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About to go home. Have a good weekend, everyone.


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I sure do love Valentine's Day.


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Tacticslion wrote:

I remember reading one AP (or some published adventure, 4E?) where it just kind of assumed that the PCs would try diplomacy. And I was flummoxed. They had to battle a horde of these same people - not just the same kind of people but literally they had assaulted the very fortress they were in the middle of and slaughtered their way to the throne room - the adventure allowed for nothing else - and the adventure then just stops and says, “So now that they are in front of the evil queen, they have to diplomacy her to help them.” And it makes no daggum sense. And it dares to suggest that they have to because of how many guards she has. Which are outnumbered by all the folks they just slaughtered their way through. Because the designated bad guys left them with no choice. It’s such a tonal whiplash with no in-character reason for the change except, “those guys look scary” which, I don’t know if you’ve met PCs, but... no, that’s not a thing.

I mean, it can work in a story, but there are no provided motivations for anything, here - the PCs want a thing and the bad guys don’t have it but the PCs think they do and the bad guys immediately attack them and there is never a request for quarter or peace. If the PCs don’t fight? They don’t get rewards and the adventure grinds to a halt. If the PCs don’t diplomacy the boss? They get nothing and the adventure is lost. (As written.)

Now, again, it could be worked around, but the PCs need provided motivation and we really were never given any.

So, I was reading through an adventure, recently, and came across this:

- Situation: the PCs need to rescue slaves from slavers (other hooks apply, but let’s go with this)
- they come to the slaver hideout/fortress; there are five dudes at the entry encounter (though the PCs can’t see this)
- > 1) an (relatively) easy climb check gets you on the nearby balcony as an obvious sneaky way in; this only requires athletics, not even stealth; the door is not locked
- > 2) you could assault the front door - it’s relatively easy and requires a single success - or Thievery your way in; both are a single DC 20
- > 3) you could talk you’re way inside; this requires a skill challenge including 4 successes before 2 failures

Option one results:

Quote:
To your right, stone steps lead down to a chamber containing several rough furnishings. Two bored-looking goblins are clean-ing their gear, while a hulking goblinlike creature snores loudly.

All options results (including one):

Quote:
If the adventurers enter through the double door, regard-less of how they gained entry, the goblins recognize them as foes and attack.

So this encounter makes a few mistakes right off the bat. The first is that one option (sneak through the balcony) is so much better it’s laughable - the result is that you get into a base with several bad guys asleep and unaware of your presence so you can attack them.

The second mistake is that there is literally no other option than to fight them.
Sneak in the front with one dice roll? Fight them. Bash down the front with one dice roll? Fight them. Spend a minimum of four dice rolls to try and talk with them? Fight them. Sneak into their place from a way they aren’t guarding? Play patty cak-, I mean fight them.

The differences in the results are palpable, too. If you bash down the door, everyone is, of course, awake. If you Thievery the front door, people aren’t all awake, but the corridors are such that you’re in no position to take advantage of anything and as there are two dudes who yell for help to wake everyone, your surprise round will be “I move into the room” and that’s it... same as bashing the door. Spend all the time and effort to negotiate? You are allowed in the door, and then recognized as enemies and attacked... but all the enemies are awake and have been preparing during your negotiation, making this option not only take longer at the table but also actively punishing it by putting the entry area of the bad guys at full readiness. Sneak in the side way? Three bad guys - one of which is sleeping - none of which are paying attention, potentially allowing you to sneak past them and even more quickly confronting the boss.

The authors of this adventure aren’t bad authors, it’s just an example of a poorly written encounter that matches NH’s description of “do x or get punished.”


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I don't agree. People who have been foretold that enemies are coming and will attack people who match their description isnt poor writing, it's information being ammunition(this is assuming the talk your way in part falls apart because the goblins recognize the PCs as people not in the business, which is an assumption, I admit).

Also, as several dead PCs can tell you, stealthing in is great...until someone messes up and a fight breaks out.

This isn't poorly written, this is people in a trade aware that it isnt too kosher and are ready to defend themselves the instant someone comes looking to disrupt business.


