I can't so I figure multiclassing out of monk is effective somewhere after levels 9 through 12. You don't miss out on too much anyway; more speed, a little more AC, another attack at -10 BAB, and some okay abilities, but nothing to be sorely missed.
A bit off topic, but why would you want to get rid of diamond soul? It's one of the monk's best abilities, assuming he continues as a monk...
I wish. I want to get rid of the Diamond Soul ability somehow, but I can't so I figure multiclassing out of monk is effective somewhere after levels 9 through 12. You don't miss out on too much anyway; more speed, a little more AC, another attack at -10 BAB, and some okay abilities, but nothing to be sorely missed.A bit off topic, but why would you want to get rid of diamond soul? It's one of the monk's best abilities, assuming he continues as a monk...
Maybe its because I haven't played d&d enough to know how it turns out in practice... But in my mind, I envision my friends trying to buff me and my spell resistance preventing them from doing so. ...and suppressing the resistance isn't always an ideal course of action. Meh. Maybe I should just get over it and try for Monk 20. xP
I wish. I want to get rid of the Diamond Soul ability somehow, but I can't so I figure multiclassing out of monk is effective somewhere after levels 9 through 12. You don't miss out on too much anyway; more speed, a little more AC, another attack at -10 BAB, and some okay abilities, but nothing to be sorely missed.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
just a little nit-pick, but you can't be a Bar/monk, Barb requires any Non-lawful alignment, Monk requires any lawful.
Now i don't have a copy of ultimate magic yet ( :) ), so this is mostly speculative, but people in my games are already asking about it. It seems to me that any abilities that don't get replaced are stacked
Lets say we have an alchemist who wants to take the new alchemist archetype Vivisectionist. That loses bombs but gets sneak attack damage.
If you are Alchemist 3/Vivisectionist 3, would it be correct that you get 2d6 for bombs, 2d6 for sneak attacks, and casts extracts / mutagens as if he was a lv 6.
You can't multiclass archtypes like that. If the alchemist would have to be a full Alchemist or a full Vivisectionist, not half and half.
Does this exist somewhere in RAW or is this an opinion?
Read the section on Archetypes in the APG. It's spelled out quite clearly. You can only take a second archetype if it does not modify any class features that are modified by the first. In other words archetypes only stack if they do not overlap. In the Zen Archer's case you have to take a look at all the class features the archetype modifies all the way to level 20. Finding an archetype that does not step on one of the ZA's toes is going to be rather difficult, maybe impossible.You can't multiclass archtypes like that. If the alchemist would have to be a full Alchemist or a full Vivisectionist, not half and half.Does this exist somewhere in RAW or is this an opinion?
On Page 72 of apg:
When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here.
IMHO when a character selects a class any time they level.
The next paragraph states that you can be both a X/Y architype in the same level if they do not overlap. This doesnt appear to stop the below paladin from being at level 5:Paladin 2/(undead scourge & warrior of the holylight) 3
A character can take more than one archetype and
garner additional alternate class features, but none of
the alternate class features can replace or alter the same
class feature from the core class as another alternate
class feature. For example, a paladin could not be both
a hospitaler and an undead scourge since they both
modify the smite evil class feature and both replace the
aura of justice class feature. A paladin could, however,
be both an undead scourge and a warrior of the holy
light, since none of their new class features replace the
same core class feature.
Read the section on Archetypes in the APG. It's spelled out quite clearly. You can only take a second archetype if it does not modify any class features that are modified by the first. In other words archetypes only stack if they do not overlap. In the Zen Archer's case you have to take a look at all the class features the archetype modifies all the way to level 20. Finding an archetype that does not step on one of the ZA's toes is going to be rather difficult, maybe impossible.You can't multiclass archtypes like that. If the alchemist would have to be a full Alchemist or a full Vivisectionist, not half and half.Does this exist somewhere in RAW or is this an opinion?
