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NobodysHome wrote:

Yeah, maybe it was just that the recipe called for a "formal" bechamel, but spending 35 minutes to make a sauce that acts as a conduit for other sauces seems like a lot or work for mac and cheese. It was 20 minutes to get the roux to the right color, then another 15 minutes after adding the milk. And you have to pay attention the whole time to make sure it comes out smooth.

I'm sure it makes amazing mac and cheese, but it just seems like there are easier ways.

For example, our "standard" lasagna is just ground beef, Trader Joe's bolognese, two pounds of mozzarella, a pound of ricotta, some parmesan, and the noodles. It's really easy, and comes out "very good".

This newfangled one was wilted spinach, minced basil, two pounds of ricotta, 9 ounces of mozzarella, some parmesan, homemade tomato sauce (about 90 minutes), homemade bechemel (about 35 minutes), and the noodles. It was over two hours of intensive labor for a lasagna that was "fine".

If it's not "way better than usual", it's not worth the massive increase in effort.

Now, I don't make bechamel often, it's probably been over a year since the last time I did, but I don't think I ever spent more than 10 or 15 minutes on it. The roux shouldn't have any color, and if you heat the milk before adding it, it should be nice and smooth. I guess I'm not making it "properly", but definitely quicker and easier.

Speaking of quick and easy...


captain yesterday wrote:

I had a crew of four other people last night, we did 70 houses in 7 hours. 44 of those houses were adjacent to each other but they all had two or three car garages so I'm counting them.

At any rate, we kicked ass and I made sure they knew what a good job they did.


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NobodysHome wrote:

In short, I made thick white edible goo.

Yum?

draws breath to say something, thinks better of it and remains silent

Scarab Sages

NobodysHome wrote:

Yeah, maybe it was just that the recipe called for a "formal" bechamel, but spending 35 minutes to make a sauce that acts as a conduit for other sauces seems like a lot or work for mac and cheese. It was 20 minutes to get the roux to the right color, then another 15 minutes after adding the milk. And you have to pay attention the whole time to make sure it comes out smooth.

I'm sure it makes amazing mac and cheese, but it just seems like there are easier ways.

For example, our "standard" lasagna is just ground beef, Trader Joe's bolognese, two pounds of mozzarella, a pound of ricotta, some parmesan, and the noodles. It's really easy, and comes out "very good".

This newfangled one was wilted spinach, minced basil, two pounds of ricotta, 9 ounces of mozzarella, some parmesan, homemade tomato sauce (about 90 minutes), homemade bechemel (about 35 minutes), and the noodles. It was over two hours of intensive labor for a lasagna that was "fine".

If it's not "way better than usual", it's not worth the massive increase in effort.

The second one sounds better to me.


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Interviewee...can you please answer one question for me? Please? No, not an answer to a specific question that's burning a hole in my brain, just give me an answer to any one of the questions I've asked you...

Me: Gives scenario.

Candidate: Dead silent for 2 minutes, then "I don't know."

Repeat this pattern for the next three scenarios/questions.

I'm not sure how the other remaining interviews could be worse than this, but I'm feeling negative enough that I'm sure they'll show me something new.


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Sauces can be kind, generous, and many are forgiving. They need to be watched, but not babied. Oh sure, there's fussy ones like some béchamel variants or carbonaras that need a bit of extra attention, but for the most part once you've built a sauce you just need a minute to a few hours of simmering.

They all need flavor though. Many sauces take very basic ingredients like flour and butter plus a liquid, or some pulped or pasted tomatoes, and just build up from there. There's a reason why every town in Italy has it's own alfredo or carbonara variant, and every house has it's own red sauce.

Sauces are a great way to have fun with your food. Ever eat a dry piece of chicken? Now imagine it with some gravy. Now imagine that gravy with mushrooms, or a spike of rosemary; imagine it as a curry instead.

Sauces start with a solid, practical base and build up into delicious expressions of their cook. They can be technical, follow recipes, or they can be reckless, or cruel, or caring and artery hardening. It all comes down to the person and the ingredients they have at hand.

