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My view on LMs property saga:
Under UK law:
LM cannot sue any of the shoddy contractors. She does not have a contract with them.
Generally third parties have no rights under a contract, unless if the third party is specifically mentioned in the contract as someone authorised to do so, and secondly if the contract "purports to confer a benefit" on him.
And the said third party must be identified by name or as a member of a particular group, and does not need to exist when the contract was made.
I doubt the property manager's contract with his shoddy contractors mention LM, or her family at all.
LM could bring an action against the property manager for the shoddy work his contractors did, and claim for damages, under breach of contract, since she has a contract with him and he's supposed to provide certain amenities in the house.
It would be up to the property manager to sue those shoddy contractors for damages.
Yeah not a very satisfying resolution, but alas, that's the way the law is.
For most contracts at least here, they recommend out of court settlement, so it's cheaper. Else you'd need to get a lawyer to serve notice.
But this is from the perspective of UK law.

Sharoth |
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Just a heads up.
New ransomware arrives with a hidden feature that hints at more sophisticated attacks to come
Remember, back up your system often. I suggest backing up every month to week, depending upon how much you do and how important. Use a rotating system. Use at least two different backup mediums. And keep a set off site in case of emergency. Example - I back up my system every month. I use a set of CDs and memory sticks. I have 6 sets of each. I number them backup # 1 through # 6. That is a total of 6 sets of disks and memory sticks. I keep the most recent at home and shift the second most recent over to my Mom's house. I do the same for her. Things to back up - Documents, photos, your favorites list from IE and Firefox / Chrome, any programs that are not easy to replace, CD keys, ect. I also highly suggest getting a battery backup for all computers. I plug that into a good power strip. Make sure that you register both so if your get struck by lightning, you might get your computer replaced. Having said that, I actually suggest just unplugging your computer during a thunderstorm or if you leave the house for more than a day.

The Game Hamster |
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what does the hamster do while he isn't posting on here?
find out about cool physical geometric shapes.

Sir Limey De Longears |
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S***show Update, Day Seven:
So last week, after we discovered that the gas line to the house was leaking and the plumbers would need to replace it before we could get the stove and water heater running, we also noticed that the water heater did not have a drain pan installed underneath it. Kinda bad, because if it leaks (which water heaters will invariably do), it goes straight into the wooden support underneath, and I'm allergic to mold.
So they sent an unlicensed contractor with no plumbing skills to "fix" it. I caught him watching YouTube videos in the hallway because he didn't know what he was doing. He managed to crack the heater drain valve so, yes, it started leaking. So he disconnected it, which is why we've had no water to the showers since Friday.
Then he lied to his boss about it. He has since been fired.
Then his boss got fired by the property manager.Yesterday, after the (good, licensed, and therefore expensive) plumber spent all day replacing the gas line, he tested it, found it ready, and called in to the city for an inspection.
When the city inspector arrived today, he found *another* unlicensed contractor attempting to fix what the first guy had messed up. This guy broke off the PVC pipe that had been in the water heater drain valve, flooded the floor with water, and then blew our inspection of the new gas line by opting to replace a bent valve, which released the test pressure.Just then a THIRD unlicensed contractor arrived at the door as back-up for guy number two. The city inspector kicked them both out of the house, red tagged our water heater for five separate hazardous conditions, and notified the "contractors" of potential $4000 fines per violation.
So Whingey Wizzard sent a lengthy angry email to the property manager, who is somewhere in Georgia, who promptly called him back and promised us to credit us this month's prorated rent off of next month's rent and to fix everything by Friday. Allegedly the GOOD plumber who replaced the gas line is supposed to come...
Hark! Thou hearest ye snorting of beasts and ye jingling of harness as a convoy of carts pull up outside Chateau Marlene
Fair lady, thy job lot of pikes and anti cowboy contractor bardiches hath arrivedeth. Kindly sign thou here.

