Help me pick the prohibited schools for my wizard

[Lyrax]

Look. When I give a party treasure, I include the price of each and every scroll. I also include the price of every potion. If the wizard intends to transcribe each scroll to his spellbook, that doesn't mean a cache of scrolls is worth 0 gp to the party. Each scroll is still worth the same gp amount and counts as party treasure.

When I give the party a bunch of potions, those are also considered to be worth gold pieces. Even though they are intended for consumption, and not for long-term use.

If you want to make all consumables worth 0 gp in terms of party loot, that's okay. I don't mind. But your party is going to have lots and lots of loot.

I love wizards. Wizards are my favorite spell casters. But letting them have the bulk of their treasure (i.e. scrolls) for free doesn't seem very fair to me.

[Aelryinth]

Wizards can have as many spells as a sorc. The power of the wizard is to have the right spell for the right solution, and to have more downtime flexibility.

Those are VERY strong benefits. They don't come free. If you want a blaster wizard, you make a sorc. IF you want the crafty bastard who can dig out the right solution to a problem given a little time, you want the wizard with the spellbook over there.

I don't hate wizards. I hate wizards getting stuff for free that other characters do not get. Letting him expand his arsenal for free is like heaping magic weapons and armor on a melee. If the wizard gets free stuff, then all the other classes should get free stuff. Otherwise, you just exacerbate the power levels that become a real problem at later levels.

==Aelryinth

[Blueluck]

I'm curious how this debate plays out in an actual game. The characters (players) get to distribute loot as they see fit, right? So individual character wealth isn't enforced by the GM.

If there are four players, and they find a suit of armor +3, two weapons +1, and a pile of scrolls worth 7k, don't the players just divide it up logically for best use, giving the fighter a weapon and the wizard the scrolls?

[leo1925]

Blueluck wrote:

I'm curious how this debate plays out in an actual game. The characters (players) get to distribute loot as they see fit, right? So individual character wealth isn't enforced by the GM.

If there are four players, and they find a suit of armor +3, two weapons +1, and a pile of scrolls worth 7k, don't the players just divide it up logically for best use, giving the fighter a weapon and the wizard the scrolls?

Depending on the scrolls (divine or arcane or bard spell etc.), and if there is someone else in the party who can use the scrolls but yes usally the wizard gets the scroll but in the next encounters the wizard and the fighter will take less loot than the other party members. At least that's how we do it in my group.

[lastblacknight]

Necro and Enchantment are my drops...

Diviner is quite useful - I like having my initiative increase at every level and being able to act in a surprise round.

[leo1925]

lastblacknight wrote:

Necro and Enchantment are my drops...

Diviner is quite useful - I like having my initiative increase at every level and being able to act in a surprise round.

Although you are right about the diviners ability but i will make a conjurer (teleportation subschool).

How do you feel about dumping evocation?

[lastblacknight]

leo1925 wrote:

How do you feel about dumping evocation?

Dumping evocation? Maybe? (double slot for magic missile? bit scary) Evocation has solid attacking spells. especially at first level. magic missile and burning hands. One is guaranteed hit and at higher levels gets rid of mirror images on enemy mages (helping fighters) and you can fire into combat without penalty. and for swarms you need burning hands or you need to run (unless oil/alchemists fire)

If you are going to summon lots of stuff be aware of the casting time required - 1 round. This means you are only moving 5ft taking concentration checks against interruptions.
You can take the feat Academe Graduate: which on a successful Fort Save brings that down to a Std action and there is a trait or two which stacks nicely.

I have copped some flack in game for spending the time to summon a creature instead of doing direct damage. It depends on your concept of your character direction. Although in a 3.5 game I won a mage duel using a dog to attack the enemy wizard directly (got around his shield spell and stuffed his casting :)

nb You creature gets to attack immediately, use its smite first off or have your thief/rogue readying an attack when it materialises and you will both get a +2 for flanking (if applicable).