I myself make a LOT of homemade sauces. None of them are Goth Bard's alfredo, I'm certain, but my kids (who never eat much of anything) have raved over my gravies, mac and cheese sauce, peppery alfredo, and others. I end up using a lot of dry seasonings or canned tomatoes, but otherwise try to get fresh stuff for these. The bottom line is that, if you're not putting some measure of yourself, your taste, your own signature, into the sauce, it won't be as good as it can be.

Béchamel to me is boring; as boring as the absolute basic mac and cheese sauce. Take a roux, add milk and salt, and maybe some nutmeg. Whoo hoo. The missing ingredient to finish it is you.

What spices move you? What ingredients do you have, or are native to you, or really move you? NH, you're in California - immediately wine and cheese leap to mind. Then again, depending on what part of CA or the local farms nearby, you could add some citrus or other fresh produce. I myself prefer Chinese hot spice sauce, or black pepper and parmesan cheese, or, if I'm channeling my ma and her love of Simon and Garfunkel, parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme.

Sauces are the vehicle of your passion. They are a liquid hug for your food, or perhaps an elegant piece of art to adorn your dish. Care for them, feed them and let them simmer into what they will become.


Vanykrye wrote:

Interviewee...can you please answer one question for me? Please? No, not an answer to a specific question that's burning a hole in my brain, just give me an answer to any one of the questions I've asked you...

Me: Gives scenario.

Candidate: Dead silent for 2 minutes, then "I don't know."

Repeat this pattern for the next three scenarios/questions.

I'm not sure how the other remaining interviews could be worse than this, but I'm feeling negative enough that I'm sure they'll show me something new.

I'm that person that applies for jobs he has no business applying for.


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Holy s&$%, it's like Masterchef up in here.


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My description of 2020.

"Every day is the same, you put one foot in front of the other and then get ready to dodge the pianos falling from the sky".


Captain Yesterday, FaWtL 6 News wrote:
Holy s$#!, it's like Masterchef up in here.

Well, I am wearing power armor and fighting aliens.

Ohhhhh... Master chef . Nevermind.


Quote:
*folks discussing making sauces and amount of time spent making them, home made lasagna, pasta, and other things*

*me having two store-bought lasagna in the fridge*


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Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
...sauce stuff...

So... my major influences in cooking are Asian (primarily Chinese and Indian, with some Japanese and a touch of Vietnamese). On top of that are the "standards": Roasts, stews, spaghetti and meatballs, and light wine and garlic sauces for shellfish and pasta.

Throughout that repertoire there is no room for thick, heavy sauces. And because the kids have grown up on those cuisines, they don't particularly care for them. GothBard's Alfredo is the best I've ever had anywhere, including high-end Italian restaurants. But she only makes it once every 3-4 years because the kids won't eat it; it's too "heavy".

So in my mind it's:
(1) Make the sauce according to its original recipe to taste it in its purest form.
(2) Decide whether it fits into your repertoire.
(3) Customize the sauce to make it your own.

Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.


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Getting ready for the first of three substantial snow storms (6+ inches of snow each) in the next 6 days.


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captain yesterday wrote:
Getting ready for the first of three substantial snow storms (6+ inches of snow each) in the next 6 days.

And this is where Cap single-handedly lowers the number of employees in his company in very short order, and his boss just rolls his eyes and starts calling people at random in the Madison area..."Surely there's *somebody* around here..."


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The boss is active on Facebook so there is no shortage of fodder for me to toss in the ditch on my way to the next job.

Silver Crusade

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I don’t punch up my lasagna with fancy sauces - that’s too much work for too little difference.

When I want to elevate my lasagna I focus on the quality of meat and cheese. Some good quality sausage filling, fresh (preferably made that day) mozzarella, and artisanal ricotta will make an immediately noticeable difference without having to stand over a sauce for 20 minutes.

Edit: Admittedly, it helps living in NY, where there’s a mom-and-pop Italian deli on every corner that sells all that stuff.


Hello, everyone.