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So after about 10 hours of sleep, I'm much better. Still feeling a little murderous, but that will lessen.

The restore process finally finished while I slept. Took 19 hours. Got the application up and running again this morning, but I still have to get the rest of the patches to apply. Probably wait a bit to do that. Like as long as I can.


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So, for those as are interested, the AT&T saga continues:

After initially closing parking on most of the street for the entire week, they showed up for a grand total of 8 hours (4 hours on Wednesday and 4 hours on Friday) and didn't finish their work.

I can accept that they were being excessively cautious in their estimate of how long the work would take, but, "We scheduled the time and didn't bother to show up, so we're going to shut down the street next week as well," is just plain asinine.


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And yeah, the example TL gives isn't nearly as bad as many I've seen. One of the worst tropes I'm having to run right now is, "This NPC hates the PCs on sight for no given reason, and the moment they're out of town the NPC betrays and attacks them because plot. There is no way to avoid this."

The other one I'm having issues with is, "Two tribes of beastmen are at war. One tribe allies itself with some humans to get an advantage and nearly annihilates the other tribe, so they're holed up just trying to recover from their near-genocide. Even if the PCs show up offering to even the scales, the decimated tribe attacks the PCs on sight."


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That NPC's motivation was accidentally cut from the adventure, it tied in with one of the amnesiac backgrounds.

:
Back before the PCs worked for Lowls and got forced amnesia the NPC and one of the PCs were lovers but had a big falling out

I remember Adam talking about it somewhere after the adventure was published and that was one of his biggest regrets in development.


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NobodysHome wrote:

And yeah, the example TL gives isn't nearly as bad as many I've seen. One of the worst tropes I'm having to run right now is, "This NPC hates the PCs on sight for no given reason, and the moment they're out of town the NPC betrays and attacks them because plot. There is no way to avoid this."

The other one I'm having issues with is, "Two tribes of beastmen are at war. One tribe allies itself with some humans to get an advantage and nearly annihilates the other tribe, so they're holed up just trying to recover from their near-genocide. Even if the PCs show up offering to even the scales, the decimated tribe attacks the PCs on sight."

You mean people who look exactly like the ones who slaughtered their kin arent welcomed by the survivors with open arms?


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Ande todaye did I winne one, and lose iii, of myne sworde & dager matchysse, but loste with honnoure, so no matter.

I also helped record ye scores inne ye morne, and attended an classe in ye swordplay of ye Spanysshe, which did confuse me mightily, though that is noe greate taske in ytselfe.


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Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

And yeah, the example TL gives isn't nearly as bad as many I've seen. One of the worst tropes I'm having to run right now is, "This NPC hates the PCs on sight for no given reason, and the moment they're out of town the NPC betrays and attacks them because plot. There is no way to avoid this."

The other one I'm having issues with is, "Two tribes of beastmen are at war. One tribe allies itself with some humans to get an advantage and nearly annihilates the other tribe, so they're holed up just trying to recover from their near-genocide. Even if the PCs show up offering to even the scales, the decimated tribe attacks the PCs on sight."

You mean people who look exactly like the ones who slaughtered their kin arent welcomed by the survivors with open arms?

Not even accepting that argument for a second.

"Oh, look! We were slaughtered by a group of all-male, all-blond, all-Aryan humans all in Nazi uniforms and working in unison as a military unit! Now here comes a half-orc, a gnome, a half-elf, and a Varisian, all in ragtag gear, speaking our language, and offering to help us. They must be the exact same people!"

That's not GM'ing realistically.

EDIT: Yes, of COURSE they'd be wary. But "attack on sight" when you're likely committing suicide just doesn't ring true.

EDIT 2: I guess that's the thing -- even when you study the bloodiest wars in history, there were moments when the two sides were willing to stop and talk to one another. The beastmen just suffered a horrifying defeat, so I can see them hunkering down in their defenses and saying, "If you come any closer, we'll kill you! No, we're not going to listen to you! Go away!"
And the PCs don't even get a Diplomacy roll to convince them otherwise.
But if the PCs listen to the beastmen, go away, then show up the next day with the heads of 10 of their enemies, leave them outside the door, and say, "We're really trying to help," then I'm going to give them their first Diplomacy roll against a hostile NPC, no matter what the AP says...