Tacticslion |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

S***show Update, Day Seven:
So last week, after we discovered that the gas line to the house was leaking and the plumbers would need to replace it before we could get the stove and water heater running, we also noticed that the water heater did not have a drain pan installed underneath it. Kinda bad, because if it leaks (which water heaters will invariably do), it goes straight into the wooden support underneath, and I'm allergic to mold.
So they sent an unlicensed contractor with no plumbing skills to "fix" it. I caught him watching YouTube videos in the hallway because he didn't know what he was doing. He managed to crack the heater drain valve so, yes, it started leaking. So he disconnected it, which is why we've had no water to the showers since Friday.
Then he lied to his boss about it. He has since been fired.
Then his boss got fired by the property manager.Yesterday, after the (good, licensed, and therefore expensive) plumber spent all day replacing the gas line, he tested it, found it ready, and called in to the city for an inspection.
When the city inspector arrived today, he found *another* unlicensed contractor attempting to fix what the first guy had messed up. This guy broke off the PVC pipe that had been in the water heater drain valve, flooded the floor with water, and then blew our inspection of the new gas line by opting to replace a bent valve, which released the test pressure.Just then a THIRD unlicensed contractor arrived at the door as back-up for guy number two. The city inspector kicked them both out of the house, red tagged our water heater for five separate hazardous conditions, and notified the "contractors" of potential $4000 fines per violation.
So Whingey Wizzard sent a lengthy angry email to the property manager, who is somewhere in Georgia, who promptly called him back and promised us to credit us this month's prorated rent off of next month's rent and to fix everything by Friday. Allegedly the GOOD plumber who replaced the gas line is supposed to come out tomorrow with his partner and replace the water heater and anything else associated with it that he thinks needs replacing.
But in the meantime, ALL the water to the house has been shut off. As in we can't even flush the toilets. So I bought five gallons of water at Kroger for washing, teeth brushing and coffee.
I WANT HEADS ON PIKES.
Forget "getting medieval" on someone, I want to sic George R. R. Martin on them.This is no longer funny or farcical, I am no longer ready to laugh at the absurdity, it is no longer an adventure, I AM F***ING P*$$ED OFF.
This is... terrible. I'm so sorry.
S***show
gas line
plumbers
no plumbing skills
plumber
gas
plumber
gas line
we can't even flush the toilets.
I AM F***ING P*$$ED OFF.
*snicker* YES, I'M TWELVE
S***show
gas
I AM F***ING P*$$ED OFF.
... but I thought you said,
we can't even flush the toilets.
G'NIGHT EVERYBODY~!
Believe it or not, I am not making fun of your troubles. Having been there in the past, I know exactly how horrible and frustrating it can be, only it's much worse for you, because you have kids and are still in the midst of a move. Instead, these are the kinds of jokes I would make about us and our family, had it happened, because, honestly, in the heat of fury and frustration... we just had to laugh. It was horrible, it was miserable, and it wasn't fun or funny, but laughter helped, in whatever little way, and so, I hope, it helps you, in whatever little way. If it seems offensive, I apologize - I just want to reach out and help, and, since I can't, this and prayer are all I've got. An, yeah, know this: you and your family are prayed for.

Freehold DM |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

S***show Update, Day Seven:
So last week, after we discovered that the gas line to the house was leaking and the plumbers would need to replace it before we could get the stove and water heater running, we also noticed that the water heater did not have a drain pan installed underneath it. Kinda bad, because if it leaks (which water heaters will invariably do), it goes straight into the wooden support underneath, and I'm allergic to mold.
So they sent an unlicensed contractor with no plumbing skills to "fix" it. I caught him watching YouTube videos in the hallway because he didn't know what he was doing. He managed to crack the heater drain valve so, yes, it started leaking. So he disconnected it, which is why we've had no water to the showers since Friday.
Then he lied to his boss about it. He has since been fired.
Then his boss got fired by the property manager.Yesterday, after the (good, licensed, and therefore expensive) plumber spent all day replacing the gas line, he tested it, found it ready, and called in to the city for an inspection.
When the city inspector arrived today, he found *another* unlicensed contractor attempting to fix what the first guy had messed up. This guy broke off the PVC pipe that had been in the water heater drain valve, flooded the floor with water, and then blew our inspection of the new gas line by opting to replace a bent valve, which released the test pressure.Just then a THIRD unlicensed contractor arrived at the door as back-up for guy number two. The city inspector kicked them both out of the house, red tagged our water heater for five separate hazardous conditions, and notified the "contractors" of potential $4000 fines per violation.
So Whingey Wizzard sent a lengthy angry email to the property manager, who is somewhere in Georgia, who promptly called him back and promised us to credit us this month's prorated rent off of next month's rent and to fix everything by Friday. Allegedly the GOOD plumber who replaced the gas line is supposed to come...
what in the name of god is going on here? That is insane!

Freehold DM |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

lisamarlene wrote:captain yesterday wrote:Oh, you've been to Minocqua?What I said "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that s&+#hole, I f@#%ing hate that town!"
What my brother said I said "Captain Yesterday has a previous engagement and sends his regrets"
Lucky for him I'm not in Facebook and can't contradict him.
Monroe.
But yes, I've been to Minocqua, it is also a s&&#hole.
I want to see these places now.

Freehold DM |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

That said, this is 2018, heads should definitely roll, or at least another month shaved off your rent.
I'm starting to get memories of former coworkers on second job telling similar tales of their time living in Texas. at least one didnt pay rent for just under a year because of similar issues, I think they had to get water from outside, being it upstairs and pour in order to flush/bathe, etc. Cant remember specifics but it was something like that. I will not go into flaming bike territory, but I think this has to do with Texas' "business friendly" environment more so than anything else...never know who you are hiring.

lisamarlene |
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Yeah, I hadn't been telling you the whole story.
I've been trying SO HARD to find the humor and absurdity in all of this and make the best of it.
But the toilets getting turned off, too...
I like to camp. And I grew up in the backwoods; I don't mind cooking over a fire and taking a dump in a hole in the woods.
I just don't like the feeling of camp indoors.
The stress is getting to the kids. Teensy Valeros has wet his bed twice this week. (Thank goodness for Crazy Grandma, who took the kids for the day yesterday and took a big bag of Val's linens and kid clothes to wash at her house.)
She asked them if they wanted to sleep at her place last night and Val said, "No thanks, Grandma; your house is too creepy at night."
But we all went out for Tex-Mex (smoked brisket enchiladas FTW), which was a fun escape from all of this.
We will see what happens today. WW also has a job application that is due today, so his dad and stepmom are taking Val and Hermione today.
And, Tac, no worries, we're good.

