I removed some posts in the interest of keeping this thread on an even keel.
I removed some posts in the interest of keeping this thread on an even keel.
Thanks, Ross.
Nah, that would require him to be politically correct. I know you're a fan of not being restricted to PC guidelines. So, why should he?
;-)
I actually posted on her account. It isn't a steamer, but it is a little Cleveland.
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The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
Err. No.
A feminist is someone who is active in the feminist movement, working towards equal rights, opportunities etc.
Another hint: women and men will never be completely equal, even when they have equal rights and opportunities. You can't fight biology.
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If you're nitpicking about the definition of 'advocate' then it's a pretty flimsy excuse to not support "equal rights, opportunities, etc" for 50 per cent of the population. Which is what people are supporting when they quickly state that 'they're not a feminist!' as if it's a disease or something.
But I can see your argument about biology. I've never seen a man take a pinch of genetic material up inside them, then use it to create a new human being within a cavity amidst their vital organs, then go through the agony of pushing that new human out of a organ that has to stretch many times it's original diameter. Women are clearly biologically superior ;)
If you're nitpicking about the definition of 'advocate' then it's a pretty flimsy excuse to not support "equal rights, opportunities, etc" for 50 per cent of the population. Which is what people are supporting when they quickly state that 'they're not a feminist!' as if it's a disease or something.
But I can see your argument about biology. I've never seen a man take a pinch of genetic material up inside them, then use it to create a new human being within a cavity amidst their vital organs, then go through the agony of pushing that new human out of a organ that has to stretch many times it's original diameter. Women are clearly biologically superior ;)
You are still wrong. Believing that women and men should have the same rights and opportunities does not make one a feminist. "Advocate" here is a crucial word, it is not nitpicking to point that out.
If you assumed that I think women are "biologically inferior" (to use your style of expression) and wanted to somehow correct or ridicule this with your little excurse about pregnancy and birth - rest assured I do not think any of the sexes inferior or superior, just different.
On more levels than many feminists realize - which in my opinion has lead to the fact that their efforts in *some* cases actually worsened the situation of women in todays society, but here is not really the place to discuss this.
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I thought we had killed this thread yesterday?!?
I'd like more cheesecake, Paizo. And some cookies, as well. Cherry cheesecake is my favorite, but lemon is also very tasty.
Pass me some too, squidface! (Although I like worshipping Almighty Asmodeus and dancing nekkid even more than cheesecake!)
Yeah, I actually assassinated this thread some time ago and stole all its stuff, but it seems to have been resurrected...
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The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
That is what the word means technically but in actual usage it has almost become a dirty word due to the actions of the more extreme members of the feminist movement (i.e. the ones who seem less interested in equality and more interested in revenge or complaining because a guy held a door open for them). I know I've worked with a lot of women in my life (programmers and ex-military) many of them very strong willed but have never known one to refer to herself as a feminist. They want to be treated equally work wise but have no issue as being treated as a lady also.
I thought we had killed this thread yesterday?!?
I'd like more cheesecake, Paizo. And some cookies, as well. Cherry cheesecake is my favorite, but lemon is also very tasty.
Pass me some too, squidface! (Although I like worshipping Almighty Asmodeus and dancing nekkid even more than cheesecake!)
Yeah, I actually assassinated this thread some time ago and stole all its stuff, but it seems to have been resurrected...
I'm guessing it's because that other thread got locked down. But there's always those folks who search for specific words and then comment on them.
I'm guilty of that myself sometimes, but in my case it's more likely to be "epic" than something incongruous like "feminism".
And (sort of) on topic ... as I've been trying to impress on my teenage son, connotation and denotation are both crucially important. What the dictionary says a word means and what huge portions of the popualation will think you mean are often not quite the same thing, and that is an important thing to be aware of, especially online where tone and facial expression are not available.
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That is what the word means technically but in actual usage it has almost become a dirty word due to the actions of the more extreme members of the feminist movement (i.e. the ones who seem less interested in equality and more interested in revenge or complaining because a guy held a door open for them).
The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
No, it has become a dirty word for the same reason "liberal" is a dirty word - political and media muckraking.