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NobodysHome wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

And yeah, the example TL gives isn't nearly as bad as many I've seen. One of the worst tropes I'm having to run right now is, "This NPC hates the PCs on sight for no given reason, and the moment they're out of town the NPC betrays and attacks them because plot. There is no way to avoid this."

The other one I'm having issues with is, "Two tribes of beastmen are at war. One tribe allies itself with some humans to get an advantage and nearly annihilates the other tribe, so they're holed up just trying to recover from their near-genocide. Even if the PCs show up offering to even the scales, the decimated tribe attacks the PCs on sight."

You mean people who look exactly like the ones who slaughtered their kin arent welcomed by the survivors with open arms?

Not even accepting that argument for a second.

"Oh, look! We were slaughtered by a group of all-male, all-blond, all-Aryan humans all in Nazi uniforms and working in unison as a military unit! Now here comes a half-orc, a gnome, a half-elf, and a Varisian, all in ragtag gear, speaking our language, and offering to help us. They must be the exact same people!"

That's not GM'ing realistically.

EDIT: Yes, of COURSE they'd be wary. But "attack on sight" when you're likely committing suicide just doesn't ring true.

EDIT 2: I guess that's the thing -- even when you study the bloodiest wars in history, there were moments when the two sides were willing to stop and talk to one another. The beastmen just suffered a horrifying defeat, so I can see them hunkering down in their defenses and saying, "If you come any closer, we'll kill you! No, we're not going to listen to you! Go away!"
And the PCs don't even get a Diplomacy roll to convince them otherwise.
But if the PCs listen to the beastmen, go away, then show up the next day with the heads of 10 of their enemies, leave them outside the door, and say, "We're really trying to help," then I'm going to give them their...

we are going to have to agree to disagree here, as our life circumstances, historical reading material, and definition of the word "wary" clearly do not jive.


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I think you just run/play your games WAY different from the rest of us.


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Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

And yeah, the example TL gives isn't nearly as bad as many I've seen. One of the worst tropes I'm having to run right now is, "This NPC hates the PCs on sight for no given reason, and the moment they're out of town the NPC betrays and attacks them because plot. There is no way to avoid this."

The other one I'm having issues with is, "Two tribes of beastmen are at war. One tribe allies itself with some humans to get an advantage and nearly annihilates the other tribe, so they're holed up just trying to recover from their near-genocide. Even if the PCs show up offering to even the scales, the decimated tribe attacks the PCs on sight."

You mean people who look exactly like the ones who slaughtered their kin arent welcomed by the survivors with open arms?

Not even accepting that argument for a second.

"Oh, look! We were slaughtered by a group of all-male, all-blond, all-Aryan humans all in Nazi uniforms and working in unison as a military unit! Now here comes a half-orc, a gnome, a half-elf, and a Varisian, all in ragtag gear, speaking our language, and offering to help us. They must be the exact same people!"

That's not GM'ing realistically.

EDIT: Yes, of COURSE they'd be wary. But "attack on sight" when you're likely committing suicide just doesn't ring true.

EDIT 2: I guess that's the thing -- even when you study the bloodiest wars in history, there were moments when the two sides were willing to stop and talk to one another. The beastmen just suffered a horrifying defeat, so I can see them hunkering down in their defenses and saying, "If you come any closer, we'll kill you! No, we're not going to listen to you! Go away!"
And the PCs don't even get a Diplomacy roll to convince them otherwise.
But if the PCs listen to the beastmen, go away, then show up the next day with the heads of 10 of their enemies, leave them outside the door, and say, "We're really trying to help,"

...

Agreed. Seems like for the best at the moment.


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Of course, the proper way to settle this is a race across the country.


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Freehold DM wrote:
I don't agree. People who have been foretold that enemies are coming and will attack people who match their description isnt poor writing, it's information being ammunition(this is assuming the talk your way in part falls apart because the goblins recognize the PCs as people not in the business, which is an assumption, I admit).

