Deep 6 FaWtL


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Oh, YEAH!!


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captain yesterday wrote:

I would actually tell people not to play Pathfinder 2 unless they also have the Advanced Player's Guide.

But I do that with Pathfinder Classic too.

I personally think they either need to separate the GMG and Player's Handbook like D&D or just make the CRB 900 pages.

a very, very fair point.


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The Problem with Not Checking Prices

I use Costco's Saigon cinnamon in my breakfast cereal. I searched for it, didn't bother looking at the price because I always buy it and it's not particularly expensive, then checked out.

Turns out it was for a 4-pack. Of Costco-sized cinnamon.

So now I have 2 1/2 pounds (over 1 kg) of cinnamon in my cupboard.

I'm sure I'll get through it eventually, but how stale will it be by the time I get to the final package?


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The story Post Human by J P KoeNig on Royal Road was well worth reading.


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The main thing I love about Pathfinder 2 that I'll be incorporating into Pathfinder Classic is they completely do away with touch AC.


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NobodysHome wrote:

The Problem with Not Checking Prices

I use Costco's Saigon cinnamon in my breakfast cereal. I searched for it, didn't bother looking at the price because I always buy it and it's not particularly expensive, then checked out.

Turns out it was for a 4-pack. Of Costco-sized cinnamon.

So now I have 2 1/2 pounds (over 1 kg) of cinnamon in my cupboard.

I'm sure I'll get through it eventually, but how stale will it be by the time I get to the final package?

I sense a "cinnamon challenge" in your future.


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Just make a lot of baked rice pudding and pumpkin pies.

Does your family hate custard? They will!

Also french toast.


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Like a good teacher, I decided that I should provide a model of a research outline for my kids so they had a concrete example of what I was expecting.

As someone who knows how kids work, I decided to make damn sure I picked a topic that none of them would be willing to put their names on to make sure they would actually do their own research rather than taking "inspiration" from mine.

"So as you can see here, where it says 'Research topic,' I've put Cats."

I've never gotten such a synchronized facepalm from my room.


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

The Problem with Not Checking Prices

I use Costco's Saigon cinnamon in my breakfast cereal. I searched for it, didn't bother looking at the price because I always buy it and it's not particularly expensive, then checked out.

Turns out it was for a 4-pack. Of Costco-sized cinnamon.

So now I have 2 1/2 pounds (over 1 kg) of cinnamon in my cupboard.

I'm sure I'll get through it eventually, but how stale will it be by the time I get to the final package?

I sense a "cinnamon challenge" in your future.

Basic Parenting 101: If your kid is about to do something stupid, but it won't permanently injure them or kill them, go ahead and tell them, "This is likely to happen, but I won't stop you."

Then point out that exactly what you said was going to happen happened.

That way when they decide to try something that might result in permanent injury or death and you say, "No, that's TOO stupid," they'll listen.

My kids get terrified the moment I start a sentence with, "Well, you CAN do that, but..."


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Interesting observation: Normally by this time of year, my hay fever is killing me. This year it's incredibly light. I was wondering why. Then I realized that every time I go outside I'm breathing through a cloth covering. Not enough to block a 90 nm virus, but probably plenty to block a 20,000 nm chunk of grass pollen.

I'm likely to continue wearing a mask in the Spring well beyond COVID. It's SO nice to be able to breathe in the Spring and smell the new growth!


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NobodysHome wrote:

Interesting observation: Normally by this time of year, my hay fever is killing me. This year it's incredibly light. I was wondering why. Then I realized that every time I go outside I'm breathing through a cloth covering. Not enough to block a 90 nm virus, but probably plenty to block a 20,000 nm chunk of grass pollen.

I'm likely to continue wearing a mask in the Spring well beyond COVID. It's SO nice to be able to breathe in the Spring and smell the new growth!

The General noticed the same thing.


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NobodysHome wrote:

The Problem with Not Checking Prices

I use Costco's Saigon cinnamon in my breakfast cereal. I searched for it, didn't bother looking at the price because I always buy it and it's not particularly expensive, then checked out.

Turns out it was for a 4-pack. Of Costco-sized cinnamon.

So now I have 2 1/2 pounds (over 1 kg) of cinnamon in my cupboard.

I'm sure I'll get through it eventually, but how stale will it be by the time I get to the final package?