Hiya


I'm a midwestern boy, through and through, so heavy sauces are my jam. It's not for everyone, I get it. Still, I learned a lot from my brother and have made homemade pestos, mole sauces, curries, lighter wine-based sauces, and a LOT of different tomato-based sauces.

Ironically I've never experimented much with Asian cuisine so if I can't stir-fry it in soy or fish sauce, I don't really cook it. The exception to that are some Indian rice dishes that I really enjoy. Spinach, tomato sauce and yogurt or maybe cream in a variety of permutations is just good times!

Spoiler:
I used to really love cooking. Like, it was a passion of mine. Divorce and depression really sapped that out of me. Even now I find making much more than a simple pasta meal just too much effort, most of the time.

Every once in a while though I like to flex in the kitchen. I never make anything really gourmet. Most of my recipes at some point involve something from a can and most, if not all, dry spices. Still, it's fun to just chop and sauté and so on. I'm basically cooking for one when I make these meals, so they're usually meat-based things I can then freeze and turn into other meals later.

This is why sauces are still such a big part of my cooking. Its a way to fancy up a common dish. Plus, with quarantine still in full effect coupled with the same 6 days worth of snow the good Captain is going to be handling, goodness knows I've got the TIME to simmer something for 20 minutes on the stove!

Then, y'know, because I'm me, there's a personal connection I have to gravies in general. My ma used to make chicken, pork and beef gravy all the time. She'd save it up, store just the sauce in the fridge, and then to save money she'd buy those packs of Buddig beef lunchmeat. Gravy over beef, served on toast; that was a weekly staple in my house growing up.

So yeah, I'm a sap in the kitchen too I guess :)

CY, thanks for keeping on top of the snow in WI. I've got a few buddies that do that over here in MN. Please stay safe.


Celestial Healer wrote:

I don’t punch up my lasagna with fancy sauces - that’s too much work for too little difference.

When I want to elevate my lasagna I focus on the quality of meat and cheese. Some good quality sausage filling, fresh (preferably made that day) mozzarella, and artisanal ricotta will make an immediately noticeable difference without having to stand over a sauce for 20 minutes.

Edit: Admittedly, it helps living in NY, where there’s a mom-and-pop Italian deli on every corner that sells all that stuff.

Color me jealous. I used to know a guy up here that hunted a lot and made his own sausage, sometimes from venison, but he moved to CO. Otherwise any decent butchered meats or non-mass-produced sausage costs me an arm and a leg. I usually just cruise the sales at the local supermarket and make what I can from what they have to offer.


Speaking of ideas that look great on paper but are a nightmare to actually execute: Cursed items.

There are a few, such as the Cloak of Immolation or the Stone of Weight where the moment the PC picks it up or puts it on, it's obvious that it's a cursed item. But something like the Ring of Clumsiness is a constant bookkeeping nightmare for the GM ("OK, was that a DEX-based roll? Subtract 2 and...", "Oh, yeah, their AC is 2 lower so since I'm swinging at them I have to call out a number two higher than I actually roll", "Was that an arcane cast? I need to roll spell failure without them noticing..."

So I like sneaking in cursed items on occasion, but hoo, boy, I really prefer the ones where the effects are immediately obvious.


Cursed items are stupid, I never use them.


NobodysHome wrote:

Speaking of ideas that look great on paper but are a nightmare to actually execute: Cursed items.

There are a few, such as the Cloak of Immolation or the Stone of Weight where the moment the PC picks it up or puts it on, it's obvious that it's a cursed item. But something like the Ring of Clumsiness is a constant bookkeeping nightmare for the GM ("OK, was that a DEX-based roll? Subtract 2 and...", "Oh, yeah, their AC is 2 lower so since I'm swinging at them I have to call out a number two higher than I actually roll", "Was that an arcane cast? I need to roll spell failure without them noticing..."

So I like sneaking in cursed items on occasion, but hoo, boy, I really prefer the ones where the effects are immediately obvious.

In that specific DEX-based case, you should be able to clue them in that something is amiss on their next initiative check.

