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And not to offer this as an excuse, it isn't. But believe me that fans aren't the only ones that get stiffed sometimes. I'm sure there are authors and artists out there who can tell you stories about PUBLISHED products that they have never been properly paid for. That's probably way more common than the project the fan...
Thankfully I've never had that happen to me yet! (goes off to find some wood to knock on ...)
Chief Technical Officer
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I've only pre-ordered from a few companies:
Paizo
Chaosium
Frog God Games
Adamant
Open DesignPaizo and Frog God Games have been pretty experiences that I can't complain about. Sure, I always want it quicker, if not NOW, but I feel safe pre-ordering from these guys that I WILL get the product, and it WILL be approximately on time....
I'd just like to point out that we don't charge for preorders on paizo.com until we ship your order, so they're risk-free.
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One of the biggest projects that I wrote for that never came out was a project that TSR was developing back around 1990 which was going to be a beginner's book on roleplaying games. They went around to all of the famous people in the game industry and got them each to take on a topic or two (or three). I got three chapters myself, doing the "Introduction to Roleplaying Games," "How to Make An Adventure," and "How To Use A Published Adventure." When the book got canned for some reason, TSR gave me back the rights to the articles. I then sold the latter two to Dragon Magazine, and they came out in issues #198 and #200. The Introduction to Roleplaying Games was on the WotC website for a while, though I can't find it now. Pierce (our Sales Manager) has used it to educate buyers at the book stores. Maybe I will see about getting that Intro article posted on paizo.com. It would be nice to have a repository for it and perhaps it will serve a purpose when the Beginner's Box comes out.
-Lisa
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One of the biggest projects that I wrote for that never came out was a project that TSR was developing back around 1990 which was going to be a beginner's book on roleplaying games. They went around to all of the famous people in the game industry and got them each to take on a topic or two (or three). I got three chapters myself, doing the "Introduction to Roleplaying Games," "How to Make An Adventure," and "How To Use A Published Adventure." When the book got canned for some reason, TSR gave me back the rights to the articles. I then sold the latter two to Dragon Magazine, and they came out in issues #198 and #200. The Introduction to Roleplaying Games was on the WotC website for a while, though I can't find it now. Pierce (our Sales Manager) has used it to educate buyers at the book stores. Maybe I will see about getting that Intro article posted on paizo.com. It would be nice to have a repository for it and perhaps it will serve a purpose when the Beginner's Box comes out.
-Lisa
I'd love to see that!
I got three chapters myself, doing the "Introduction to Roleplaying Games," "How to Make An Adventure," and "How To Use A Published Adventure." When the book got canned for some reason, TSR gave me back the rights to the articles. I then sold the latter two to Dragon Magazine, and they came out in issues #198 and #200. The Introduction to Roleplaying Games was on the WotC website for a while, though I can't find it now. Pierce (our Sales Manager) has used it to educate buyers at the book stores. Maybe I will see about getting that Intro article posted on paizo.com. It would be nice to have a repository for it and perhaps it will serve a purpose when the Beginner's Box comes out.
-Lisa
Based on the article/chapter titles, it sounds like al three would be useful to beginners (and not so beginners, too). I think it would be a god idea to post them at the Paizo website, and link to them from the Pathfinder beginner box product page.
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Both of my first gaming publications (c.1999-2001) went into limbo:
Lindon for MERP-- went away when they lost the license.
and Lands of Tristram for Pendragon (Green Knight, which went under).
It was a rough experience for a newbie. I was up to my neck in grad school at the time and it meant I didn't try to get back in the game of writing until very recently. But it looks like next year you'll see my name on something...
So that's what happened to it!
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CEO
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Based on the article/chapter titles, it sounds like al three would be useful to beginners (and not so beginners, too). I think it would be a god idea to post them at the Paizo website, and link to them from the Pathfinder beginner box product page.I got three chapters myself, doing the "Introduction to Roleplaying Games," "How to Make An Adventure," and "How To Use A Published Adventure." When the book got canned for some reason, TSR gave me back the rights to the articles. I then sold the latter two to Dragon Magazine, and they came out in issues #198 and #200. The Introduction to Roleplaying Games was on the WotC website for a while, though I can't find it now. Pierce (our Sales Manager) has used it to educate buyers at the book stores. Maybe I will see about getting that Intro article posted on paizo.com. It would be nice to have a repository for it and perhaps it will serve a purpose when the Beginner's Box comes out.