Bulletproof Nudity
PCs with Attractive or better
appearance can get a bonus to active
defenses simply by undressing! Any
outfit that bares legs, chest, or midriff
is +1. Just a loincloth or skimpy
swimwear is +2. Topless females get
an extra +1. Total nudity gives no further
bonus to defense, but adds +1 to
Move and +2 water Move.
Sounds like my sort of game!
Jokes aside though, one of the things that drew me to Pathfinder, and away from other games which had captured my attention, was the artwork. Sexy ladies included. Then again I'm no stickler about my Fantasy art being in anyway accurate to real life. I think over the top massive suits of plate armor can look good despite how ridiculous they would be to actually wear. On the same token a sexy sorceress dressed in skimpy robes doesn't rub me the wrong way at all, despite the fact that they are grossly impractical. YMMV, but my Fantasy is extraordinary, not gritty and real.
Actually my biggest pet peeve with the art was the Barbarian class picture. It wasn't that the Barbarian's armor was revealing and didn't cover her core, it was that sword! The thing was as big as a tree.
Edit: Also our group had a good laugh about the picture on page 253. It depicts the sorceress casting what I assume to be chain lightning. The funny part is she has one heck of a wedgie!
Regarding Amiri's sword, it's meant to be huge because it was the weapon (bastard sword?) of a Frost Giant that she took from it's body, and she's strong enough to use it, particularly while enraged. It's not supposed to be proportional for a regular person.
I thought this was about going to the Cheesecake Factory and eating too much. Rats.
Regarding Amiri's sword, it's meant to be huge because it was the weapon (bastard sword?) of a Frost Giant that she took from it's body, and she's strong enough to use it, particularly while enraged. It's not supposed to be proportional for a regular person.
I never said it wasn't meant to be huge, or proportional to a normal person, just that I thought it looked like a Buster Sword from Final Fantasy. And of course anyone actually strong enough to use that, male or female, would be massive. She isn't but once again that isn't a problem I have. I just thought the sword looked a bit goofy, personal taste I suppose.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I thought we had killed this thread yesterday?!?
I'd like more cheesecake, Paizo. And some cookies, as well. Cherry cheesecake is my favorite, but lemon is also very tasty.
I thought someone had revived it in response to the Starfire talk down in the comics section, to be honest.
Dunno why it's back but I will take this opportunity to again declar my love for cheesecake.
There is a fine line between feminism and misandry and as a male I'm offened when any male is called a misogynist because he finds females attractive. Their are women all around the world with real issues. In saudi arabia they can't even drive! I believe our mothers and grandmothers the real feminists would saddened to see what their effort has devolved into. A pointless gender war on daytime tv where mothers teach their daughters to hate their brothers. Real empowered women are too busy at being successful. Ask our secretary of state if she would be where she is today if she was on rpg forum complaining about this dumb crap.
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Paizo, remove the Monk's naked perfect muscled oiled chest, it's sexist and makes me feel fat. And ugly.
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There is a fine line between feminism and misandry and as a male I'm offened when any male is called a misogynist because he finds females attractive. Their are women all around the world with real issues. In saudi arabia they can't even drive! I believe our mothers and grandmothers the real feminists would saddened to see what their effort has devolved into. A pointless gender war on daytime tv where mothers teach their daughters to hate their brothers. Real empowered women are too busy at being successful. Ask our secretary of state if she would be where she is today if she was on rpg forum complaining about this dumb crap.
Let me unpick this.
Because
A: Women in other countries have it worse
and
B: Women in your country in the past had it worse
Women should no longer express any concern about remaining gender discrimination and/or inequality.
Is that what you're saying?
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That is what the word means technically but in actual usage it has almost become a dirty word due to the actions of the more extreme members of the feminist movement (i.e. the ones who seem less interested in equality and more interested in revenge or complaining because a guy held a door open for them). I know I've worked with a lot of women in my life (programmers and ex-military) many of them very strong willed but have never known one to refer to herself as a feminist. They want to be treated equally work wise but have no issue as being treated as a lady also.
The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
Some hateful people have tried to make feminist a dirty word. They have twisted its meaning in an attempt to dehumanize the people who struggle for women's equal rights. That doesn't mean we should stop using the word with the intent of its true meaning.
I am a feminist, proudly so. I dare to believe women are also people.
Most people who use feminist as a "dirty word" do not share my beliefs. I am not going to let them "win" by allowing them to keep it as a "dirty word."
