Sorry for the Subject, couldn't describe in a single sentence what I'm trying to accomplish.
The question is when you receive a feat from a class, such as Monk or Ranger, where you do not need to have the prerequisites for that Bonus feat can you then take choose the next feat in the tree?
Situation: Ranger is level 7 with a Dex17 and archery style with `Rapid shot` and `Improved Precise Shot`
Can the Ranger above choose at his level 7th feat `Manyshot`? Does having `Rapid shot` count as having `Point Blank Shot` for purposes of choosing a feat in the feat tree?
Rapid Shot prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.
Manyshot prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.
Since Manyshot has Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite, you must have Point Blank Shot in order to take Manyshot as a regular feat. Of course, you can take Manyshot as a ranger's combat style feat at the appropriate level without having Point Blank Shot (or any other prerequisites).
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The question is when you receive a feat from a class, such as Monk or Ranger, where you do not need to have the prerequisites for that Bonus feat can you then take choose the next feat in the tree?
You need all of the prerequisites listed, not just the immediate prerequisite in a tree of feats. Having Rapid Shot alone is insufficient for Manyshot; you also need Point-Blank Shot in your example.
If a feat called for Rapid Shot and didn't specify PBS, you'd be fine with just Rapid Shot.
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You can only take feats that you do not meet the prereqs for if you use a bonus feat that tells you you do not have to meet the prereqs.
Rapid Shot does not count as having Point Blank Shot in any case. You can only take Manyshot if you use a 'does not have to meet the requirements' bonus feat slot for it.
Sorry for the Subject, couldn't describe in a single sentence what I'm trying to accomplish.
The question is when you receive a feat from a class, such as Monk or Ranger, where you do not need to have the prerequisites for that Bonus feat can you then take choose the next feat in the tree?
Situation: Ranger is level 7 with a Dex17 and archery style with `Rapid shot` and `Improved Precise Shot`
Can the Ranger above choose at his level 7th feat `Manyshot`? Does having `Rapid shot` count as having `Point Blank Shot` for purposes of choosing a feat in the feat tree?
Rapid Shot prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.
Manyshot prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.
If you don't specifically have the feats listed in the prerequisites, you cannot take the feat.
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As an example, I am playing a zen archer monk. At first level, I took Precise Shot as a bonus feat. Ordinarily, I would not be able to take this feat without Point-Blank shot, but in this case I could, because Precise Shot is specifically listed as a bonus feat available to first- or second-level zen archer monks even if they do not meet the prerequisites. Since I do not have Point-Blank Shot, I could not take Precise Shot other than as a bonus feat.
Unless you are taking a bonus feat, for which the class description says you do not need to meet the prerequisites, you need all the prerequisites, including the prerequisites for the prerequisites.
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u receive a feat from a class, such as Monk or Ranger, where you do not need to have the prerequisites for that Bonus feat can you then take choose the next feat in the tree?
If you get Improved Grab as a feat (bonus), you can only take Greater Grab if you meet the prereqs for Greater Grab.
You may notice that some 2nd/3rd stage feats have all the same prereqs as the first. If you don't meet all the prereqs (like if you got to skip some in the 1st feat) then you can't skip them in the second.
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If you don't specifically have the feats listed in the prerequisites, you cannot take the feat.
V
That is only partly correct; while he couldn't pick it as his 7th level feat, a ranger can take combat style feats without meeting the prerequisites (in this case at 10th level).
Combat Style Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
Yeah, unless an ability says otherwise, you must meet ALL listed prerequisites, not just the immediate ones.
At 3rd level, a ranger with the mounted combat combat style can pick up Spirited Charge if he took Ride-by Attack as his bonus feat, even though he doesn't have ranks in Ride or the Mounted Combat feat.
Ride-By attack requires 1 rank in Ride as well as Mounted Combat, but since it is a ranger bonus feat, these prerequisites can be ignored. The Spirited Charge prerequisites cannot be ignored, but since it only has Ride-by Attack listed, it is still legal.
The example listed in the OP would not work.
Combat Style Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.
So when at level 5, for example, can a Ranger with the Archery combat style that choose Rapid Shot at level 2 as bonus feat, choose Precise Shot even though he doesn't have Point Blank Shot?
Point Blank Shot => Precise Shot
Point Blank Shot => Rapid Shot
Reason I think its possible is because RAW it says, "[h]e can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites." Precise Shot is in the list of Archery Style feats and thus the Ranger doesn't need to meet the prerequisites because its in this list. If the rules said, "[h]e can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites, only when choosing a bonus feat," THEN I would agree with the previous posters.
Do you agree?
I do not. A twisted, hyper-pedantic reading of RAW might make that ambiguous, but a sane reading notes that this is under a special ability which is meted out at specific levels and is clearly referenced in an ability called "Combat Style Feat".
When not taking feats at levels offered by this ability, the ability does not apply.
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Combat Style Feat (Ex): At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.So when at level 5, for example, can a Ranger with the Archery combat style that choose Rapid Shot at level 2 as bonus feat, choose Precise Shot even though he doesn't have Point Blank Shot?
Point Blank Shot => Precise Shot
Point Blank Shot => Rapid ShotReason I think its possible is because RAW it says, "[h]e can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites." Precise Shot is in the list of Archery Style feats and thus the Ranger doesn't need to meet the prerequisites because its in this list. If the rules said, "[h]e can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites, only when choosing a bonus feat," THEN I would agree with the previous posters.
Do you agree?
I agree with Mauril, i.e. that this only applies to feats granted by Combat Style feature; all the other "normal" feats gained at every other level must meet the prerequisites.
I stand corrected.
Apologies offered. I've just seen that argued multiple times by people who (based on a larger body of evidence) seem to lack a bit in rationality.
Hamor, I apologize for implying that you were not in your right mind. Sometimes the internet emboldens interpretations that would not have even crossed my mind in normal discussion.