The last time I had a cursed item in play that was similar (-4 to DEX-based rolls in this case), this conversation happened:

Ok team, time for Acrobatics checks to maintain your footing!

Player 1: Made a 16.
Player 2: Made a 12.
Player 3: I rolled badly. Only hit a 37.
Players 1, 2, and 4: Shut up, Dave! (apologies to anyone named Dave)
Player 4: Also a 16.

So players 1 and 3, you succeed.

And now you wait for them to realize that 1 and 4 both made the same DC. In my case I then described it as the item throwing them off-balance.


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Fantasy NPC: Dagga, The Singer


One thing I did this year was embrace doing different things, on account that the world might collapse into chaos at any time so why not.

So, these are the different RPGs I've tried, or tried to get other people to try this year.

Rifts
TMNT - After the Bomb
Dead Reign - The Zombie Apocalypse
Nightbane
Tales From The Loop/Things From The Flood
Ork! The Roleplaying Game
Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition
Bunnies and Burrows (the Frog God Games version).

I also got the 3.5 Eberron campaign setting.

Scarab Sages

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NobodysHome wrote:
Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
...sauce stuff...

So... my major influences in cooking are Asian (primarily Chinese and Indian, with some Japanese and a touch of Vietnamese). On top of that are the "standards": Roasts, stews, spaghetti and meatballs, and light wine and garlic sauces for shellfish and pasta.

Throughout that repertoire there is no room for thick, heavy sauces. And because the kids have grown up on those cuisines, they don't particularly care for them. GothBard's Alfredo is the best I've ever had anywhere, including high-end Italian restaurants. But she only makes it once every 3-4 years because the kids won't eat it; it's too "heavy".

So in my mind it's:
(1) Make the sauce according to its original recipe to taste it in its purest form.
(2) Decide whether it fits into your repertoire.
(3) Customize the sauce to make it your own.

Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.

When its safe to travel for pleasure again I am coming to visit and I demand Gothbards Alfredo or I will cause a riot ;)

Scarab Sages

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Talking about all this food, I should totaly get back to the farmers market when the lockdown ends because now I crave horse sausage.


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CY, how did TMNT/Rifts go? For fun in a TMNT game, throw in the fighting styles from Ninjas and Superspies!

NH, on Cursed Items:

Per the SRD these items can be ID'd by exceeding the DC to ID by 10. I have a buddy that plays in 2 of my games, and always plays an arcane full caster as well as maxing out that PC's Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana. Unless I drop cursed items on the PCs early in the game, his ability to ID these items by RAW before they're even an issue makes them moot. In short, I agree with CY and rarely have them in my game.


Woran wrote:
Talking about all this food, I should totaly get back to the farmers market when the lockdown ends because now I crave horse sausage.

I'm sorry, did you say... horse sausage? I don't know whether to be grossed out or impressed.

Silver Crusade

Horse meat is curiously taboo in the US, despite its near-ubiquitous consumption almost everywhere else.


Woran wrote:
Talking about all this food, I should totaly get back to the farmers market when the lockdown ends because now I crave horse sausage.

Yum-yum.


Considering that every horse I've met wants to kill me you'd think I'd be all in on carving on up, but I must I don't think I could stomach eating one.


Americans consider horses pets, much like cats and dogs. So the prohibition against eating them is very much the one against eating pets.


Speaking of poor communication skills, in the mail today we received a present for Impus Minor from Younger Uncle. Who did not communicate with us at all that he'd bought anything, so Impus Minor already has one.

I'm going to try to return the one *I* bought for credit, but jeez...


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Impus Major: Which is a better song to represent 2020? The March of the Tin Foil Hats by Neil Patrick Johannson, or Down with the Sickness by Disturbed?
NobodysHome: Obviously Tin Foil Hats. If we didn't have so many tin foil hats out there, we wouldn't have nearly as much issue with the sickness...


Hey, NH, can you send your tax guy's contact info to my gmail, please?
I have a choir friend in Albany whose tax guy is retiring, and she's looking for someone solid and trustworthy.


lisamarlene wrote:

Hey, NH, can you send your tax guy's contact info to my gmail, please?