Vanykrye |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Yeah, I hadn't been telling you the whole story.
I've been trying SO HARD to find the humor and absurdity in all of this and make the best of it.
But the toilets getting turned off, too...
I like to camp. And I grew up in the backwoods; I don't mind cooking over a fire and taking a dump in a hole in the woods.
I just don't like the feeling of camp indoors.
The stress is getting to the kids. Teensy Valeros has wet his bed twice this week. (Thank goodness for Crazy Grandma, who took the kids for the day yesterday and took a big bag of Val's linens and kid clothes to wash at her house.)
She asked them if they wanted to sleep at her place last night and Val said, "No thanks, Grandma; your house is too creepy at night."
But we all went out for Tex-Mex (smoked brisket enchiladas FTW), which was a fun escape from all of this.
We will see what happens today. WW also has a job application that is due today, so his dad and stepmom are taking Val and Hermione today.And, Tac, no worries, we're good.
Tough on the kids. Extra hugs.
My company has had several offices in Texas over the years. We *always* have issues with contractors. Even just getting qualified people to run network cable is next to impossible in Texas.

captain yesterday |
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captain yesterday wrote:I want to see these places now.lisamarlene wrote:captain yesterday wrote:Oh, you've been to Minocqua?What I said "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that s&+#hole, I f@#%ing hate that town!"
What my brother said I said "Captain Yesterday has a previous engagement and sends his regrets"
Lucky for him I'm not in Facebook and can't contradict him.
Monroe.
But yes, I've been to Minocqua, it is also a s&&#hole.
No, you really don't.

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Let's go on an extended ramble on rights to third parties under contract law.
In [Tweddle v Atkinson] it was held that only those who are party to an agreement (outside of one of the well-established exceptional relationships such as agency, bailment or trusteeship) may sue or be sued on it.
Why, you may ask?
In contract law, there are 4 elements that make up a contract, offer, acceptance, intent to create legal relations, consideration.
The focus will be on consideration, which is basically what you're paying the third party for what he promises to do.
Let's say Gran paid me $1 to bake a cake for him today. (we'll say he never mentions what he's going to use the cake for). He invites Freehold, NH, Vidmaster to his house to share the cake I was supposed to bake with them. I'm a lazy arse who spends my day spamming FAWTL boards and I never deliver that cake to Gran.
Vidmaster, Freehold and NH have not paid me anything. So why should they gain the benefit of being able to sue me when they have not even given me anything? Heck, I don't even know who they are. Nor would I have known that my cake would have been eaten by them.
That's why courts generally only let the parties to the contract sue.
Now scenario 2:
I deliver a spoiled cake to Gran, who shares it with Vidmaster 7,Freehold and NH. Everyone gets a stomach ache. Then everyone can bring an action under me as per [Donoghue v Stevenson], since as a manufacturer I owe a duty of care to my consumers(my cake shouldn't give them a stomachache). But that would fall under Tort, and no longer contract law.

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:No, you really don't.captain yesterday wrote:I want to see these places now.lisamarlene wrote:captain yesterday wrote:Oh, you've been to Minocqua?What I said "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that s&+#hole, I f@#%ing hate that town!"
What my brother said I said "Captain Yesterday has a previous engagement and sends his regrets"
Lucky for him I'm not in Facebook and can't contradict him.
Monroe.
But yes, I've been to Minocqua, it is also a s&&#hole.
after today, yes I do.

captain yesterday |

captain yesterday wrote:after today, yes I do.Freehold DM wrote:No, you really don't.captain yesterday wrote:I want to see these places now.lisamarlene wrote:captain yesterday wrote:Oh, you've been to Minocqua?What I said "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that s&+#hole, I f@#%ing hate that town!"
What my brother said I said "Captain Yesterday has a previous engagement and sends his regrets"
Lucky for him I'm not in Facebook and can't contradict him.
Monroe.
But yes, I've been to Minocqua, it is also a s&&#hole.
Not with me.
I'll go anywhere in Wisconsin, but I won't get within ten miles of Monroe.

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:captain yesterday wrote:after today, yes I do.Freehold DM wrote:No, you really don't.captain yesterday wrote:I want to see these places now.lisamarlene wrote:captain yesterday wrote:Oh, you've been to Minocqua?What I said "There is no way in hell I'm going back to that s&+#hole, I f@#%ing hate that town!"
What my brother said I said "Captain Yesterday has a previous engagement and sends his regrets"
Lucky for him I'm not in Facebook and can't contradict him.
Monroe.
But yes, I've been to Minocqua, it is also a s&&#hole.
Not with me.
I'll go anywhere in Wisconsin, but I won't get within ten miles of Monroe.
would I spontaneously combust if I went there?