Just looking through the Gunslinger, I really like it. Lost of neat stuff, already have a PFS character in mind, :).
Only a minor issue at first glance . . . what's with the skills?
I know it is a variation of the fighter class (sorta), but really, Handle Animal? Swim and Climb? Ok maybe the last two aren't too bad, but those instead of Perception? I mean Grit is based on Wisdom correct? And a primarily ranged combatant should be able to see/notice the world around them correct. If the gunslinger didn't see the monster coming, how on earth would the be able to gunsling well if it can get to melee range before the GS gets a shot off.
Yes I know this is kind of a dramatic example, but it just seems like Perception makes more sense than some of the skill choices outlined in the playtest.
I figured it was a typo, but if it is not ya perception should be on the list
so should fighters, yet we have been told repeatedly they do not need it. If archers and crossbowmen do not have it and do not need it as a class skill, then why should gunslingers?
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so should fighters, yet we have been told repeatedly they do not need it. So ya know gunslingers should not have it either.
See I think that the Gunslinger as a variant of Fighter makes sense, but a ranged combatant focused on precision and a melee combatant focused on wearing large pieces of metal fused together are two different things.
I have to get behind the "give gunslinger perception" band wagon.
Archers and crossbowmen {with weapons with way longer ranges} did not get this skill. So why should the gunslinger?
They are the same as a gunslinger, focused on the same kind of thing, yet do not get this oh so needed skill.
Another vote for the "give it to all or give it to none" camp.
If the gunslinger "archetype" (or is it "alternate class" now?) gets perception as a base skill, so should the other ranged-focused fighter archetypes.
Personally, I think the gunslinger should have disable device as well. They seem kind of rogueish to me, and they have knowledge (engineering) anyway.
Sure, Han Solo botched his attempt to hack that panel in Return of the Jedi, but I think we should give him the benefit of doubt and say that the DC was really really high. ;) (though I guess you could argue he was multiclassed into rogue)
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Another vote for the "give it to all or give it to none" camp.
If the gunslinger "archetype" (or is it "alternate class" now?) gets perception as a base skill, so should the other ranged-focused fighter archetypes.
See I have no qualms with giving the ranged fighter variants perception. The melee fighter I'm a bit more opposed to.
See at my table I just give fighters perception. I always hated that my on duty Guards for some reason were really horrible at protecting anything as they never saw it coming. That's just me, and I'm totally for giving perception to gunslingers.... and archers... and crossbowmen.... and fighters in general.
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Heh... I normally try to avoid getting TOO involved in playtests, since that tends to do weird things to skew the results... but I'd like to add my support to the "Let's give Gunslingers Perception as a class skill."
Me too. The class seems to be flavored around the gunslingers of Gilead, the most famous of which was described as having eyes akin to an eagle's. Perception, please.
The only thinking I can see against it is, they're a martial type who is already going to be paying some attention to having a good Wisdom mod. As such, if they get Perception as a class skill, they're instantly going to be one of the better classes at it.
To which I say, good. They should be. Woot!
so should fighters, yet we have been told repeatedly they do not need it. If archers and crossbowmen do not have it and do not need it as a class skill, then why should gunslingers?I think that merely makes the case for expanding the Fighter's skill list, rather than limiting the Gunslinger, no?
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That is the thing, I pushed hard for that among other skill changes for the fighter in the play test. I was told, many times it DID NOT NEED IT.
So if the fighter is not given a skill and its archetypes are also not given the skill, why should this one gain it? It clearly does not need it ny more then the fighter does.
Now if they update the fighter to allow it cool, if not then the gunslinger does not need it either.
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See at my table I just give fighters perception. I always hated that my on duty Guards for some reason were really horrible at protecting anything as they never saw it coming. That's just me, and I'm totally for giving perception to gunslingers.... and archers... and crossbowmen.... and fighters in general.
I like to think of that as in countless movies in which the heroes sneak past the clueless guards.
But back on topic, with wisdom as one of their primary abilities, it kinda makes up for them not getting the bonus 3 points for it being a class skill.