You can try freezing it.


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I was looking through Cyberpunk Red and I found this funny little snippet in the section for shields.

Shield type: corpse, shield description: Shield made of meat. Used to be a person. Hit points: Body Stat it had in life, cost: Depends on how many bullets you went through.

Edit: You can also use living people as shields but that requires grappling.


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NobodysHome wrote:

Interesting observation: Normally by this time of year, my hay fever is killing me. This year it's incredibly light. I was wondering why. Then I realized that every time I go outside I'm breathing through a cloth covering. Not enough to block a 90 nm virus, but probably plenty to block a 20,000 nm chunk of grass pollen.

I'm likely to continue wearing a mask in the Spring well beyond COVID. It's SO nice to be able to breathe in the Spring and smell the new growth!

Also I made sure to cut the grass and trim the weeds every morning, father.


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Freehold DM wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Interesting observation: Normally by this time of year, my hay fever is killing me. This year it's incredibly light. I was wondering why. Then I realized that every time I go outside I'm breathing through a cloth covering. Not enough to block a 90 nm virus, but probably plenty to block a 20,000 nm chunk of grass pollen.

I'm likely to continue wearing a mask in the Spring well beyond COVID. It's SO nice to be able to breathe in the Spring and smell the new growth!

Also I made sure to cut the grass and trim the weeds every morning, father.

For whatever reason I heard FH's response in Douglas Renholm's voice


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So, I guess that little kid I've been rampaging across Boston looking for is an old man with his career track all set and raised by someone else (as is the American Way) so I guess the only thing left is to slowly mooch off him until I can steal his social security number.


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I did not get a relief. So, that's working 28.5 hours in a 48 hour period.


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John Napier 698 wrote:
I did not get a relief. So, that's working 28.5 hours in a 48 hour period.

Which should be what?

- 8 hours of overtime at 1.5x pay
- 4.5 hours of double overtime at 2x pay
- Illegal


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It's REALLY frustrating to deal with people who are so flaky that even an, "Are you going to be here today, yes or no?" text is beyond their ability.

General contractor guy grouted the floor and then went off for a 4-day "weekend" in Oregon (he's getting his truck repaired, so it's yet another of those, "Things I wouldn't do to save money" things where he's spending days of his life to get a discount on a new truck bed). He dutifully notified super flakey lead contractor, who's supposed to show up today to install the toilet and vanity.

And yep. No sign of him. No texts. No nothing. He's just flaking... again.

Is it any wonder this is going to end up being an 11-week bathroom project?

(Honestly, we've had him do projects for us twice before, and he was uncommunicative, but he showed up when he said he would and he finished the projects on time both times. So it's really weird to have him be THIS flakey in his third project for us.)


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Have you considered firing him and refusing to give him any money on the basis that, you know, that's entirely bullshit And then telling the story of what happened to your previous contractor to the next, so as to prevent this in the future?


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NobodysHome wrote:
John Napier 698 wrote:
I did not get a relief. So, that's working 28.5 hours in a 48 hour period.

Which should be what?

- 8 hours of overtime at 1.5x pay
- 4.5 hours of double overtime at 2x pay
- Illegal

SOP for most companies in America on the basis that filing lawsuits costs money that wage slaves don't have, and said companies know it, so they intentionally take advantage of.


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I once worked 42 hours straight shovelling snow.

I don't recommend this.

I also don't work for that company anymore.


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The longest run for where I'm currently working was 23 hours, with 8 hours off and then another 20 hours.


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The Vagrant Erudite wrote:
Have you considered firing him and refusing to give him any money on the basis that, you know, that's entirely b%*$*@&! And then telling the story of what happened to your previous contractor to the next, so as to prevent this in the future?

Finding a contractor who does even reasonably competent work in the Bay Area is akin to finding the Holy Grail. There's a reason people put up with him. There IS no one else; at least no one else who isn't booked at least 6-12 months in advance.

My general contractor puts it well: He works alone because he has yet to find anyone in this area to work under him who isn't lazy and/or incompetent. Anyone with any talent around here has more work than they can possibly handle.


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At reddit in r/HFY the book Chrysalis was damn good. It is in the classics section. Well worth reading.


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Hmm. I'll check it out.


NobodysHome wrote:
John Napier 698 wrote:
I did not get a relief. So, that's working 28.5 hours in a 48 hour period.