That's the thing. The bad guys have no way to know you're coming, who you are, or what you want.

The story-line so far:

0) EDIT: you come to an area you aren't from for unrelated reasons
1) while in that place, you defeat some bad guys who stole some locals
2) you found out that those locals had been sold to an entirely unrelated set of bad dudes that literally have nothing to do with the first adventure other than they happen to have purchased people
- 2a) specifically, they'd even purchased folks under-the-table, 'cause only some of the bad guys actually wanted to sell slaves; the leader didn't want to, 'cause it might draw unwanted attention (which it did, though that wasn't your only possible hook)
3) you travel quite some ways across the valley, enter a deep mountain, accidental your way into a fight with some of the slavers but with none of them escaping (unless you allow them to, which, okay, but it says they fight to the death, if I recall), realize that, "Oh, yeah, I guess the slavers are here." (which wasn't clear), and then learn from exactly one local (the guy you incidentally saved when you accidental'd across said small group of slavers), and that allows you to proceed directly to their base

There is no time, space, or moment for the slavers to even learn who you are, much less that you're coming for them.

Freehold DM wrote:
Also, as several dead PCs can tell you, stealthing in is great...until someone messes up and a fight breaks out.

Except, you don't even have to "stealth" into the top. As written, no one watches. The roll is to climb up on the shelf. A GM is well within his or her rights to force the stealth, but they specify all sorts of seemingly irrelivent DCs, and stealth isn't one of those.

Plus by being in that one hallway (where you stealth) you are in the best possible position for bad guys to "come at me, bro" because it's tight corridors that allow a well-rounded party to tank on two ends and allows you to range-fight out, but doesn't allow the bad guys to range-fight in.

Freehold DM wrote:
This isn't poorly written, this is people in a trade aware that it isnt too kosher and are ready to defend themselves the instant someone comes looking to disrupt business.

They have no reason to presupposed you're there to disrupt business. None. Nada. There isn't anything that relates you to being a threat. A GM can always invent one, but that's not what this is. Nothing in any of the story suggests you're there for them except you saying, "yeah, we'll go waaaaaayyyyyyyy out of our way to chase down some unrelated dudes for you" to some locals that you've already saved once.

Still poor writing.


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Orthos wrote:
I think you just run/play your games WAY different from the rest of us.

moving on.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I don't agree. People who have been foretold that enemies are coming and will attack people who match their description isnt poor writing, it's information being ammunition(this is assuming the talk your way in part falls apart because the goblins recognize the PCs as people not in the business, which is an assumption, I admit).

That's the thing. The bad guys have no way to know you're coming, who you are, or what you want.

The story-line so far:

0) EDIT: you come to an area you aren't from for unrelated reasons
1) while in that place, you defeat some bad guys who stole some locals
2) you found out that those locals had been sold to an entirely unrelated set of bad dudes that literally have nothing to do with the first adventure other than they happen to have purchased people
- 2a) specifically, they'd even purchased folks under-the-table, 'cause only some of the bad guys actually wanted to sell slaves; the leader didn't want to, 'cause it might draw unwanted attention (which it did, though that wasn't your only possible hook)
3) you travel quite some ways across the valley, enter a deep mountain, accidental your way into a fight with some of the slavers but with none of them escaping (unless you allow them to, which, okay, but it says they fight to the death, if I recall), realize that, "Oh, yeah, I guess the slavers are here." (which wasn't clear), and then learn from exactly one local (the guy you incidentally saved when you accidental'd across said small group of slavers), and that allows you to proceed directly to their base

There is no time, space, or moment for the slavers to even learn who you are, much less that you're coming for them.

Freehold DM wrote:
Also, as several dead PCs can tell you, stealthing in is great...until someone messes up and a fight breaks out.
Except, you don't even have to "stealth" into the top. As written, no one watches. The roll is to climb up on the shelf. A GM...

I guess I would have to read the adventure to know it the same way you do.


I want to be clear.

