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Well word from WOTC is the didgital versions of there magazines Dragon and Dungeon that you get with your DDi subscription are no longer being compliled every month to make a magazine. You just get the articles as they come out I think. The magazines are pretty much no longer being made. WOTC killed them both off same month.
Curious as to how people at Paizo feel about WOTC killing something that they help make great. :( Sad day.
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I'm still not happy that they yanked them from the stores in the first place. I enjoyed being able to go and get my gaming magazine. But I try to look at it that because they did that, Paizo started the Pathfinder line, and probably wouldn't have had they not yanked the D&D mag license. I refused to subscribe to the online stuff, so while it doesn't surprise me that they're stopping the compilation, I'm not that upset over it since I never used anything from their 4e mags anyway. I run 4e once a month, I just don't use D&D Mag stuff.
Their removal and alteration was based off a faulty premise, so I'm not surprised to see them fail. A shame, but ultimately an inevitability, as far as I'm concerned.
Savage Tide got me buying the magazines every month, and then I had to go back and get all of Age of Worms, plus any awesome adventures that people were talking about that I didn't have (Maure Castle, Mud God's Tomb, etc).
I never spent a penny on the eMags that followed. Pathfinder replaced my Dungeons and Dragons purchases, and Kobold Quarterly replaced my Dungeon and Dragon purchases.
Having bought Dragon on and off from the early 80's..it hurt like hell when they closed up shop as a mag. I had no use for the online version...it still is a major bummer to hear its dead though.
It was a shame and reminded of the type of business decisions that marked the beginning of the end for TSR.
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Their content was weak virtually from the beginning and it got weaker as time went on. i was a DDi subscriber for about 18 months yet rarely used any material from the mags becasue it disliked it so much. I was pleased to cancel my sub about 2 months before the true poo hit the spiraling blades. I am a much happier gamer after leaving Hasbro/WotC/DnD and coming fulltime to Paizo/Pathfinder.
I don't even count that as Dragon or Dungeon; it doesn't even register a blip on my fun ko meter.
Dungeon and Dragon magazine died years ago for me. I am still very sad about the loss.
I wish Paizo would do similar magazines for Pathfinder, but I know that is not going to happen either.
Fortunately all is not lost for me, I have found an Old School Renn. magazine that at least fills the void a little bit.
Yeah, last time I talked about my thoughts on WoTC decisions I think I was pretty close to getting banned from the Paizo boards...So just pretend I said something incredibly offensive and vulgar...and then multiply it by Gilbert Godfrey...
As far as I count, they died when they stopped printing them. This news does not shock me and is not unexpected.
I quite like the online format, I don't really see the animosity. They're adventures just aren't in the same league as paizo's but that's quite literally true - they aren't aiming for the same thing. FWIW, not much has actually changed - they put out a new article every day and you can still access them all - there's just no compilation of 'what we did last month' but since it went online, not many were using that feature anyhow.
Their removal and alteration was based off a faulty premise, so I'm not surprised to see them fail.
Exactly what premise was that? I'm curious to hear what it is.
DogBone
As far as I count, they died when they stopped printing them. This news does not shock me and is not unexpected.+1
Doesn't affect me in the slightest.
+1 for me, too.
When reading the thread title, I wondered - did some folks still not get the message?
I´m not that surprised as well, but neither does it bother me, as I have no use for 4e anyway. It is sad to see two magazine titles, both of them being important to D&D since they were first published, die such an ignoble death, however.
Stefan
I quite like the online format, I don't really see the animosity. They're adventures just aren't in the same league as paizo's but that's quite literally true - they aren't aiming for the same thing. FWIW, not much has actually changed - they put out a new article every day and you can still access them all - there's just no compilation of 'what we did last month' but since it went online, not many were using that feature anyhow.
I think a lot of the animosity is due to the removal of the print form of the magazines.
I love PDFs, and I buy a lot of them, but they're an ancillary product. I will always take the print form over the PDF.
I suspect that I'm not in the minority, and that the majority significantly dwarfs said minority.
If I recall correctly, the print magazines were also wildly popular, and I seem to remember Paizo stated that they were profiting from both mags (and if you're familiar with magazines, this is a pretty fantastic accomplishment - most are considered an advertising write-off, and aren't profitable).
Currently, the magazines produce content for a system that I don't play, but assuming the magazines were producing 3.5/PFRPG content (which I do play), I woulnd't be "subscribing" to electronic versions of them. If they were print, you can be sure I'd have both of them on subscription, or at least picking them up from my F-not-so-LGS monthly/bimonthly/whenever.
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I wish Paizo would do similar magazines for Pathfinder, but I know that is not going to happen either.
Well between the magazines Wayfinder and Kobold Quarterly plus I'm sure others we've actually got quality magazines that do cover the Pathfinder RPG. I think Wayfinder carries on the spirit of Dragon the most out of everything.
Curious as to how people at Paizo feel about WOTC killing something that they help make great. :( Sad day.
The owners of Paizo have made one thing very clear in the past: they're happy to be out of the magazine business.
So, they finally killed the necromancy that was keeping them in Zombieland, no surprise there.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*shrug* They went from the Dead tree format to the digital one, and then it died. It happens.
As to DTF vs PDF, I buy my Battletech books in PDF now, since my c-bills are tight, but I agree with what others say. I prefer my dead tree kobolds on hand, even if I do read the PDFs between calls.
R.I.P. old friends. :(
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The whole thing makes me a little sad ...
Honestly though, I see the last issue of Dragon and Dungeon as the final print issues Paizo put out. Anything after that is something else, but they were not Dragon or Dungeon, no matter what logo got slapped on the thing.
Just my opinion.