Also: the reason why this came back was a thread in "Paizo Products" that got started a couple days ago and swiftly locked. You should still be able to find it if you want to see what it was all about.
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There is a fine line between feminism and misandry and as a male I'm offened when any male is called a misogynist because he finds females attractive. Their are women all around the world with real issues. In saudi arabia they can't even drive! I believe our mothers and grandmothers the real feminists would saddened to see what their effort has devolved into. A pointless gender war on daytime tv where mothers teach their daughters to hate their brothers. Real empowered women are too busy at being successful. Ask our secretary of state if she would be where she is today if she was on rpg forum complaining about this dumb crap.Let me unpick this.
Because
A: Women in other countries have it worse
and
B: Women in your country in the past had it worse
Women should no longer express any concern about remaining gender discrimination and/or inequality.Is that what you're saying?
What I mean is playing the victim is NEVER EVER empowering. If a fictional idealized character makes you feel insecure then you need to look within for the souce of your troubles. Its just plain misandry to blame men for liking the female form. And for the record I don't see PETA on here complaining about the fictional enslavement of familiars. Maybe because they have REAL animals being abused? That and people would think they were mental...
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All the Pics he posted
Thank you for those links you saved me alot of time. I remember when 4e came out and I was defending the art of the books against people that thought the girl on the cover of the PHB was far too skimpy.
There are big deals in this world. Like how about we go after the way women are portrayed in FEMALE fashion magazines and the image that sends to young girls and society at large.
Paizo has a great record with their art. I like to point the very beautiful SEELAH as an example of tasteful art, and honestly Seoni is not dressed impractically.
The only time cheesecake bothers me is when it is a blatant move to sell a product. For example, I think it was Fast Forward that released a Norse supplement. The Cover was a Blond girl, in Bondage leather, wielding two Katana's in a rather sexy pose. I think the picture was GREAT. BUT it annoyed me it was on that supplement. Other than being Blond, there was nothing there to relate her to vikings. Katanas? Black Leather Armor leaving navel exposed? The product might have been great, and normally I would have bought it, but the out of place cover ticked me off.
Paizo and Wizards of the Coast on the other hand I think do a very good job of placing Cheesecake pictures in the right place.
I just wish PAIZO did MORE of it not LESS :)
And for the record I don't see PETA on here complaining about the fictional enslavement of familiars. Maybe because they have REAL animals being abused? That and people would think they were mental...
There are no words for how awesome your post is.
But you know PETA is great. Like Kae Yoss said in another thread, as more people wear fur, PETA protests by putting scantily clad women in cages. So men where more fur.
With that said organizations like PETA make people hostile to animal rights because they ARE mental. I have done alot of work with DEFNEDERS OF WILDLIFE, and it is often hard for organizations like that to be taken seriously because of PETA antics, like suing baseball players for hitting a bird with a ball during a game, or President Obama killing a fly.
That is what the word means technically but in actual usage it has almost become a dirty word due to the actions of the more extreme members of the feminist movement (i.e. the ones who seem less interested in equality and more interested in revenge or complaining because a guy held a door open for them). I know I've worked with a lot of women in my life (programmers and ex-military) many of them very strong willed but have never known one to refer to herself as a feminist. They want to be treated equally work wise but have no issue as being treated as a lady also.
The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
Some hateful people have tried to make feminist a dirty word. They have twisted its meaning in an attempt to dehumanize the people who struggle for women's equal rights. That doesn't mean we should stop using the word with the intent of its true meaning.
I am a feminist, proudly so. I dare to believe women are also people.
Most people who use feminist as a "dirty word" do not share my beliefs. I am not going to let them "win" by allowing them to keep it as a "dirty word."
Also: the reason why this came back was a thread in "Paizo Products" that got started a couple days ago and swiftly locked. You should still be able to find it if you want to see what it was all about.
If I may ask, what do you think of people that uses words like feminism/sexism in order to back arguments that are not really related to feminism/sexism/etc.. but to their own personal/religious/political/whatever agenda? (not saying this thread is the case, neither it isn't)
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What I mean is playing the victim is NEVER EVER empowering. If a fictional idealized character makes you feel insecure then you need to look within for the souce of your troubles. Its just plain misandry to blame men for liking the female form. And for the record I don't see PETA on here complaining about the fictional enslavement of familiars. Maybe because they have REAL animals being abused? That and people would think they were mental...
