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I'm just seeing if anyone else thinks that the Ranger Template would be more appropriate than the rogue template?
I had some thoughts on it as a base class but those thoughts were basically a ranger template with specific arcane spells rather than divine spells, swapping out Favored enemy and terrain for tricks.
Rather than threadjack elsewhere I wanted to see if others felt the same way and to discuss what template is the best starting point, Rogue, Ranger, or perhaps even monk.
i never thought ranger, I actually like the idea of a monk/rogue class, its like giving a monk weapons.
Id be okay with either as a starting point, although id have to double check i think there is an alignment restriction preventing ninja monks so it really is just using those two classes
I'm still in favor of 3 or 4 achetypes. There is to much "ninja awesome" that needs to covered to fit in one archetype let alone a single class.
Ranger, Monk, Rogue, possibly even as the Magus.
Up to this point, I've always had the ninja be a template applied to a character, they get assassinate and stealth or disguise as class skills. and if it's a ninja campaign the whole group gets it... makes it simple. that way you can be a fighter (ninja) or a rogue (ninja) or a wizard (ninja), i guess now you can be a ninja (ninja)
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i never thought ranger, I actually like the idea of a monk/rogue class, its like giving a monk weapons.
Id be okay with either as a starting point, although id have to double check i think there is an alignment restriction preventing ninja monks so it really is just using those two classes
I kind of view a ninja as a mystical aracane martial class, in the same way the ranger is a divinely attuned martial class.
You can get all of the things you want a ninja to have in the 4 levels of spell slots the ranger has available, you can swap out favored enemies and combat features for unarmored combat and poison training, and I think it would cover all the bases.
Sneak attack never fit into my concept of a ninja, as it always seemed more like a dirty trick of a "rogueish" person, kind of like kicking someone in the nuts.
If you look at the spell list in the link I posted above, I think you'd agree it covers all of the bases without being over powered or shoehorning mystical ability into "talents"
I kind of view a ninja as a mystical aracane martial class, in the same way the ranger is a divinely attuned martial class.
You can get all of the things you want a ninja to have in the 4 levels of spell slots the ranger has available, you can swap out favored enemies and combat features for unarmored combat and poison training, and I think it would cover all the bases.
Sneak attack never fit into my concept of a ninja, as it always seemed more like a dirty trick of a "rogueish" person, kind of like kicking someone in the nuts.
If you look at the spell list in the link I posted above, I think you'd agree it covers all of the bases without being over powered or shoehorning mystical ability into "talents"
I just don't think arcane when I think ninja, the monk mystical-ness always fit better for me, and dont confuse your image of sneak attack with your image of dirty hit, a kick in the nuts would not do lethal damage. I always thought of someone stabbing the kidneys or something like that
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I just don't think arcane when I think ninja, the monk mystical-ness always fit better for me, and dont confuse your image of sneak attack with your image of dirty hit, a kick in the nuts would not do lethal damage. I always thought of someone stabbing the kidneys or something like that
I kind of view a ninja as a mystical aracane martial class, in the same way the ranger is a divinely attuned martial class.
You can get all of the things you want a ninja to have in the 4 levels of spell slots the ranger has available, you can swap out favored enemies and combat features for unarmored combat and poison training, and I think it would cover all the bases.
Sneak attack never fit into my concept of a ninja, as it always seemed more like a dirty trick of a "rogueish" person, kind of like kicking someone in the nuts.
If you look at the spell list in the link I posted above, I think you'd agree it covers all of the bases without being over powered or shoehorning mystical ability into "talents"
I just never think of a ninja as a rogue. A rogue is, well, roguish. He lies and steals and stabs you in the back...he's not a trained fighter like, well a fighter. He's not highly disciplined like a monk.
A ninja is highly trained, and highly disciplined.
Ideally, the more this is discussed I think the best plan would be to have several variants representing different ninja clans.
I'm thinking Ranger, Fighter, Monk, and Rogue (maybe inquisitor and alchemist as well) variants, but not any one full base classes.
I think the ninja as is works great for a kunoichi and just fine for a regular ninja. Ninja engaged in open combat as a last resort. While thievery isn't a big part of being a ninja lying, sneaking, and stabbing people in the back is.
Ninja were organized into guilds and rogues are very much associated with guilds in pathfinder. The ninja was an assassin, terrorist, scout, and spy (roles rogues fill better than rangers i feel.)
While the ranger has some validity as a base class for a ninja I would still go with rogue since both are much more socially focused.
I am pretty happy with paizo's ninja, but I could certainly see a ranger ninja archetype, with possibly a variant of favored enemy that only works on humanoids. The divine, nature-based magic certainly fits. Perhaps hunter's bond might be swapped for something.