[Sinister Adventures] SA Website down, will we ever see the Razor Coast?


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Liberty's Edge

Damon Griffin wrote:

So, "X" number of people pre-ordered Razor Coast (Pathfinder edition) and now "Y" number of people have asked for refunds.

How closely does Y need to approach X before the product becomes unprintable? Or to ask another way, how many mule-headed holdouts like me are needed, not asking for refunds, to give this thing any chance of eventually seeing the light of day?

A few weeks back I was a mule-headed holdout. I only asked for a refund on Ebon Shroud when I heard that the product would definitely not see print. I only asked for a refund on Razor Coast when there was no response (for almost three weeks!) to my multiple requests for a refund on Ebon Shroud.

Razor Coast will see print if someone else publishes it. If you think that Nick Logue is ever going to put it out, you're kidding yourself.

Frog God Games

Maybe send an e-mail to Louis Porter, Jr.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My worry is this.....

He took that money as preorders a couple years ago now.
That money has in theory been sitting in a holding account.

Life gets in the way. What if those funds were plundered because they were needed to pay down an unrelated bill or for an emergency?

The money to actually print and finalize the book may no longer be sitting in the preorder account. Without further sales increasing cash flows, and refunds actually decreasing cash on hand, there exists a very strong possibility that the money needed to print the books is no longer lingering in some holding account.

That would explain why the refunds are coming so slowly. He can only refund money if preorder money is still on hand or he has excess cash coming in from somewhere else.

Think of the costs associated with releasing the book. Print costs....shipping costs...

My self resistraint is marginal. If I had a slew of fresh cash sitting in an account, I could rationalize siphoning off a little here and there to patch holes in my life.

It could happen easily.

I am an accounting major. The little side blurbs in the text book are rife with stories that have fanned my paranoia.

My apologies in advance.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Maybe send an e-mail to Louis Porter, Jr.

His (Louis) latest blog post is rather suggestive.


Sinister? RC? Years in the making? Signs point to one heck of an April Fools prank.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I hope not. A prank on April 1st is funny even if I fall for it. A prank the day before April Fools is just being a jerk IMO.

Edit: Especially when other people's money is involved.

Dark Archive

Paul Ryan wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Maybe send an e-mail to Louis Porter, Jr.
His (Louis) latest blog post is rather suggestive.

Yah...!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

After this guy's tasteless video blog on the subject, I really hope this is not a joke.


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Paul Ryan wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Maybe send an e-mail to Louis Porter, Jr.
His (Louis) latest blog post is rather suggestive.

Fing awesome!!!!!

UGH, I just noticed the date. Hrm, well, I'll wait and see.


Paul Ryan wrote:
His (Louis) latest blog post is rather suggestive.

It certainly is -- and would go a long way to explain why my offer to pick up Razor Coast as an Adamant release went unanswered by Nick & Co.

Liberty's Edge

Cormac wrote:
After this guy's tasteless video blog on the subject, I really hope this is not a joke.

Tasteless video blog on the subject? Any chance of a link?

Liberty's Edge

Lou's comment on the subject seems to suggest otherwise.

Geek Related Blog


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Marc Radle wrote:
Cormac wrote:
After this guy's tasteless video blog on the subject, I really hope this is not a joke.
Tasteless video blog on the subject? Any chance of a link?

I consider this a little tasteless. When you consider also that he asked to get the project earlier but that didn't happen. Maybe it is just because I'm not from US and don't get your business culture. Well, Paizonites don't comment on wizards in that light so maybe this is not that common. Probably I'm just too thin-skinned but that video made me an ex-customer.


It would be a shame if it was an April Fool's gag -- especially since it muddies the waters for genuine offers out there.

I'll state it again, here, publicly: Adamant Entertainment is willing to take Razor Coast over, honoring all existing pre-orders.

If Nick & Co. want to, they can contact me at gms@adamantentertainment.com


I can't really see LPJ putting this out. So if this is setting up an April's Fool gag then I'll think even less of LPJ. Hopefully he will not go that route...


Well, I hope he's sincere, but then again, I have no vested interest in it, one way or the other. I didn't work on the project and I didn't pre-order it, so the fact that it's now vaporware is a shame but not the end of the world.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Razor Coast was originally announced April 1st 2008. It would not surprise me if they announce its official release (finally) exactly 3 years later.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

deinol wrote:
Razor Coast was originally announced April 1st 2008. It would not surprise me if they announce its official release (finally) exactly 3 years later.