Society should really stop making women into victims, then.
Nobody here is harping that women can be hot. I'm a straight dude. I'm all for hot women.
The problem is when it becomes exploitative. Cheesecake is often exploitative.
See here's the thing - how women are presented in media is absolutely important. Absolutely important. As a dude, I'm not surrounded by pictures of other men who are stunningly attractive. I've never felt like I had to match Brad Pitt. And what's more, the images of other people "similar" to me are all very powerful ones. I mean, I'm a white male. Do you have any idea how many role models I have access to? I don't, because I stopped counting! If I want images of sexy dudes, done. Easy. No problem. If I want images of rugged dudes, done. Ugly dudes. Men in armor. Men without armor. Ugly or sexy guys in or without armor. Any of the above carrying any sort of weapon that could ever be used, I have that.
If I was an asian woman making a character modeled after myself and wanted to be wearing heavy armor and wielding a two handed sword? I'm pretty much SOL. Maybe one or two pictures from L5R. There's the one picture where this badass warrior woman is covered in blood and holding an axe, that's pretty awesome. I need to really, really like that picture though, because that's about all there is.
But I can be a sexy sorceress. Or a sexy cleric. There's a few different types of sexy warrior, most of them not really wearing armor. White Male Cirno can be a battle scarred and brooding barbarian, White Female Cirno can be a topless thin barbarian girl who barely holds her sword.
And god help me if I'm Native American. I better like racial stereotypes a whole lot.
So yeah, images matter. A lot. I haven't even touched on the differences in growing up surrounded by different images and I've hopefully already pushed that images matter a whole lot.
Behold! The Unthread!
The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
The problem is that this is only one definition of feminist. Another is "Is active in the feminism movement". And, apparently, another is "b+#*+@~ insane woman with an irrational hatred of men and ridiculous ideas and demands, hurting the equal rights movement more with her hostile manner than anything".
The last one is usually overly sensitive to anything that she believes is degrading to women, even when it's totally not.
So when someone declares he (or she) is not a feminist, don't assume they think women should be an underclass or something. I'm sure you know that asinine saying about assuming! ;-)
Another hint: women and men will never be completely equal, even when they have equal rights and opportunities. You can't fight biology.
Equal isn't quite the same as identical.
And you claim that we can't fight biology? The hell we can't! It's one of the defining features of mankind: Fighting biology on all fronts! And I'm not just talking about gender change operations. I'm talking about everything: Said gender change operations, all kinds of surgery in general (organ transplants, plastic surgery, implanting pace-makers or artificial hips, everything), genetic engineering, pharmacy and often chemistry in general.
Just as an aside.
Equal isn't quite the same as identical.
Sorry, you are right of course. Sometimes there are subtle meanings to words which are easily lost in translation.
Their are women all around the world with real issues. In saudi arabia they can't even drive!
At first, I wanted to point out that in Saudi Arabia, they *may* not drive, as in, aren't allowed to. They *can't* drive all over the world, but I decided against it because, while it is in good fun, some of the ladies here would probably be less than amused.
So I didn't mention it.
Wait, I just did.
All in good fun, I swear ;-P.
What I really want to talk about is this: While it is true that some of those "feminists" are really just misandrists and are having ridiculous arguments that hurt their cause more than it helps, the old "don't complain, others have it worse" thing is so ludicrous there should be a low making it punishable by death.
Just because someone else has it worse doesn't mean you automatically have it good. Just because someone else's problems are more dire doesn't mean that one's own problems don't exist or are trivial. It's not a competition, it's not a comparison.
Behold! The Unthread!
The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
The problem is that this is only one definition of feminist. Another is "Is active in the feminism movement". And, apparently, another is "b+!$#%# insane woman with an irrational hatred of men and ridiculous ideas and demands, hurting the equal rights movement more with her hostile manner than anything".
The last one is usually overly sensitive to anything that she believes is degrading to women, even when it's totally not.
So when someone declares he (or she) is not a feminist, don't assume they think women should be an underclass or something. I'm sure you know that asinine saying about assuming! ;-)
Another hint: women and men will never be completely equal, even when they have equal rights and opportunities. You can't fight biology.Equal isn't quite the same as identical.
