When selecting ikons, is it possible to have more than one of the same kind?
For example, could I wield two Barrow's Edge ikons so that I could Drink of My Foes every round?
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Nah. You select three ikons, with no wording allowing selecting the same one twice.
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In fact, it's the opposite, because there's no rule prohibiting it, you're not obliged to pick up different ikons, it doesn't say that anywhere.
I've seen interpretations allowing you to use multiple ikons on the same item, since it's possible to have more than one ikon on your body. What you can't do is have more than one ikon active at the same time. But if you want to pick up the same ikon multiple times, unless I'm unintentionally ignoring some rule, there's nothing prohibiting it.
No, but you can still Drink of My Foes every round by using your third action to Shift Immanescence first. Horribly action inefficient, as are other weapon spammable two action transcendances, but you can do it. The three action ones are probably so that you really have a hard bar (unless you take that 1/day feat) against using them back to back, like the 18th level feat for the mega cone and teleport.
In fact, it's the opposite, because there's no rule prohibiting it, you're not obliged to pick up different ikons, it doesn't say that anywhere.
If it doesn't say, then it is ambiguous. You can't use rules that aren't written as RAW.
So we are looking at RAI and balance concerns. The rules for Shift Immanence and Transcendence causing an Ikon to become unpowered indicate that the intent is that you cannot use the same Transcendence ability repeatedly without further action cost (the Shift Immanence action).
So allowing two of the same Ikon chosen in order to bypass that game design intention is causing a balance problem. I would invoke the Ambiguous Rules rule to say that it is not allowed.
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- The default is not being able to take things multiple times.
- It's not really "selecting three ikons" if you're just selecting two.
Or, if you want to say it's ambiguous, it's definitely something that shouldn't be allowed. It takes the class's design, shifting between multiple ikons with benefits that incentive not just sticking to one thing, and turns into spamming one option.
I think it's not allowed by the rules because there's nothing that specifically allows it. I'm willing to settle for "you'll annoy fellow players as a cheesy rules lawyer if you try to 'no rule saying dogs can't play basketball' it".
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I think the phrasing of "Select three ikons from the list on pages 43–47," with the list being a menu of single options, indicates that the intent, at least, is clearly three different ikons.
It's like when you answer an online survey that says select three of the fifteen options that best answer the question. There's only one of, and only one check-box for, each option. You simply cannot select one option multiple times.
Or, like a used car dealership offering you a deal. There are twenty-five cars on the lot, all different makes and models, and you can choose three. It is simply not possible to choose two, or more, of the same make and model because none are duplicated.
Now, the problem with the phrasing, a la the used car lot scenario if the dealership has five units of each of the twenty-five makes and models, you may then select three units of the same make and model.
While I believe the intent is clear, the verbiage is not. Lacking any sort of "you may pick one ikon multiple times" or "you must select a different ikon each time" or, simply, "[s]elect three different ikons from the list..." language, it is ambiguous. Therefore, expect table variation.
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In fact, it's the opposite, because there's no rule prohibiting it, you're not obliged to pick up different ikons, it doesn't say that anywhere.If it doesn't say, then it is ambiguous. You can't use rules that aren't written as RAW.
So we are looking at RAI and balance concerns. The rules for Shift Immanence and Transcendence causing an Ikon to become unpowered indicate that the intent is that you cannot use the same Transcendence ability repeatedly without further action cost (the Shift Immanence action).
So allowing two of the same Ikon chosen in order to bypass that game design intention is causing a balance problem. I would invoke the Ambiguous Rules rule to say that it is not allowed.
Finoan in a TTRPG you are not restricted to doing only what is written, otherwise you do not have a TTRPG game, but rather a board game. Instead, if you do not want to make a homebrew, what you should not do is go against the rules and they are not contrary, not even ambiguous, there is nothing saying the ikon must be different.
- The default is not being able to take things multiple times.
Where is this rule?
All of the game's anti-repetition rules are clear and explicit. You can have 2 identical weapons, a shield in each hand, and multiple items worn and invested. Repetitions are only prevented when the rule explicitly prohibits it, such as the feats rule, or when repetitions are unfeasible because they do not add benefits. Other than that, you can repeat anything in the system as long as you consider it viable and the game does not prohibit it.
Or, if you want to say it's ambiguous, it's definitely something that shouldn't be allowed. It takes the class's design, shifting between multiple ikons with benefits that incentive not just sticking to one thing, and turns into spamming one option.
I think the phrasing of "Select three ikons from the list on pages 43–47," with the list being a menu of single options, indicates that the intent, at least, is clearly three different ikons.
It's like when you answer an online survey that says select three of the fifteen options that best answer the question. There's only one of, and only one check-box for, each option. You simply cannot select one option multiple times.
Or, like a used car dealership offering you a deal. There are twenty-five cars on the lot, all different makes and models, and you can choose three. It is simply not possible to choose two, or more, of the same make and model because none are duplicated.
Now, the problem with the phrasing, a la the used car lot scenario if the dealership has five units of each of the twenty-five makes and models, you may then select three units of the same make and model.
While I believe the intent is clear, the verbiage is not. Lacking any sort of "you may pick one ikon multiple times" or "you must select a different ikon each time" or, simply, "[s]elect three different ikons from the list..." language, it is ambiguous. Therefore, expect table variation.
It looks that way because it was originally designed that way, and if you participated in the playtest then you'll get that feeling in your memory. But it was removed from the final version, the writing still remains similar to when it was forbidden because it was simply used. But the restriction itself was removed. If a player wants to reduce his versatility to guarantee an Immanence by sacrificing an Ikon, he can.
It's important to note that the game doesn't impose a requirement to get different ikons anywhere; it simply doesn't mention the word "different" or any synonym anywhere that talks about ikons. The rules simply say that you start with 3 ikons and that when you use Shift Immanence or Spark Transcendence, you can't use Transcendence more than once per round. So it's presumptuous to think that the absence of this explicit restriction makes it implicit.
That's why I can't interpret it any other way than the fact that it is possible to have 2 identical ikons, and I'll go even further, I consider that considering it mandatory to get different ikons is a homebrew and not an interpretation, since there's nothing explicit that points in that direction.
It is also worth noting that the restriction of 3 different ikons existed in the playtest and was removed from the final version. This opens up a real possibility that the intention is to allow fully repeated ikons (and not only ikons of different types).
Playtest:
Within your soul is a tiny spark of divine power that belongs not to a deity but something all your own. You can manifest this divine power through special items known as ikons. Ikons are items intrinsically linked to you—sacred vessels crystallized from your divinity that are capable of legendary feats in your hands. There are
three types of ikons: body ikons are a mark on your flesh that shows you as more than mortal, worn ikons are sacred clothing or other raiment, and weapon ikons let you carve your story onto the world. Choose three ikons, one of each type, from the list on pages 22–24. Your body takes on the qualities of your chosen body ikon, and you gain non-magical, level-0 items of your choice that satisfy the requirements for your chosen worn ikon and weapon ikon. Providence ensures you come across these items; you might be traveling along a path to find a spear in a tree that only you can dislodge, or you might awaken holding a gleaming sash you saw in your dreams. More information on ikons can be found on page 22.
Final:
Within your soul is a tiny spark of divine power that belongs not to a deity, but is something you've claimed all your own. You can focus this divine power through special items known as ikons. Ikons are items or bodily features intrinsically linked to you—sacred vessels forged from your divinity that are capable of conducting its power. Select three ikons from the list on pages 43–47.