-Lisa
Well, I can't post the first two about making and using adventures, because I later sold them back to TSR to use in Dragon Magazines 198 and 200. But the Intro to RPGs is all mine, so we could post that somewhere.
-Lisa
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I got three chapters myself, doing the "Introduction to Roleplaying Games," "How to Make An Adventure," and "How To Use A Published Adventure."Based on the article/chapter titles, it sounds like al three would be useful to beginners (and not so beginners, too). I think it would be a god idea to post them at the Paizo website, and link to them from the Pathfinder beginner box product page.Well, I can't post the first two about making and using adventures, because I later sold them back to TSR to use in Dragon Magazines 198 and 200. But the Intro to RPGs is all mine, so we could post that somewhere.
It's a good topic to pick up again, and a great idea to tie it in with the beginners box. There are brand spanking new 'famous people' too. I wonder if other folks would be interested in contributing new articles?
Thanks Owen.
That's it (and thanks to Owen as well!).
The intent was that this would be available for sale outside of the patronage/Kickstarter project at a $39.95 price point.
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Aww, thanks my man. What did you think?For the benefit of anyone else out there risking serious facial injury, I meant to say that I have ordered a copy of Snows of an Early Winter, a Call of Cthulhu supplement written by Louis Agresta and published by Super Genius Games.
I thought it was very good.
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I so wanted this book to come out. I own everything that WotC and Green Ronin decided to publish for d20 Modern. I think I even offered a bribe to someone who worked on it to get a copy of the shelved manuscript....
And d20 Spectaculars, though that wasn't quite finished...
I've certainly been offered bribes for peaks at this project. Some more NSFW than others. But I know for a fact the final manuscript was never finished, so there's nothing worth being bribed for, more's the pity.
Contributor
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And not to offer this as an excuse, it isn't. But believe me that fans aren't the only ones that get stiffed sometimes. I'm sure there are authors and artists out there who can tell you stories about PUBLISHED products that they have never been properly paid for. That's probably way more common than the project the fan...Thankfully I've never had that happen to me yet! (goes off to find some wood to knock on ...)
Oh yeah. I'm a member of this club too.
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I thought it was very good.Aww, thanks my man. What did you think?For the benefit of anyone else out there risking serious facial injury, I meant to say that I have ordered a copy of Snows of an Early Winter, a Call of Cthulhu supplement written by Louis Agresta and published by Super Genius Games.
Thanks!
I'd just like to point out that we don't charge for preorders on paizo.com until we ship your order, so they're risk-free.
I don't know how other folks' card services agreements are handled but ours prohibits us from charging cards until we ship a product. Any pre-order arranged with us is a "gentleman's agreement", not a sale, until the product is ready and in a mailer.
M
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I've certainly been offered bribes for peaks at this project. Some more NSFW than others. But I know for a fact the final manuscript was never finished, so there's nothing worth being bribed for, more's the pity.I so wanted this book to come out. I own everything that WotC and Green Ronin decided to publish for d20 Modern. I think I even offered a bribe to someone who worked on it to get a copy of the shelved manuscript....
And d20 Spectaculars, though that wasn't quite finished...
NOW you've done it...you're supposed to take the NSFW bribe and then hand over what you've got...if it amounts to nothing, that's their problem. You held up your end of the bargain. <pun pun>
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I've certainly been offered bribes for peaks at this project. Some more NSFW than others. But I know for a fact the final manuscript was never finished, so there's nothing worth being bribed for, more's the pity.I so wanted this book to come out. I own everything that WotC and Green Ronin decided to publish for d20 Modern. I think I even offered a bribe to someone who worked on it to get a copy of the shelved manuscript....
And d20 Spectaculars, though that wasn't quite finished...
Are you contractually prohibited from writing a similar product and releasing it under the SGG label?