I have a choir friend in Albany whose tax guy is retiring, and she's looking for someone solid and trustworthy.

Done.


NobodysHome wrote:
lisamarlene wrote:

Hey, NH, can you send your tax guy's contact info to my gmail, please?

I have a choir friend in Albany whose tax guy is retiring, and she's looking for someone solid and trustworthy.
Done.

Thank you.


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NobodysHome wrote:
Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.

How will you make chipped beef without it?


Trying a new recipe tonight: miso-glazed grilled eggplant and green beans over buckwheat soba.


Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

CY, how did TMNT/Rifts go? For fun in a TMNT game, throw in the fighting styles from Ninjas and Superspies!

NH, on Cursed Items:

Per the SRD these items can be ID'd by exceeding the DC to ID by 10. I have a buddy that plays in 2 of my games, and always plays an arcane full caster as well as maxing out that PC's Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana. Unless I drop cursed items on the PCs early in the game, his ability to ID these items by RAW before they're even an issue makes them moot. In short, I agree with CY and rarely have them in my game.

Oh, I'd been playing both for years.

They're both pretty confusing to play if you use the rules literally, they're both mostly vessels for a really intricate character creation and skill system.

Everything else is secondary, even combat is secondary in experience gained compared to skill checks.


Treppa wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.
How will you make chipped beef without it?

Exactly! Or other cream-based gravies? They're mostly variants of bechamel.


gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.
How will you make chipped beef without it?
Exactly! Or other cream-based gravies? They're mostly variants of bechamel.

Biscuits and gravy

Fried chicken gravy on mashed potatoes
Turkey gravy on dressing

The basics!

That's a peculiar carriage return. Doesn't come out when I delete the y, the line break, and the F and then retype them.


gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.
How will you make chipped beef without it?
Exactly! Or other cream-based gravies? They're mostly variants of bechamel.

I'll politely disagree, and use CrystalSeas' convenient list:

(1) Chipped beef: Don't eat it nor make it, because I have sense.

(2) Fried chicken gravy: I've never served gravy with fried chicken, and I can't imagine doing do. Seems overwhelming. And when I make gravy for my roast chicken, I use the chicken drippings rather than milk, so it's technically a veloute, not a bechamel.

(3) Biscuits and gravy: Yes, it's a bechamel. But I don't care for it, and I've never made it. I even had an honest-to-goodness Southerner (Shiro's from Kentucky) make up a batch of homemade biscuits and gravy from scratch for me and GothBard. GothBard was in Heaven. I didn't care for it. Too heavy.

(4) Turkey gravy: Again, a veloute, not a bechamel.

EDIT: You're dealing with a home-grown Californian. We typically don't do cream gravies or heavy sauces. There are a handful of exceptions (most Californians like biscuits and gravy, and then there's cheese sauce for broccoli and mac and cheese), but for the most part we're a veloute crowd.


NobodysHome wrote:
Americans consider horses pets, much like cats and dogs. So the prohibition against eating them is very much the one against eating pets.

Silly Americans!


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*listens to Wintersun's "Time"*

That would be great music if they cut out the vocal :(


NobodysHome wrote:
gran rey de los mono wrote:
Treppa wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Bechamel dismally fails criterion #2, so there's no reason to bother with #3.
How will you make chipped beef without it?
Exactly! Or other cream-based gravies? They're mostly variants of bechamel.

I'll politely disagree, and use CrystalSeas' convenient list:

(1) Chipped beef: Don't eat it nor make it, because I have sense

I admit, it's not the greatest thing ever, but SOS was a part of my childhood. So there's some nostalgia there.

Do you like souffle? A lot of those start with a bechamel.


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NobodysHome wrote:
Americans consider horses pets, much like cats and dogs. So the prohibition against eating them is very much the one against eating pets.

I don't consider humans to be pets, so I guess it is ok to eat them. ~makes a face~ But too many artificial ingredients in them to make them tasty.


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James Burke's Connections series


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James Burke's The Day the Universe Changed series

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