Poor writing =/= poor writers.

There is a difference.

This encounter is poorly written, poorly planned, and poorly executed.

The PCs are strangers who have just convinced people that have no way of knowing them that they're here for slaves. No reason to attack them.

The other option has PCs in a great place to funnel bad guys through places that prevent the bad guys from taking advantage of their numerical strength, and allowing the PCs to maximize their own.

(Forcing the bad guys into single-file even shuts down (or rather, makes irrelevant) several different special abilities the bad guys have - the ability to shift a square, and several abilities that deal extra damage by flanking (which they can't do). It does allow four (out of twenty, total) bad guys to use a different special ability (gaining AC by being adjacent), but it actually minimizes how much it can do even that. There is a single dude who could wreck PCs by blasting them all... but (depending on your positioning) he'd have to come around a corner, making him suuuuuuuuuper vulnerable (though, also depending on your positioning, he could be a real problem).

The thing about it is, though, none of the rest of the fortress is necessarily alerted. I'm reading it now, and it suggests that they flee if the sleeping dude (their big bruiser) is killed, but otherwise fight to the death (including the big dude).

Further, one of the two sets of the closest bad guys are noticeable loud, drunk, and not paying attention. The other of the two sets of closes bad guys are mostly ranged characters who suffer in the tight corridor you're "sneaking" into. None of the people you're actually likely to be facing here - even if the fortress is alerted - actually gain much advantage by you being in that hall.

On the other hand, if you go through the main one, you're stuck in a big room where archers can pick their targets at will and big blast guy can wreck PCs and control the environment even better (and doesn't need to put himself in danger).

So, again, it's not a fair design. You have:
-a) get in the door
-b) get in the door
-c) get in the door, but have all the disadvantages and get immediately attacked by people that don't know who you are
-d) or get into the best tactical position in the entire fortress by "sneaking" with no stealth rolls

Sure, climb might not be someone's forte, but if you're climbing up the side, you're probably not intentionally being as loud as you can. And if you are, yeah, they hear you and come out to attack... but that actually still puts you at a better advantage than talking your way in, because you're not automatically surrounded (though archers, if they come at you, would be harder to get).

Again, this isn't being a bad author. It's not fully exploring the consequences of choices, and making it actively better to do "a" than "b," "c," or, "d" from every conceivable metric in-game (and doing the talking thing is actively punished by every metric for no discernible reason). And, again, a GM can always just invent reasons, but as-written it's poor scripting. Doesn't make it a bad adventure, or a bad author - it makes it a bad individual instance.

EDIT: I used wording that really came off as more harsh than intended, so I have redacted that wording and apologize for the tone.


Freehold DM wrote:
I guess I would have to read the adventure to know it the same way you do.

Totally! That's what I'm saying! XD

(I pretty much haven't named it only because I don't want it to seem like I'm calling people out. I'm not. I have made similar mistakes before. But professional products doing the same tends to be more problematic, because you pay for them. People make mistakes. That's just normal. Hence me insisting a separations between one bad encounter and a bad author.)


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I'll be honest, I'm completely lost.


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captain yesterday wrote:
I'll be honest, I'm completely lost.

I would have recommended a left turn at Albuquerque.


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Vlaeros wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
I'll be honest, I'm completely lost.
I would have recommended a left turn at Albuquerque.

Cartoon violence is a cornerstone of gremlin education, so I've seen those cartoons.

The LAST thing you want to do is take a left turn at Albuquerque!


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Yeah, the last thing you want to do is get hooked on the blue.


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In other gaming related news I have finally found a dice program I really like for character creation. It's time I got back into making more random characters for players to meet/kill/rob.


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I'm really liking this. But I miss the original app. It apparently no longer works with my phone.


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Note to self: Develop a dice-rolling app with Girlz of FaWtL on each face...


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NobodysHome wrote:

Note to self: Develop a dice-rolling app with Girlz of FaWtL on each face...

Might want to check that they're okay with being called "Girlz" before you do the Kickstarter.