Because I still play d20 Modern, and it'd be super-sweet to have something like this. :D
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I've certainly been offered bribes for peaks at this project. Some more NSFW than others. But I know for a fact the final manuscript was never finished, so there's nothing worth being bribed for, more's the pity.Are you contractually prohibited from writing a similar product and releasing it under the SGG label?
Because I still play d20 Modern, and it'd be super-sweet to have something like this. :D
This would be awesome!
And d20 Spectaculars, though that wasn't quite finished...
Superheroes RPGs always get a lot of love. If Paizo does Pathfinder Modern, is it something you might be interested in doing?
I would check ebay as that's where I got mine. Looks like your name is known in the annals of the Acaeum
It wasn't until last year that I found out that my material had made it into a set of adventures that were packaged with the Survival Guides in a deluxe edition. I would love to find a copy of that.
If you really want to aquire Dark & Hidden Ways, check with the acaeum guys. It is a bit of a collector's item though, so a bit expensive.
If you really want to aquire Dark & Hidden Ways, check with the acaeum guys. It is a bit of a collector's item though, so a bit expensive.
There's one here
There's one hereIf you really want to aquire Dark & Hidden Ways, check with the acaeum guys. It is a bit of a collector's item though, so a bit expensive.
And I don't think that price is totally out of line, believe it or not.
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I thought it was very good.Aww, thanks my man. What did you think?For the benefit of anyone else out there risking serious facial injury, I meant to say that I have ordered a copy of Snows of an Early Winter, a Call of Cthulhu supplement written by Louis Agresta and published by Super Genius Games.
I thought it was very good as well. There's a certain something that most good Call of Cthulhu adventures have that is hard to put into words - its something along the lines of, if you are not paying enough attention, and not giving the situation the respect it deserves, then your character will end up getting his head ripped off as a natural part of the story's flow - and this adventure certainly has that.
I particularly liked the advice for running it in different eras. There's a lot of interesting historical information there, packed into a small space.
It is also very open and free-flowing, which I liked. A slight downside of that is that it somewhat lacks a central narrative to make it easier for the Keeper. Space constraints probably made it impractical anyway, but it would have been nice to have been given more of an example at the start of how the adventure might pan out.
So yeah, excellent adventure.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'd just like to point out that we don't charge for preorders on paizo.com until we ship your order, so they're risk-free.I don't know how other folks' card services agreements are handled but ours prohibits us from charging cards until we ship a product. Any pre-order arranged with us is a "gentleman's agreement", not a sale, until the product is ready and in a mailer.
M
Both Visa and MasterCard prohibit charging prior to delivery in most circumstances*, but a startling number of companies seem to disregard that prohibition.
*If I recall correctly, you're allowed to take deposits on custom work done to order, and not much else.
Both Visa and MasterCard prohibit charging prior to delivery in most circumstances*, but a startling number of companies seem to disregard that prohibition.
*If I recall correctly, you're allowed to take deposits on custom work done to order, and not much else.
Probably because most customers don't even know where (or even that they should) to complain to when a business does this.
It is circumstances like this that business invented escrow, but the small scale of some internet transactions (and companies) means few people bother. Although kickstarter seems to profit quite well acting as escrow for projects like this.
Both Visa and MasterCard prohibit charging prior to delivery in most circumstances*, but a startling number of companies seem to disregard that prohibition.
Don't they also prohibit asking for identification, as the signature on the card (and matching it to the charge slip) is supposed to be all the identification required?
That's also disregarded by about everyone...
Although kickstarter seems to profit quite well acting as escrow for projects like this.
Kickstarter doesn't charge until funding goals are met. An authorization is made via Amazon payments, but that's it.
Kickstarter projects would probably count as the whole "deposit on custom work" Vic mentioned, as well...
Although kickstarter seems to profit quite well acting as escrow for projects like this.Kickstarter doesn't charge until funding goals are met. An authorization is made via Amazon payments, but that's it.
Kickstarter projects would probably count as the whole "deposit on custom work" Vic mentioned, as well...
Yes, their service is not exactly like escrow, but it is similar. They do take a percentage off the top of projects that are funded. They are a for profit venture. They guarantee that you won't be charged unless a project is funded, but do they have any recourse if the project never delivers?