Wow, that is darkly ironic in itself


Matthew Morris wrote:
deinol wrote:
Razor Coast was originally announced April 1st 2008. It would not surprise me if they announce its official release (finally) exactly 3 years later.
Wow, that is darkly ironic in itself

"April Fool's three years ago! I keep your moneys!"


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

3 years ... wow ...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ernest Mueller wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
deinol wrote:
Razor Coast was originally announced April 1st 2008. It would not surprise me if they announce its official release (finally) exactly 3 years later.
Wow, that is darkly ironic in itself
"April Fool's three years ago! I keep your moneys!"

Now in his defence, that likely wasn't his plan...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Same topic sort of, but I wonder what will happen to the Anarchist Gamemaster's Cookbook. This was also something that took a pre-order, but never manifested.

Frog God Games

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Maybe send an e-mail to Louis Porter, Jr.

Or maybe not...


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Maybe send an e-mail to Louis Porter, Jr.
Or maybe not...

I surely won't be sending him any BUSINESS....

Liberty's Edge

I don't personally think that any of Louis Porter's work is worth owning (I have about 30 of his pdfs...mostly because I was trying to support every third-party Pathfinder publisher in sight).

I have never had occasion to make use a any of my Louis Porter pdfs, unlike some of the quality 3rd party publishers out there (like Super Genius Games!). They're poorly done, and padded with fillers to up the page count.

Whatever you think of his prank, save yourself some money and don't buy from Louis Porter. You won't want to waste the ink to actually print one of his pdfs anyway.

Just my two cents...

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I removed a post. Please keep criticism constructive.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

I liked the Prestige Class Cookbook... and I printed it out! :-)


Oh, Porter apologized, no need to continue to be punks about it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Indeed, can a publisher not make a mistake once in awhile? If he doesn't learn from it, mock away, but there is a limit, is there not?


On topic, anyone hear anything from Nick? Sucks that Lou is no longer involved. Back to crickets chirping...

Liberty's Edge

Nick responded to my e-mail after 36 days:

Nicolas Logue wrote:

Hi Mitch!

Sorry for the delay, I am SWAMPED in refunding people right now, but will be getting it all knocked down this week. Sorry again!

Nick"

We'll see...

Grand Lodge

Must be an amazing amount of refunds.
Wonder why?
Lack of promises delivered along with product?


Katt De Grey wrote:

Must be an amazing amount of refunds.

Wonder why?
Lack of promises delivered along with product?

Well, his usual routine is: pop up once every two months with some brainless witty banter, ignore the posters asking him where the product is, and then disappear after making vague promises.

And, the answer to why he can't give you money back all at once is obvious: he spent it. He's waiting on his paycheck to slowly pay everyone back.

What's more horrible is that Paizo defended him on multiple occasions, even after two years of RC not seeing daylight. If you look back on the messageboards, posters HAVE called him out on it...I think almost a year ago. Cue Nick Logue's fans and Paizo staff flocking to defend the man's honor. And now, we are here. Over 3 years since RC was first announced.

Nick Logue is a terrible person, who has been given ample opportunity to turn over a new leaf, to ship the product to others (and LPJr was not the only one who has requested the ability to print the product-others who felt even more charitable petitioned to release it and keep just enough money to pay for the printing and distributing). He relied on his good name to pitch a product, and then thoroughly trashed it.

I'm not really angry at him-I ALMOST pre-ordered, but decided on waiting for it to come out before I bought it, so I really never had anything at stake. I really, really wanted it to come out though-it looked so heartbreakingly awesome!

Seriously Nick, I know you read these posts, release the f%@+ing product. You are making a horrible career decision if you don't, and disappointing a lot of people who used to believe in you. And-hey, maybe you won't be setting aside 250 bucks every paycheck to pay people back for preorders.

Sovereign Court

Rocketmail1 wrote:

He relied on his good name to pitch a product, and then thoroughly trashed it...

You are making a horrible career decision if you don't...

Whilst I agree with much of what you say it seems to me that Nick genuinely intended to develop Razor Coast, the original Indulgences came out in a timely manner and he was all over messageboards and whatnot, but then he got a new job on a new continent.