And you claim that we can't fight biology? The hell we can't! It's one of the defining features of mankind: Fighting biology on all fronts! And I'm not just talking about gender change operations. I'm talking about everything: Said gender change operations, all kinds of surgery in general (organ transplants, plastic surgery, implanting pace-makers or artificial hips, everything), genetic engineering, pharmacy and often chemistry in general.
Just as an aside.
Good point, but on the point of feminism gone overboard there is a term for it. Taking pride in being female is feminism but doing so to the detriment of men is "misandry". The opposite of misogyny...
Hmm.
Regarding equating feminism with misandry: Most of the time, that seems to fall into one of three categories: anecdotes, deliberate strawmen, or second-and-third-hand accounts of one or the other.
Yes, there are biological differences. Until we have an entirely bias-free culture to examine, we will most likely never know exactly how deeply they run.
And I'd say that it's one thing for female characters to be attractive—or even attractive and scantily clad—and quite another for them to appear far more vulnerable than they properly should. (Amiri is a rather emphatic example of Doing It Right. Pretty lady in a rawhide halter top? Yes. Helpless? Most emphatically not.)
For the record I never implied that women shouldn't complain if they get a raw deal because others have it worse. What I am saying is if I was a woman in the middle east and I could be stoned to death for taking off my head scarf and I saw waht others are so mad about I would be wondering "hey are you done I could use some help over here". If people are so set on a gender war then people that just blog about it are kinda like draft dodgers.
For the record I never implied that women shouldn't complain if they get a raw deal because others have it worse. What I am saying is if I was a woman in the middle east and I could be stoned to death for taking off my head scarf and I saw waht others are so mad about I would be wondering "hey are you done I could use some help over here".
Sorry, but this is six of one and a half dozen of the other. What makes you to believe that the bloggers aren't doing anything to help? Blogging doesn't actually preclude one from taking action, y'know.
If people are so set on a gender war then people that just blog about it are kinda like draft dodgers.
I somehow doubt that anyone is interested in a "gender war." (No one who doesn't have some serious issues, at any rate.)
The only reason I look at feminism askance is because I have found in practice(not theory) that, due to human failings, some people always end up being more equal than others.
For the record I never implied that women shouldn't complain if they get a raw deal because others have it worse. What I am saying is if I was a woman in the middle east and I could be stoned to death for taking off my head scarf and I saw waht others are so mad about I would be wondering "hey are you done I could use some help over here".Sorry, but this is six of one and a half dozen of the other. What makes you to believe that the bloggers aren't doing anything to help? Blogging doesn't actually preclude one from taking action, y'know.
If people are so set on a gender war then people that just blog about it are kinda like draft dodgers.I somehow doubt that anyone is interested in a "gender war." (No one who doesn't have some serious issues, at any rate.)
I never said bloggers "couldn't " actually "do" something. Merely that just writing a blog in an of itself never did anything productive. Every cause worth fighting for in history had heroes that took risks and paid high prices. Nobody will ever follow some schmoe from the net using a screen name.
The only reason I look at feminism askance is because I have found in practice(not theory) that, due to human failings, some people always end up being more equal than others.
Note that I mean this in the classic big brother/1984 sense, not that I believe that people should be treated differently due to the fact that they differ from one another.
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The only reason I look at feminism askance is because I have found in practice(not theory) that, due to human failings, some people always end up being more equal than others.And that few feminists care about equality for both genders not just more for theirs at any cost....
Yes, poor men. We are so abused and oopressed. Why, maybe in our lifetime, there will be a male President. Or 43 of them. One after the other.
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If I may ask, what do you think of people that uses words like feminism/sexism in order to back arguments that are not really related to feminism/sexism/etc.. but to their own personal/religious/political/whatever agenda? (not saying this thread is the case, neither it isn't)That is what the word means technically but in actual usage it has almost become a dirty word due to the actions of the more extreme members of the feminist movement (i.e. the ones who seem less interested in equality and more interested in revenge or complaining because a guy held a door open for them). I know I've worked with a lot of women in my life (programmers and ex-military) many of them very strong willed but have never known one to refer to herself as a feminist. They want to be treated equally work wise but have no issue as being treated as a lady also.
The blogger is a feminist. I'm most assuredly not a feminist.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word feminist. I hope so, at least.