I've heard mention of e20, and heard equal mention of its vaporware status.It's definitely taken longer than originally proposed, but supposedly, the book is going to print right now - Sarli missed the deadline to get it in before GenCon, but was going to finalize all that once he was back.
It's supposedly "done".
I'm a patron on this, and I must say, that while it would have been cool to have it earlier, any delays on this have been far from an issue, because Gary has been VERY communicative - the longest delay has maybe been a couple of weeks?
We've received updates, and I've never felt that Gary was avoiding the pre-paid/patronage user base.
I'll have to chime in as well. I haven't been actively following it since I signed up for the e20 patronage as well, but I have been receiving updates concerning its status too. I understand that things can fall behind, but just a quick note to let us know what's going on instead of being evasive goes a long way to keeping tempers in check when the money has already been taken.
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Well, if nothing else, now I really want to play Call of Cthulhu!If you never did before, you really should. I greatly enjoyed ALL adventures I played in CoC and similar Horror/Fantastic games.
My friends and I played one session of Call of Cthulhu way back in the late 80's. The GM was older and was a vet Call of Cthulhu player / GM. We had a blast!
For some reason though, we never played Call of Cthulhu again after that ...
I removed a post. That particular bit of name-dropping was unnecessary.
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So, for someone who only discovered the existence of Razor Coast earlier tonight... I guess the summation is, looks like it's not going to happen? :(
Yeah that ship is definitely not making it to port. Nick isn't even pretending anymore. It's a shame, but I won't let it sour me on the patronage model. If you invest in anything, you have to expect losses every once in a while.
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Yeah that ship is definitely not making it to port. Nick isn't even pretending anymore. It's a shame, but I won't let it sour me on the patronage model. If you invest in anything, you have to expect losses every once in a while.
Ah darn, that's a real shame. Everything I heard about it sounded so great too.
I actually discovered it in a roundabout way through Pathfinder... I found a Pathfinder artist's blog that led me to these awesome images, and then caught wind that they might have been part of Razor Coast...
nJoo at deviantART - Dajobas Attack
nJoo at deviantART - Night of the Shark
Oh well... back to the dreaming/drawing board than.
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Yeah, this gem was going to be the cover: Linky
I wish I had the cheddar to make an offer on the original. Then Nick could pay his patrons back and I'd get my favorite WAR painting ever. Alas, I am not rich =(
A part of me wants to think that that out-of-work pirate got a job as Paizo's gunslinger.
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Yeah, this gem was going to be the cover: Linky
I wish I had the cheddar to make an offer on the original. Then Nick could pay his patrons back and I'd get my favorite WAR painting ever. Alas, I am not rich =(
I wonder how many people pooling resources together it would take to get it out as a .pdf-only or something...
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I wonder how many people pooling resources together it would take to get it out as a .pdf-only or something...Yeah, this gem was going to be the cover: Linky
I wish I had the cheddar to make an offer on the original. Then Nick could pay his patrons back and I'd get my favorite WAR painting ever. Alas, I am not rich =(
Not gonna happen. Plenty of people have been trying to drag this product out of Mr. Logue for a VERY long time now. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he has no desire or intention to publish this thing.
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Not gonna happen. Plenty of people have been trying to drag this product out of Mr. Logue for a VERY long time now. It's pretty blatantly obvious that he has no desire or intention to publish this thing.I wonder how many people pooling resources together it would take to get it out as a .pdf-only or something...Yeah, this gem was going to be the cover: Linky
I wish I had the cheddar to make an offer on the original. Then Nick could pay his patrons back and I'd get my favorite WAR painting ever. Alas, I am not rich =(
The upside is the Skull and Shackles AP should tackle a lot of the same ground.
Well its very late in the game but I'll reluctantly send Nick my refund request for all 5 of my preorders. *sigh*
I will let you know if I receive any response.
Nick comes out to of the shadows?
Interesting post on Lou Agresta's blog here.
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I have mixed feelings about the properties changing hands without pre-orders being fully honoured. How do I prove that I haven't received a refund? etc.. Also, its very early here but I keep having flashbacks about bona fide purchasers and equity and such wrt to accepting property you know people probably have a claim against.
But I've been marking exams all Christmas so I'm in an Issue spotting frame of mind