Which should be what?

- 8 hours of overtime at 1.5x pay
- 4.5 hours of double overtime at 2x pay
- Illegal

:hand_pointing_up:

i've been on discord, okay, i can't remember that many ways of formatting


NobodysHome wrote:

It's REALLY frustrating to deal with people who are so flaky that even an, "Are you going to be here today, yes or no?" text is beyond their ability.

General contractor guy grouted the floor and then went off for a 4-day "weekend" in Oregon (he's getting his truck repaired, so it's yet another of those, "Things I wouldn't do to save money" things where he's spending days of his life to get a discount on a new truck bed). He dutifully notified super flakey lead contractor, who's supposed to show up today to install the toilet and vanity.

And yep. No sign of him. No texts. No nothing. He's just flaking... again.

Is it any wonder this is going to end up being an 11-week bathroom project?

(Honestly, we've had him do projects for us twice before, and he was uncommunicative, but he showed up when he said he would and he finished the projects on time both times. So it's really weird to have him be THIS flakey in his third project for us.)

I don't... I didn't remember... I'm sorry I'm your general contractor, NH.


NobodysHome wrote:

The Problem with Not Checking Prices

I use Costco's Saigon cinnamon in my breakfast cereal. I searched for it, didn't bother looking at the price because I always buy it and it's not particularly expensive, then checked out.

Turns out it was for a 4-pack. Of Costco-sized cinnamon.

So now I have 2 1/2 pounds (over 1 kg) of cinnamon in my cupboard.

I'm sure I'll get through it eventually, but how stale will it be by the time I get to the final package?

Letting all that go stale would be a terrible cin[namon]!

To sausage your conscience, you'd better use it all in thyme!

(These horrible, horrible puns would be even better if you made sausage with thyme and cinnamon, but, you know, you get what you get and you don't throw a fit.)

((I apologize for nothing, but I do regret the inevitable rage this may induce to some. They are bad, yes. Very bad.))


people talkin' 'bout wrote:
Starfinder

I feel about Starfinder much like Syrus does about PF2.

As someone who loves PF very deeply, I have felt from very early on that bloat was a problem - note, "bloat" in this case is not the same as "options" or even "rules" but rather the incredibly complex fiddly bits that don't actually do anything for 99% of the game, but you still are required to track.

The other side of the problem with these abilities was how often immersion-breaking they could be. Not because they're badly designed (though they can be), but because they simply feel more like a game than anything a person in the world the game takes place in would actually have. There isn't enough linking them to the characters who have them and there really isn't a clarification of what they are.

Starfinder, unfortunately, took this and proceeded to double-down on it. There are a tremendous number of fiddly parts and extreme redundancies in SF that make it harder to run the game, and simply don't need to be there.

(Also, unless someone did something I'm unaware of, your ships are still nightmares to actually use, the better they get. Ugh.)

((Also, also, I just discovered last week how very remarkable is is that the current design of SF ships can be so directly traced to the d20 Star Wars rules, but then - in my opinion - made more fiddly and less user-friendly than those. That said, you should be able to pretty easily port any of those ships into SF without too much difficulty, and vice-versa.))

That said, I really love SF in many other ways. They also took things that had been not working and really sought ways to sort them out into something more broadly acceptable and applicable to a wider audience. It just feels more complex for the sake of complexity rather than direct and intuitive in the ways I would want from the system.

people talkin' 'bout wrote:
PF2

I feel remarkably similar to Syrus, though I've not actually put it into practice. But every time I've made the attempt to approach and apprehend the system, the layered nesting of redundancies and intricate doulbe and triple levels of "you can do X, but you secretly can't because Y, but Y only applies because Z, which only matters due to A and B" was remarkably enthusiasm-killing.

I feel like (for my gaming preferences) they took all the wrong lessons from SF and have simply walked away from what I want in a gaming system.

If I can ever master the energy and enthusiasm needed to truly get into it, I may change my mind, but as it stands it's just frustrating.

That said, it's definitely a work of literal genius and absolute skill mastery. Those self-same intricacies and frustrating elements are clearly created by masters of their art with a deft hand and remarkable skill. It's just not the genre of gaming I like in particular.