On Choices;
look at the Level 1 abilities: Acid Dart vs Forewarned
The darts damage isn't brilliant and doesn't scale real well compared to being able to give someone a boost to attack, skill or save (and it scales nicely - meaning forewarned always useful.
Level 8 though is nice
Dimensional Steps rocks! vs Scrying Adept... no contest there really

Thankfully you don't lose access to a school it simply takes two slots..

Oh and when playing try and leave a spell slot empty, you can take ten minutes during the day (in-game) and choose a spell to suit the situation you find yourself in.

[leo1925]

How would either magic missile or burning hands get rid of an enemy wizard?
Acid dart is dropped for the teleportation's subschools sweet power.

[lastblacknight]

leo1925 wrote:

How would either magic missile or burning hands get rid of an enemy wizard?

Acid dart is dropped for the teleportation's subschools sweet power.

Teleportation is a cool power...

magic missile and burning hands aren't any bad or any worse against enemy wizards... they are useful spells though.

[King Modu]

You could try selecting an elemental school instead, and it is only opposed by its opposite element. I am actually going to be playing an Air school wizard soon. Opp element is Earth.

[leo1925]

Hedgebric wrote:

You could try selecting an elemental school instead, and it is only opposed by its opposite element. I am actually going to be playing an Air school wizard soon. Opp element is Earth.

I have read them and i can't say i was very interesting in any one of them. Anyway thank you for your suggestions but i won't be making a wizard anymore (the one who would be playing the fighter will be playing a summoner), i will play either a ranger or a paladin.

lastblacknight wrote:

leo1925 wrote:

How would either magic missile or burning hands get rid of an enemy wizard?

Acid dart is dropped for the teleportation's subschools sweet power.

Teleportation is a cool power...

magic missile and burning hands aren't any bad or any worse against enemy wizards... they are useful spells though.

I meant that burning hands and magic missile has no effect on another mage's mirror images.

[Lyrax]

Magic missile no longer hits mirror images (like it did in 2nd edition)... this makes mirror image more powerful.

It also makes magic missile slightly more powerful, because you can ready a magic missile for when an enemy casts. Even if they are protected by mirror image, you will hit them and provoke a concentration check.

[Purplefixer]

We need to correspond, Leo. Reagan just graduated from the Acadamae as well... heheheh.

Reagan Bellemonte is a prodigal Dhampyr Necromancer, already doing unique spell research, with Evocation, Abjuration, and Enchantment as his opposed schools (School Focus option from PHBII, not Pathfinder, but totally compatable) and an item-bond wand. I've gotten him all the way through the first two parts of Crimson Throne and have never bothered to wield a weapon or enchant the wand (Level 7!).

Acadamae graduate and Augment Summoning are brutally powerful together, and obliterate the need for spells like fireball by the time you can cast fireballs!

That being said:
Enchantment = Instant Win vs Non-Undead
Necromancy = Instant Win vs Undead
Illusion = Superior Control, esp. combined with conjuration!
Evocation = Pointless waste of spells on flashy bursts of elemental damage

You will face lots of both in Crimson Throne, and you aren't likely to be the kind of guy who plans to leave town much.

Also, ask your DM if you can use my Necro spells from the homebrew forum. We go to school together, after all. :D

Take your item bond, and then get the item-bond spontaneous conversion item from the APG! There's one for every spell school. I can't wait to enchant my bone flute/wand/dagger into a Necromancer's Athame...

[leo1925]

@Purplefixer
Me and my group decided to play kingmaker (and i play a switch hitter ranger) instead of curse of the crimson throne (we are now near the end of the second book), but yes it would have been cool, if we were playing CotCT to tell my DM to add your character as an NPC and you do the same with your DM.
Anyway about which item are you talking about? Can you give me a page number? (i haven't read all of the APG)

[Purplefixer]

The Necromancer's Athame is on page 308 in the APG.

Amulet of Magecraft - Universalist
Annihilation Spectacles - Transmutation

It's reasonable to assume there's an item for each of the nine schools that does likewise, but you'd have to arrange with your GM to make them.

Lock-Rings of Illusion?
Conjurer's Hat?
Diviner's Mirror?
Abjurer's Cord?
Orb of the Angry Evoker?
Garland of Versatile Enchantment?