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I'm really hoping that it's just an error, but a guest came down to get a snack. He chose a 2.85oz bag of Jack Links teriyaki beef jerky, and it rang up at over $13. Which is insane even for hotel prices. Needless to say, he put it back and bought some Doritos (a small bag for almost the price of large bag at the grocery store, because hotel prices). I've left a note for the manager, but I'm afraid that $13 is indeed what he hopes to get people to pay for the jerky.


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Lidl store chain recently had small jerky bags (maybe 2-3 ounces, I don't recall exact weight EDIT: 25 grams or a little less than 1 imperial ounce) for a little less than a $1 (3.33 zł) per bag, if you bought three of them at once.

Normally the price is around $1.25 (4.99 zł) per bag, though.


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According to the Jack Links website, a 3.25 oz bag (the smallest one they had listed) retails for about $5, or a little over $1.50 an ounce. There are definitely cheaper brands out around.


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Two days late, but happy Valentine's Day! Hope yours was full of sunshine and good moments.


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NobodysHome wrote:

Note to self: Develop a dice-rolling app with Girlz of FaWtL on each face...

..actually I think you CAN do that with this app!


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Shattered Star
Iron Gods
Reign of Winter
Kingmaker
Hell's Rebels
Mummy's Mask
Wrath of the Righteous
War for the Crown..

Which would you run?


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captain yesterday wrote:

Shattered Star

Iron Gods
Reign of Winter
Kingmaker
Hell's Rebels
Mummy's Mask
Wrath of the Righteous
War for the Crown..

Which would you run?

Even though it fell apart on us, I think I'd pick Kingmaker, just because your kids building their own kingdom would be too side-splitting to miss.

I'm loving Shattered Star, but that's because very much like Rise of the Runelords there's a lot of NPC interaction and actual moral decisions as to whether or not to treat other groups as enemies.


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Crookshanks got Tiny T-Rex a cheap robot building kit for Christmas so today he's assembling it and the General is having him do the Lion's share of the work but he periodically tries to rope someone else into doing it for him so the General says "it's about the satisfaction of building it yourself, putting a little piece of yourself into the project!" "Okay, but what part of me should I include, a finger, a toe, perhaps...".


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captain yesterday wrote:

Shattered Star

Iron Gods
Reign of Winter
Kingmaker
Hell's Rebels
Mummy's Mask
Wrath of the Righteous
War for the Crown..

Which would you run?

From most preferred to less:

Iron Gods
Reign of Winter
Kingmaker
Shattered Star


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I should note we've used mythic rules before and we definitely don't use them optimally, which is why I included Wrath of the Righteous.


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captain yesterday wrote:
I should note we've used mythic rules before and we definitely don't use them optimally, which is why I included Wrath of the Righteous.

If you omit the execrable army combat rules, WotR books 1-3 are perfectly fine; in fact, in my opinion the opening scene of Book 1 is the best opening scene of ALL of the APs.

Unfortunately, the moment the PCs leave the Worldwound and head into the Abyss, the AP really goes off the rails and collapses under its own weight. We quit in Book 4, then Shiro ran it for a different group and finished it off, but had to make major adjustments to account for how badly mythic breaks things (he gave bosses +10 to hit, +10 damage, +10 to AC, and HP x 10 and they still got one-rounded, in spite of the players just choosing what sounded "neat" instead of trying to optimize), and even worse, sections where the situation was simply impossible as written. (Apparently there's a labyrinth involved, and if you play it as-written it is mathematically impossible for the players to ever actually leave it.)

So you get involved, get invested, and then have to use books 4-6 as "guidelines" because they simply don't work rules-wise, plot-wise, or PC-wise if you don't.


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In other amusing "be careful running all your APs in the same world" new, I like Shattered Star book 2 so much that I downloaded and ran the extended web content (excellent stuff! use it!), and tried downloading and running the extra module...
...except the location the author chose to set the extra module just happens to be where the RotRL and CotCT group ended up establishing a temple headed by a 14th-level paladin.

Oopsie.

I looked into rewriting it, but while the content would be fun, it wasn't so motivating nor, "OMG! I have to run this!" that I felt like rewriting it to work. (For example, I could site it in the Sevens Sawmill just fine.)