A feminist is someone who believes women are equal to men. When someone states that they are not a feminist what they are actually saying is that they do not feel women are equal to men.
Some hateful people have tried to make feminist a dirty word. They have twisted its meaning in an attempt to dehumanize the people who struggle for women's equal rights. That doesn't mean we should stop using the word with the intent of its true meaning.
I am a feminist, proudly so. I dare to believe women are also people.
Most people who use feminist as a "dirty word" do not share my beliefs. I am not going to let them "win" by allowing them to keep it as a "dirty word."
Also: the reason why this came back was a thread in "Paizo Products" that got started a couple days ago and swiftly locked. You should still be able to find it if you want to see what it was all about.
There are people who use all forms of -isms as a scapegoat for why they don't get something they want, when in reality, it's because it's something else. For example, I had a co-worker at an Interfaith organization who once insisted he was laid off because he was Catholic, when the reality he did not do his job well, and there was ample evidence of that (and other employees there were Catholic and had no problems). The reality was he could not acknowledge his own poor behavior, and scapegoated discrimination instead.
That kind of behavior is dangerous, because it belittles and draws attention away from genuine acts of discrimination. So yes, if there is a woman who is clearly incompetent and she gets fired and says it's because of gender discrimination, her argument may undermine another woman who is very good at her job but IS getting fired because, say, she refuses to sleep with her boss, and her boss gets other people to believe she's playing the "feminism card"--because of people like woman#1--to delegitimize her case. (And believe me, that does happen.)
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, and will place the blame on all manner of things, from other people to ideologies, and others are left to suffer for it.
But that's all the more reason why we must push for responsible use of the word "feminism"--and other discussions of civil rights efforts, civil treatment (such as how we depict people of different demographic groups in the media) and discriminatory issues. We can't allow the irresponsible to make it easy to discount legitimate discussions of these concerns.
Now, this is getting a little off topic. If you want to discuss it further, should we take it to email/another thread?
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The only reason I look at feminism askance is because I have found in practice(not theory) that, due to human failings, some people always end up being more equal than others.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to push for more, real equal treatment for all people. (Obviously people can't be "more equal" but some are treated better or worse, which I assume is what you meant.)
If I see a white police officer beating a black man in the street, should I shrug it off because racism will always exist? No. If I see a woman being kicked to the ground by a group of men who tell her to stay in the kitchen, should I just walk on by, because society just says some people are better than others? Absolutely not.
Absolutely there is a function of society that tends to separate people into castes. It doesn't mean it's always right, or that people use the best methods for discerning the contributions a person can make to society.
The only reason I look at feminism askance is because I have found in practice(not theory) that, due to human failings, some people always end up being more equal than others.That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to push for more, real equal treatment for all people. (Obviously people can't be "more equal" but some are treated better or worse, which I assume is what you meant.)
If I see a white police officer beating a black man in the street, should I shrug it off because racism will always exist? No. If I see a woman being kicked to the ground by a group of men who tell her to stay in the kitchen, should I just walk on by, because society just says some people are better than others? Absolutely not.
Absolutely there is a function of society that tends to separate people into castes. It doesn't mean it's always right, or that people use the best methods for discerning the contributions a person can make to society.
unfortunately,, this isn't what I meant by my earlier quote- I tried to change it, but it wouldn't let me edit, so I added an addendum that possibly made it sound more confusing. I was going in a more "equality often means different things to different people" direction.
Could this thread have or not have something to do with a thread that may or may not have offended certain parties to an extant that to think about this more could MAKE YOUR HEAD EXPLODE?
Yes, poor men. We are so abused and oopressed. Why, maybe in our lifetime, there will be a male President. Or 43 of them. One after the other.The only reason I look at feminism askance is because I have found in practice(not theory) that, due to human failings, some people always end up being more equal than others.And that few feminists care about equality for both genders not just more for theirs at any cost....
Nobody said men were oppressed but we have been getting brow beaten for the simple act of finding females attractive. Oddly enough for enjoying the feminine form we get labeled misogynists and get the "to catch a predator " treatment. Lastly have you ever seen how we are portrayed in media geared towards women? Where are all the strong male role models on the limetime network? Men are either cast as the stalking psycho or the incompetent husband that can't understand house work. That said I'm done with this thread. I think I'll find one about "gaming".