He dropped RC, which is understandable but pretty awful as he had taken pre-orders, to focus on his new job. He made a decision which was probably pretty positive for his new career.

What doesn't make sense is the failure to release at all after Lou completed the project. At the very least just give the book to someone reliable (a werecabbage, a trusted 3pp) and let them release it.

It seems perverse to sit on the book.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
GeraintElberion wrote:
It seems perverse to sit on the book.

We're talking about the guy who wrote Hook Mountain Massacre, right? XD


GeraintElberion wrote:
Rocketmail1 wrote:

He relied on his good name to pitch a product, and then thoroughly trashed it...

You are making a horrible career decision if you don't...

Whilst I agree with much of what you say it seems to me that Nick genuinely intended to develop Razor Coast, the original Indulgences came out in a timely manner and he was all over messageboards and whatnot, but then he got a new job on a new continent.

He dropped RC, which is understandable but pretty awful as he had taken pre-orders, to focus on his new job. He made a decision which was probably pretty positive for his new career.

What doesn't make sense is the failure to release at all after Lou completed the project. At the very least just give the book to someone reliable (a werecabbage, a trusted 3pp) and let them release it.

It seems perverse to sit on the book.

It's always been considered a bad idea to burn your bridges, which is essentially what has happened. I whole-heartedly agree he could rebuild those bridges by doing one. Simple. Thing.

Release the book. Maybe it's disadvantageous to release to someone else-but at least its out there. At that point, all the refunds may stop, because everyone is happy that they have the book, even though he didn't write all of it.

I'd like to think that he's reediting the book to make it sound more like he wrote it-making it edgier, grittier, etc. But, more likely, he's not. But it would be cool if that was what he was doing.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook Subscriber

One thing to consider re: publication; if the refunds are slow to come, it might be possible, if not likely, that the reason posited above is correct - he prespent his budget and now has to pay the refunds out of pocket. But if that is true, then it is also possible that the money to pay for publication is also prespent. Does anyone know how he planned to actually print it? On demand printer or via a print partner? Also, who was supposed to do layout. If Nick was responsible for layout as well, I would not expect to see it for a while yet, even if the publication money is still there.


Rocketmail1 wrote:


What's more horrible is that Paizo defended him on multiple occasions, even after two years of RC not seeing daylight. If you look back on the messageboards, posters HAVE called him out on it...I think almost a year ago. Cue Nick Logue's fans and Paizo staff flocking to defend the man's honor. And now, we are here. Over 3 years since RC was first announced.

To be fair, I have seen Paizo staff defend him in so far as they have said he didn't intend to take anyone's money without producing product, but I have also seen Paizo staff mention that Nick really got ahead of himself when it comes to pre-orders and the number and size of projects he had planned.

Rocketmail1 wrote:
Seriously Nick, I know you read these posts, release the f%#+ing product. You are making a horrible career decision if you don't, and disappointing a lot of people who used to believe in you. And-hey, maybe you won't be setting aside 250 bucks every paycheck to pay people back for preorders.

Honestly, Nick teaches drama at a University in England. His failure to deliver an RPG project doesn't really affect that job at all, and I suspect that at this point in his life, Nick's teaching gig is likely his career, not RPG publishing.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be upset, and I'm not saying Nick didn't screw up big time. But he did, as noted by a few people, produce some really slick "teaser" product with the indulgences, and he had a lot of career shifts in a short period of time that I think he just wasn't banking on.

But yeah, he screwed up, and he owes all of his pre-order folks an apology and their money back.

Liberty's Edge

Heymitch wrote:
Nick responded to my e-mail after 36 days:
Nicolas Logue wrote:

Hi Mitch!

Sorry for the delay, I am SWAMPED in refunding people right now, but will be getting it all knocked down this week. Sorry again!

Nick"

Heymitch wrote:

We'll see...

Well, the week is over. Since Nick surely knocked down that pile of refunds this past week, I must be just about the only guy left he hasn't paid yet. Gosh, it can't be long now...

...Or maybe you're just full of it, Nick.

Nick may have gone into this with the best of intentions, but right now, he's nothing but a con artist, making empty promises that he has no intention of keeping.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Or has no capability to keep.