If I were to aim for something, I'd probably take the gist of a 3e-alike chassis, but apply 5e streamlining and EITHER 5e individual-score-based saving throws or 4e generalized saving throws, with a hard look at 4eisms and 5eisms that can generally enhance an internally-coherent system without the fiddly bloat (as opposed to options bloat) of PF.

But that's more a pipe dream than anything else, because it doesn't seem to scratch the itch that many come to the table for.


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I just want 3.x repaired.


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The Starship combat Reference cards help immeasurably for starship combat.

It has everything collected in one place even the stuff from the Starship Operations Manual. Which I also highly recommend for starship stuff.


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Don't get me wrong, I do love Pathfinder Classic too. But It's probably third on my list.

That said, there are so many RPGs out there so I don't see how you can go wrong with any game you happen to play.


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1st edition ad&d is still my favorite followed by the palladium system for all of it's faults.


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Palladium? Seriously?


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- smirk - yes.


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I like Palladium! I have Rifts, Robotech (or at least Invid Invasion, and The Sentinels, plus the REF Field Guide), After the Bomb, Dead Reign, and Nightbane.


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About to go home. Have a good weekend, everyone.


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hey were talking about superhero RPGs hmm...


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Over the months that I've been away, I've taken to watching multiple YouTube channels dedicated to TTRPGs. The two most influential have been DungeonCraft and MCDM (Matt Colville). I'm intrigued by the revival of the "old school"/"hardcore" gameplay styles, especially.

And so, of course, I'm homebrewing again. The familiar d20 engine chopped down into something much more lightweight, on-the-fly, and universally adaptable being the target. I want to GAME again; not "rules-check" anymore (and we're doing that every stinkin' round with PF2, seems like).

Four classes. Subtypes. Archetypes. Dump multiclassing in favor of purchasing cross-class *anything* at a reduced rate of return. Ten levels of progression. Rolled HP. Damage reduction over AC. Characters can do their chosen tricks from the beginning, rather than middle, of their careers. Skip tracking daily resources. Nothing is automatic anymore. Nat 1s make characters die (slightly hyperbolic, that).

And even all of that is more bulky and bloated than necessary for fun gameplay. Some structure is needed; special features do catch players' eyes.
----------
Why is it that 3.x/PF1 just makes more sense? Feels more natural? I played AD&D. I ran 4E for a *long* time. I hate 5E more than I do PF2. But no-upper-limit/big numbers/roll-high gaming is as natural as breathing, to me.

FHDM: Why do you wish for the repair of 3.x, in particular?


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Rules checking goes down considerably as you gain more experience in Pathfinder 2, especially if you have almost no experience with Pathfinder Classic or D&D 3.5 (at least in my observations).


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A couple of changes I've made to Pathfinder 2.

1) Free archetype (this is in the Game Master Guide and I f$&&ing love it).

2) an extra skill increase when you get them, which leads to a more diverse use of tactics as they have more than one thing they're really good at.

I might say f%!* it and give witches a class feat at first level because hex cantrips are not as powerful as wizard thesises or a bard's muse which grant first level class feats and pretty much every witch will pick the cauldron feat anyway.


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Our current GM okayed the free dedication feats back around level 4. But he restricted the options to the circus archetypes from the AP.

*eyerolling barf bonanza*

You're correct in saying that the archetypes open up new tactical choices. I think the free archetype should be a standard inclusion.

But that means that I'm going to wind up building a staff-acrobat evoker . . . . Or should I ask about juggling held charges from my cantrips?


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Political but it amuses me:
Why does this remind me so much of this?


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It was just a plaster cast statue painted gold, supposedly the guy has a prototype made of stainless steel in his shop which he claims is "priceless".

Scarab Sages

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NobodysHome wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Because its the same?


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NobodysHome wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

you gotta be shitting me.


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Yep. Gettin' old.

Already sick of Red Dead Online because of their Herculean efforts to turn what should have been a massive world exploration game into a PvP sandbox, we bought and downloaded Valheim.

It's basically Minecraft with Vikings.

4 hours later it was nearing midnight and we realized we had to stop playing at some point.

This morning even making coffee was hard, and when Impus Minor woke up the first thing he said to me was, "You sound tired, Dad."

Curse my ancient body and its need for sleep! Now I know why old people like to turn into liches!


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How could you possibly be getting old, father? If anything you seem younger as the years go by.

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