I don't think thats quite the point. I know its raw, but you can't multiclass archetypes. Consider:
Fighter 2/Archer Fighter 2/Crossbowman Fighter 2/Free Hand Fighter 2/Mobile Fighter 2/...
No, you can't do that and get a bajillion feats and get your favored class bonus for all of them, and... Whatever. It would be cheesy.
EDIT: Or dipping into 1 level of every kind of Barbarian to become the fastest character in the world. xP
I don't think thats quite the point. I know its raw, but you can't multiclass archetypes. Consider:
Fighter 2/Archer Fighter 2/Crossbowman Fighter 2/Free Hand Fighter 2/Mobile Fighter 2/...
No, you can't do that and get a bajillion feats and get your favored class bonus for all of them, and... Whatever. It would be cheesy.
EDIT: Or dipping into 1 level of every kind of Barbarian to become the fastest character in the world. xP
"Fighter 2/Archer Fighter 2/Crossbowman Fighter 2/Free Hand Fighter 2/Mobile Fighter 2"
Would be a level 10 character, without any feats accessible above a level 2 character for any given archetype. They would have lots of little feats, but i don't think that's anything to worry about.
I've got a character in my game now going rogue/barbarian/fighter and he's finding its not as good of an idea as he initially thought as his access to higher level feats and abilities in each class is delayed.
--edited for clarity
Its simple:
Archtypes modify a class.
You can not multi-class a class with itself.
Ergo you can not multi-class an archtype with the base class it modifies.
RAW good sir. If you have a page number i can show to my players to support this please let me know.
I dont have a digital copy of the core rule book, but im fairly certain that every time you level you can pick a class of your choice. The APG says when you pick a class you can pick an archetype for that class.
If you could be a cleric 2/ cleric 2, and be a cleric of iomidae and a cleric of erastil (and have 4 domains, etc.) then you could multiclass archetypes.
But since you cannot multiclass to the same class (you can't be paladin 3/paladin 2) you can't multiclass archetypes of the same class, because that's what the archetypes are, small variations of a class.
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RAW good sir. If you have a page number i can show to my players to support this please let me know.You can not multi-class a class with itself.
Ergo you can not multi-class an archtype with the base class it modifies.
Core rulebook, page 30.
"Instead of gaining the abilities granted by the next level in your character's current class, he can instead gain the 1st-level abilities of a new class, adding all of those abilities to his existing ones."
Emphasis mine.
When you gain a level, you either gain the next level in a class you already have, or you pick up a new class. If you are a 1st level alchemist, you can be a 2nd level alchemist, or a 1st level alchemist, 1st level something new. You can't take another 1st level of alchemist, because that's not a new class.
RAW good sir. If you have a page number i can show to my players to support this please let me know.You can not multi-class a class with itself.
Ergo you can not multi-class an archtype with the base class it modifies.
Core rulebook, page 30.
"Instead of gaining the abilities granted by the next level in your character's current class, he can instead gain the 1st-level abilities of a new class, adding all of those abilities to his existing ones."
Emphasis mine.
When you gain a level, you either gain the next level in a class you already have, or you pick up a new class. If you are a 1st level alchemist, you can be a 2nd level alchemist, or a 1st level alchemist, 1st level something new. You can't take another 1st level of alchemist, because that's not a new class.
Perfect, that is exactly what i was looking for!
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All of the above being said, you can have multiple archetypes - A Skirmisher Guide Ranger, for instance, or a Drunken Master Weapon Adept Monk. As long as the archetype abilities being replaced don't overlap, then you can have multiple archetypes. So you would be a 5th-level ranger that has replaced certain ranger abilities for other ranger abilities.
With a quick check, for a monk the variant Sacred Mountain could fit with 4 winds or Healing Hands or Empty Hand (not a combo of any of these).
So...
Monk of the Four Sacred Mountain Winds,
Monk of the Sacred Healing Hands of the Mountain or
Empty Sacred Mountain Handed Monk
are options!