KnightErrantJR wrote:


To be fair, I have seen Paizo staff defend him in so far as they have said he didn't intend to take anyone's money without producing product, but I have also seen Paizo staff mention that Nick really got ahead of himself when it comes to pre-orders and the number and size of projects he had planned.
\

Honestly, Nick teaches drama at a University in England. His failure to deliver an RPG project doesn't really affect that job at all, and I suspect that at this point in his life, Nick's teaching gig is likely his career, not RPG publishing.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be upset, and I'm not saying Nick didn't screw up big time. But he did, as noted by a few people, produce some really slick "teaser" product with the indulgences, and he had a lot of career shifts in a short period of time that I think he just wasn't banking on.

But yeah, he screwed up, and he owes all of his pre-order folks an apology and their money back.

No, hold on there man. You don't just suddenly pack up and leave to England for a teaching job you don't know is there. It's not like he went to England and voila! Teaching job!

If you are getting hired as a Professor, you basically KNOW. Getting a teaching position anywhere takes preplanning, but one that requires you to relocate is usually one you know is on your plate for quite some time.

A sudden career shift it was not. I'd say he was looking for a job, possibly outside the States for some time. I'm not saying it was a bad career decision to make, but it was made at the expense of RC. And it wasn't something that happened out of the blue. His wife getting hurt? Out of the blue. Getting a teaching job and getting interviews and getting ready to move? Planned.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Rocketmail1 wrote:
stuff

No, hold on there man.

You are making statements of fact that are pure speculation on your part. Regardless of what you think, some facts simply will never be known for certain. It is well within the realm of possibility that without the family problems that came up, Nick could have released RC as planned and then moved on to teach. Then again, it is well within the realm of possibility that it wouldn't have. Who Knows. It simply does not matter how or why anymore. Bringing it up yet again and mudslinging is a waste of time.

Move on.

Cheerio, Rath.


Rathendar wrote:
Rocketmail1 wrote:
stuff

No, hold on there man.

You are making statements of fact that are pure speculation on your part. Regardless of what you think, some facts simply will never be known for certain. It is well within the realm of possibility that without the family problems that came up, Nick could have released RC as planned and then moved on to teach. Then again, it is well within the realm of possibility that it wouldn't have. Who Knows. It simply does not matter how or why anymore. Bringing it up yet again and mudslinging is a waste of time.

Move on.

Cheerio, Rath.

Calling attention to an ongoing issue, in the hopes that someone will rectify the situation, is not a pointless waste of time.

However, as it appears that the only person who can rectify the situation appears to be a follower of your philosophy, I will take my leave too.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Calling attention to, and making disparaging remarks about, are separate things.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Calling attention to, and making disparaging remarks about, are separate things.

+1


The only thing I was pointing out was that there are, indeed, several factors that point towards Nick having every intention of making things work. If people want to beat him up for underestimating his ability to produce material, that's fine. But there is a difference between getting ahead of yourself regarding what you can produce and being, as some people have put it, a crook.

I agree that Nick has made mistakes, as mentioned in my post above. I think he tends to compound it by checking in every few months and making really vague promises. But I'm a firm believer in calling someone out for what they have actually done, or have not done, not for supposed motives.

Nick is a very talented RPG writer that made the mistake of thinking that the writing part is the hard part and that everything else would fall into place. He also made a mistake by taking pre-orders before he actually had a lot of details on production nailed down. All fair game to hammer him with.

Trust me, logic does not fail me. I like Nick's work, but I wouldn't sign on to anything he was producing himself from this point on. I don't think he is practical enough to actually be in charge of a project from start to finish. Incompetent (when it comes to producing material on his own) and flighty? Yes. A dishonest person or one that intentionally bilked people out of money? Nope. Not at all.

Dark Archive

I reserve the right to say whatever I wish to say the moment it becomes indubitable that Nick cannot refund the money I paid.


Radavel wrote:
I reserve the right to say whatever I wish to say the moment it becomes indubitable that Nick cannot refund the money I paid.

So... four years?

Dark Archive

Lyingbastard wrote:
Radavel wrote:
I reserve the right to say whatever I wish to say the moment it becomes indubitable that Nick cannot refund the money I paid.
So... four years?

Demand to refund was made two days ago.

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