It was just pretty funny to me...


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Why I Love Hiring an Accountant Reason #38:

As I mentioned, I'm facing a couple hundred bucks in tax penalties because I didn't know Impus Major wasn't allowed to contribute to his Roth IRA until he had a job. So I contacted my accountant and said, "I know hiring you is more expensive than the penalty, but I want to make sure Impus Major doesn't end up with an audit because his attention to detail is terrible and it would haunt him for years."

And my accountant responded, "First, wait for the IRS to contact you about it. Then, when they do, you have documented proof that you removed the money from the account the moment you know it was illegal, so we have a very strong case to get the fine forgiven."

In other words, "Pay me nothing now, and if they come after you I'll get them to clear it up for you."

I love my accountant.


Running WotR... in 5e!

Makin’ my own 5e mythic!

That part’s goin’ ‘bout as well as you would guess.

:|


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KINGMAKER FOREVER

IRON GODS RULES

I am interested in Wrath of the Righteous and like what I have seen of War For The Crown.


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Freehold DM wrote:

KINGMAKER FOREVER

IRON GODS RULES

I am interested in Wrath of the Righteous and like what I have seen of War For The Crown.

Absolutely loved Kingmaker.

The writing in WotR is excellent so far.

I loved the concept off Council of Thieves, but the campaign has at least three “transition” points into a totally different kind of campaign and they don’t all have clear in-character motivations.

Rise of the Runelords starts strong, but is uncompleted.

Serpents Skull starts great, then goes weirdly railroady, weirdly sandboxy, and weirdly railroady again. And it varies between fun characters and weird meat grinding in what doesn’t feel like an even way. There is so much cool there, it’s always hard for me to not end up liking it as much.

I love Carrion Crown - it’s a shame about the loot and occasional characterization hiccups.

I love how Crimson Throne looks, but... I have to actually play it.

I’m loving Second Darkness so far, but I’m aware of its flaws and the coming rail road (ALL ABOARD, BABY!! CHOOCHOO!)


I would love to play or run the rest but tiiiiiiime.

Gonna try and finished RotR, and CC, though, after SD.


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Council of Thieves is barely better than Hell's Vengeance, so that one is a definite no for me (though I do love parts of it, not enough to use).

Carrion Crown has parts that aren't really suitable and I'd rather not deal with it.

Curse of the Crimson Throne is good, but Hell's Rebels does the same thing better.

Serpent's Skull isn't worth the effort.

Never even looked at Second Darkness, as I have no interest in revisiting 3.5.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:

Council of Thieves is barely better than Hell's Vengeance, so that one is a definite no for me (though I do love parts of it, not enough to use).

Carrion Crown has parts that aren't really suitable and I'd rather not deal with it.

Curse of the Crimson Throne is good, but Hell's Rebels does the same thing better.

Serpent's Skull isn't worth the effort.

Never even looked at Second Darkness, as I have no interest in revisiting 3.5.

I have heard that before...


Freehold DM wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:

Council of Thieves is barely better than Hell's Vengeance, so that one is a definite no for me (though I do love parts of it, not enough to use).

Carrion Crown has parts that aren't really suitable and I'd rather not deal with it.

Curse of the Crimson Throne is good, but Hell's Rebels does the same thing better.

Serpent's Skull isn't worth the effort.

Never even looked at Second Darkness, as I have no interest in revisiting 3.5.

I have heard that before...

"A presence I've not felt since..."


4 people marked this as a favorite.

At the chili cookoff, waiting for the dessert judging. There are two desserts that are easily better than mine (the hands-down best flan I have ever tasted, and a middle eastern dessert that's basically a coconut macaroon in cake form, glazed with some kind of syrup to make it moist and dense.) And a bunch of overly-sweet dump bars that appeal to the tweens in the room. I won't feel bad if I lose to something that's actually good, but I had better not lose to the chocolate-reeses lasagna.


If it helps, based exclusively off of what I've heard, you've have my vote hands down over everything else there.

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