Assume for a moment that a character doesn't take knowledge arcana as a skill. You start the adventure off and then strand the characters away from civilization. It doesn't matter whether the characters get lost, teleported, or are shipwrecked. The spellcaster is now at a severe disadvantage compared to other classes. The ranged character can still normally fall back to melee weapons and do ok. The...
A spellcaster that doesn't take knowledge(arcana) is self harming himself.
An adventurer stranded far from civilization has other issues with spell casting, such as no access to spells, even if he levels up (no tools to scribe new spells, no 2nd level spell access, etc). A shipwrecked wizard is likely without spell book, so that is also going to crimp his spellcasting.
And, a spellcaster can always fall back to casting spells with no material component. I see it as a way to provide a realistic limitation on spellcasters that's not too onerous but is still more than a one time purchase for 5gp. Additionally, it may encourage the player to look at spells with regards to components and consider taking some spells that don't require components.
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I was referring to the 3.0 spell pouch rules. And them being a legacy carry over to Pf. I would not jeopardize my OSR leanings.It's legacy stupid design, but it's still stupid design.Archibald the Evoker dumps the sand out of his pocket muttering something about traitors in our ranks, while wondering if eBay has already been flooded with bat guano and tiny bells?
"It is with great pleasure I announce that on this day the Cannon of Veluna has issued a stay of execution. Let Houstonderek proceed without delay or hindrance from this place to wherever he may choose."
And surely you joke, 3.0 didn't have rules, it had internally consistent mathematical formulae. Far better than rules...
Anyways back to the original topic.
Allowing magic items to be sold and purchased simply makes for an easier game. The less time people spend worrying about whether you are going to give them the magic items they want or need for their character the more time they can spend roleplaying and adventuring.
My advice would be to run the game as written. If things get out of hand with a character optimizing around specific items and feats then take them aside and have a discussion about how it is affecting the game. Explain that by playing such a character they are making it harder for you to run the game in a manner that everyone will find enjoyable. Hopefully they will be mature enough to deal with the situation and work with you to a decent solution. If they aren't able to deal with it then you are probably better off either dropping them from the game or switching them to a solo campaign.
My personal experience with these kinds of situations has led me to believe that it is better to have the characters content with their items than try to foster some sense of awe and wonder in them over minor things. The items shouldn't be the what the game revolves around. The characters actions should be the focus of the game. Anytime the player spends time worrying about items is time that could have been spent accomplishing something in game instead. After all which is more memorable, finding a +2 longsword with a ten page history at level 10 or using a purchased magic sword to defeat the lich who has been antagonizing your characters for the last 10 levels? Personally I'd rather kill the lich.
but the pouch isn't even a full free feat.
5 gold may be trivial.
but it can be sundered or stolen and it doesn't help you very well when you are grappled or pinned.
unlike the actual feat itself.
here are 2 similar items from the pathfinder SRD. these are both partial feats for 5 gold.
a spiked gauntlet, which is also a 5 gold item, is effectively the improved unarmed strike feat with a larger damage die. you can also get a magic version for far cheaper prices than a monk can get an amulet of mighty fists.
the spring loaded wrist sheathe. this is basically quick draw with a restriction to daggers, it can also be arguably used as improved unarmed strike with a larger damage die and arguably brings back the feel of the 3.5 flick of the wrist feat. the sheathe itself costs 5 gold and can be combined with a dagger fairly easily. this tool is one of a rogue's best friends. it can also be snuck inside cities with weapon restrictions without many too immediate issues.
here is a slightly higher priced item from the SRD that is also similar
masterwork tool. a tool that gives +2 to a given skill associated with it. costs 50 gold pieces and may as well be an extra parital trait. that stacks with the trait itself. partial trait for 50 gold.
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The main point was that a character who isn't around a civilized area has a problem with the spell component pouch if it has limits. I can think of a couple of adventures that could strand you with your gear but isolate you from civilization.
The main point being that by doing this you can end up with players metagaming when they are making their character. I have always viewed metagaming as something to be avoided.
In the end though what works for one group doesn't always work for another group. I may not agree with the way others game but it doesn't mean that they are wrong in how they do it. I only oppose such systems when presented as a everyone should be playing this way.
I would like to thank you all for a very interesting conversation. Overall it has been a rather fun way to pass the time.
To the original OP: Do what works best for your group. Try out the game as written. If you don't like it then change it until you do.
As a side note I would say that D&D and Pathfinder are the only games that I allow the buying and selling of magic items. When I run WFRP 2e I don't ever allow the party to buy magic items. They rarely get them in fact. Fortunately the games rules are designed to support that style of gaming.
Edited for grammar.
what happens when an archers misses with his arrow? or someone makes their saving throw?
While I would be inclined to have the component used up with such a house rule it is better to have definite wording that says that instead of leaving it up to the GM's judgement. After all this is not quite the same as an archers arrows.
Thus such precise rules become a necessity so that characters can plan accordingly.Assume for a moment that a character doesn't take knowledge arcana as a skill. You start the adventure off and then strand the characters away from civilization. It doesn't matter whether the characters get lost, teleported, or are shipwrecked. The spellcaster is now at a severe disadvantage compared to other classes. The ranged character can still normally fall back to melee weapons and do ok. The...
well first off that IS the point after all.
Secondly we are talking about 50 charges, essentially, low level caster would take some doing to blast through 50 charges seeing as they only get a few spells a day as it is, so in two weeks of casting everyday they still have "charges" in the pouch.
(assumming nothing has 'happened' to it)
at high levels there shouldnt be a problem taking knowledge arcana.
there is also fallen enemy spell casters from which you can raid their pouch, to determine how many charges they have, roll percentile, divide by two and subtract the number of spells they just cast that combat, if that would be a negative number then they just used their last bit of "pixie dust" before you laid them low.
I think players will catch on quick and make a few rolls through out the day, and when preparing spells they can make a final roll and whatever they beat the DC by is how many charges they have been able to recover/recharge their pouch with.
At DM's discretion maybe some spells components wont be readily available (like squid tentacles in the desert)
I removed an uncivil post.
I'm also locking this thread, since it's been going around in a big circle for the last few hundred posts, with quite a few people getting more upset than they should.