That is the thing, I pushed hard for that among other skill changes for the fighter in the play test. I was told, many times it DID NOT NEED IT.So if the fighter is not given a skill and its archetypes are also not given the skill, why should this one gain it? It clearly does not need it ny more then the fighter does.
Now if they update the fighter to allow it cool, if not then the gunslinger does not need it either.
I wish I would have known about the Pathfinder playtest before I did. I would have been in the trenches with you on this one. I think every class should have perception, but no need to go into a rant now so I will stop here.
I wish I would have known about the Pathfinder playtest before I did. I would have been in the trenches with you on this one. I think every class should have perception, but no need to go into a rant now so I will stop here.
My two big ones people got sick of me bringing up in every thread even slightly related to the topic was skill list and 2 skill points per level.
I just do not see why this ranged combat specialized fighter should have it when other range combat specialized fighter do not.
Slightly off-topic: Why Handle Animal? Cowboys, man, they had to have horses. However, giving them Handle Animal over Perception is... Yeah.
On the other hand! With the maximum range of a rifle being a mere 200ft (as opposed to the insane range of a longbow: 500/550ft)... maybe a gunslinger is a less likely candidate than the crossbowman or archer.
I dislike that aspect, but for the tradeoffs (x4 crit? Ranged touch attacks?) I can live with it.
This just adds to my feeling that the Gunslinger should be moved to a base class, then no worries about baseing class skills of of the Fighters.
I was half expecting the Gunslinger to have 4+int for skills, actually. Agree with you on all ponts!
All fighters should have this as an option, even if it's just a feat (i.e. feat tax) to do so.
I'll jump on the perception bandwagon. And the 4+ skills option for fighters too. They had it as an option in the Pathfinder campaign setting book(Yes, I know that book is 3.5). I think it was called Fighter College or some such.
Ok,
I agree, the gunslinger needs Perception. I usually make that a class skill for everyone anyway.
As to the argument they shouldn't get it if bowmen/crossbowmen don't because bowmen/crossbowmen get better range... sorry, it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
A gunslinger doesn't need perception to see in the distance. Perception has nothing to do with range penalties.
A gunslinger needs perception to pick up on the subtle clues that their opponent is about to go for their gun! Think about every gunfight you've ever seen in a movie. There's always that point waiting for the other person to commit. It's that point when everything comes to a head, and you need perception for that.
Personally, I think they need Perception and Sense Motive, and to heck with Handle Animal, climb, and swim.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I'll jump on the perception bandwagon. And the 4+ skills option for fighters too. They had it as an option in the Pathfinder campaign setting book(Yes, I know that book is 3.5). I think it was called Fighter College or some such.
They did not get perception.
Fighter: Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (pg 45)
Class Skills: A fighter trained at a famous war college or fighting school gains the following class skills (in addition to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (architecture and engineering)(Int), Knowledge (geography)(Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty)(Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier
Class Abilities: Numerous martial academies around the Inner Sea region teach weapon skill, tactics, diplomacy, and other tools useful for war. Fighters who attend these schools may choose the above option, which replaces the bonus feat gained upon taking the first level of fighter.
Updated
Class Skills: A fighter trained at a famous war college or fighting school gains the following class skills (in addition to the normal fighter class skills): Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (geography)(Int), Knowledge (nobility)(Int), Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier
Class Abilities: Numerous martial academies around the Inner Sea region teach weapon skill, tactics, diplomacy, and other tools useful for war. Fighters who attend these schools may choose the above option, which replaces the bonus feat gained upon taking the first level of fighter.
I'll jump on the perception bandwagon. And the 4+ skills option for fighters too. They had it as an option in the Pathfinder campaign setting book(Yes, I know that book is 3.5). I think it was called Fighter College or some such.They did not get perception.
I didn't say they did. I was saying that Gunslingers and for that matter most fighters should. And that the option for 4+ skills should be available.
The only classes that should have 2+int skills are the ones that spend their entire lives trying to master horrifying reality bending power and thus have no time to learn how to do other things, ie spellcasters.