And, the death of those beloved magazines did lead to some pretty AWESOME stuff (Pathfinder anyone?)
And ... we have Kobold Quarterly to fill in the big shoes left by the magazines. So, in an odd way, we should say thanks to Hasbro, I guess!
how hard is it to put the contents of each months articles in a PDF? I assume there is some time to it for the announcement to be made. I had a subscription from issue 100 to sometimes in 3rd edition but sadly never experienced the magazine whenpaizo did it.
Creative Director
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Curious as to how people at Paizo feel about WOTC killing something that they help make great. :( Sad day.The owners of Paizo have made one thing very clear in the past: they're happy to be out of the magazine business.
True... but not necessarily happy to no longer be doing Dragon or Dungeon.
I quite like the online format, I don't really see the animosity. They're adventures just aren't in the same league as paizo's but that's quite literally true - they aren't aiming for the same thing. FWIW, not much has actually changed - they put out a new article every day and you can still access them all - there's just no compilation of 'what we did last month' but since it went online, not many were using that feature anyhow.I think a lot of the animosity is due to the removal of the print form of the magazines.
I love PDFs, and I buy a lot of them, but they're an ancillary product. I will always take the print form over the PDF.
I suspect that I'm not in the minority, and that the majority significantly dwarfs said minority.
If I recall correctly, the print magazines were also wildly popular, and I seem to remember Paizo stated that they were profiting from both mags (and if you're familiar with magazines, this is a pretty fantastic accomplishment - most are considered an advertising write-off, and aren't profitable).
Currently, the magazines produce content for a system that I don't play, but assuming the magazines were producing 3.5/PFRPG content (which I do play), I woulnd't be "subscribing" to electronic versions of them. If they were print, you can be sure I'd have both of them on subscription, or at least picking them up from my F-not-so-LGS monthly/bimonthly/whenever.
I prefer print versions too - that changed a few years ago though and I didn't quite see why this recent change would really register.
I guess it's just people missing what they used to get - paper dragon/dungeon magazines never did it for me so I find the current setup perfect (paizo churning out an in depth world full of interesting stories, wotc churning out more lightweight articles I can skim read at work, printing out the odd thing here or there if something is particularly relevant.
Meh.
I don't know about y'all but when Dragon and Dungeon stopped being printed I took that same amount of monthly budget it and transferred it to Pathfinder materials. As far as I am concerned the APs are my Dungeon and Dragon magazines.
Also, I sincerely hope Hasbro finally just gives up on DnD and Paizo can get some IP fire-sale.
Also, I sincerely hope Hasbro finally just gives up on DnD and Paizo can get some IP fire-sale.
Don´t hold your breath on it...
Don´t hold your breath on it...
Also, I sincerely hope Hasbro finally just gives up on DnD and Paizo can get some IP fire-sale.
Oh trust me, I don't; but one can hope.
Their removal and alteration was based off a faulty premise, so I'm not surprised to see them fail.Exactly what premise was that? I'm curious to hear what it is.
DogBone
That people go online to get the information contained in them, and thus online was where they should be.
I hate to say it but Hasbro should have just abandoned Dragon/Dungeon wholesale from day 1 and went with the more web traditional ad-hoc electronic article scheme they are embracing now.... With 4E, since it is a clean break from the past and has a very DM friendly encounter building system, you don't really have these things so maybe you don't have a need for a monthly magazine.
I completely disagree. Kobold Quarterly articles on 4e are well done enough to the point where if anyone else in my area wanted to even touch 4e, I would definitely have fun incorporating them into the mix. But ultimately, 4e has been a less fun experience for me and I'm not surprised that it fails to push a magazine or any other initiatives forward.
I started buying Dragon since about issue 73 and Dungeon from issue 1, and I can tell you that the quality varied a lot over the print runs (Dragon had a lot of very bland and bad offerings between issue 100 and 250 or so). I will say this though, when Paizo took over the magazines I saw a lot of changes , a lot more energy, better artwork, better adventures.
So when WOTC killed off the print versions 5 years ago, I had no doubt whatsoever I would stick with Paizo, and my loyalty has been rewarded with some amazing adventure ideas and stories, and I am thrilled that they keep putting the good stuff out there.
In a sense, I have no ill will towards WOTC at all as the were the Catalysts for Paizo to challenge itself and grow. And yeah, WOTC decision to kill the online mags is entirely predictable. To have been a success, they would have to have the same amount of energy, talent and creativity that Paizo had when they were doing Dragon/Dungeon, and sadly, while WOTC has/had some great talent , I don't think the online mags ever got the creative team/resource backing they needed to compete.
I started buying Dragon since about issue 73 and Dungeon from issue 1, and I can tell you that the quality varied a lot over the print runs (Dragon had a lot of very bland and bad offerings between issue 100 and 250 or so). I will say this though, when Paizo took over the magazines I saw a lot of changes , a lot more energy, better artwork, better adventures.
So when WOTC killed off the print versions 5 years ago, I had no doubt whatsoever I would stick with Paizo, and my loyalty has been rewarded with some amazing adventure ideas and stories, and I am thrilled that they keep putting the good stuff out there.
In a sense, I have no ill will towards WOTC at all as the were the Catalysts for Paizo to challenge itself and grow. And yeah, WOTC decision to kill the online mags is entirely predictable. To have been a success, they would have to have the same amount of energy, talent and creativity that Paizo had when they were doing Dragon/Dungeon, and sadly, while WOTC has/had some great talent , I don't think the online mags ever got the creative team/resource backing they needed to compete.
Having started buying Dragon around the same time I have to agree with almost everything you've said.
My only disagreement is that I do have considerable ill will towards WotC for...well, pretty much every decision they've made over the last few years. :(