Dresden files

[Ivan Rûski]

I by no means meant Changes was bad...in fact I think it's the best in the series so far. There's just a LOT of WTF moments.

[Ivan Rûski]

Just in case y'all didn't know, the first two chapters of Ghost Story have been posted. Chapter 1 is here, and chapter 2 is here.
Chapter 3 will be posted tomorrow, chapter 4 on July 5th along with audio of Jim reading an older version of the 1st 2 chapters, and on July 12th chapter 5 and audio of the 3rd and 4th chapters of the older draft will be posted.

Edit: fixed link, and added more info.

[Ivan Rûski]

Chapter 3 is up.

[VM mercenario]

Thank you.

[Madclaw]

The end of July can't come fast enough. BTW, someone should really run a Dresden PBP on the boards.

[Matthew Morris]

Madclaw wrote:

The end of July can't come fast enough. BTW, someone should really run a Dresden PBP on the boards.

I feel your pain. I don't know if I want to read those chapters and lament more, or just suffer through.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Madclaw wrote:

The end of July can't come fast enough. BTW, someone should really run a Dresden PBP on the boards.

There were 3-4 that started here, at least one of them was playing over facebook though...

[Valegrim]

ok; like 3 more day; whew; how many of you have preordered? New book comes out the 23rd right?

[drayen]

Valegrim wrote:

ok; like 3 more day; whew; how many of you have preordered? New book comes out the 23rd right?

Tuesday, July 26th, is the street date. Books generally come out on Tuesdays.

[Whited Sepulcher]

Just read Changes, really enjoyed it. Can't wait to start on the new one when it comes out on paperback.

Oh, just recently read up on wiki that apparently James Marsters(?) is not going to do the audio book for this new release, darn. I was hoping it'd be the same narrator for the entire series.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Valegrim wrote:

ok; like 3 more day; whew; how many of you have preordered? New book comes out the 23rd right?

I preordered through amazon, using a link from pathfinderwiki to get to amazon, to pay for web hosting costs.. Does anyone know if the audiobook comes out the 26th too?

[Valegrim]

Tuesday! ARgh!

[Valegrim]

I know; its painful;; was playing in a game here run by Smerg; but he didnt put much time into it and game was always stalled ; he finally dropped it; need another.

[DSXMachina]

Wow, just finished 'Ghost Story', brilliant read. What a way to continue the story, i was so unsure of how exactly to would progress.

Spoiler:

I though he might end up possessing Molly & continuing that way. Great incluson of Corpsetaker just to keep the options for ghosts available.

Molly continues to be brilliant, in fact all the minor NPC's are great (with the exception of Thomas at the end, i am a bit unsure of that). It's great that the tone changes back to a low-level gritty story, its not just about Dresden becoming super-human.

Valegrim:

I am in Ryuto's Dresden pbp, but I was thinking maybe of running a Dresden pbp in the future. Of course this would be in a few months, i would not want to undercut his. If you are interested?

Now to re-read it :)

[Matthew Koelbl]

DSXMachina wrote:

It's great that the tone changes back to a low-level gritty story, its not just about Dresden becoming super-human.

Yeah. While all the build-ups and epic battles in recent books have been great, this book took one of the most human looks at Dresden in the entire series, and I found that fantastic. An amazing amount of character growth for many, many characters. And, of course, it already leaves me eagerly waiting to see what comes next.

[DSXMachina]

Exactly, thats IMO what makes the best super-hero stories, mundane lives (& emotions) amongst people with powers. Character development is so important, not new powers (though sometimes they are nice) & in this one it has so much development amongst everyone. Even introducing new characters, yep roll on the next book.

Spoiler:

{Though that can be where i burn out on a series; i get upto date then theres a book every 1-2 year leaving me re-reading the old ones. That & the kinkiness made me stop reading Laurell Hamilton.}

[Matthew Morris]

*sigh* I've not received a shipping notice from Amazon yet.

Sad Hermit.

[Knoq Nixoy]

I'm not sure that he's less powerful than before

[Xabulba]

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

DSXMachina wrote:

It's great that the tone changes back to a low-level gritty story, its not just about Dresden becoming super-human.

Yeah. While all the build-ups and epic battles in recent books have been great, this book took one of the most human looks at Dresden in the entire series, and I found that fantastic. An amazing amount of character growth for many, many characters. And, of course, it already leaves me eagerly waiting to see what comes next.

Spoiler:

Leading thousands of ghosts in the storming of Utah beach doesn't count as "epic", I think you need to recheck what the word epic means.

[Matthew Morris]

Ok, still reading through this but I've had an interesting thought.

Spoiler:

All of Paizo's APs have a 'what if our heroes don't stop the big bad?' section. Ghost Story we're kind of seeing that.

I mean I'd not call Murphy an NPC (to her face) or Molly, or definately Lea. But, they aren't the big damn heroes of the book, Harry is. They are holding their own, barely, but it's taking a greater toll on them than it would on Harry.

I mean if the PCs don't stop the Runelord's return in RotRL, Amiko, the Sherrif, etc etc will step up to defend their town. They may even well succeed in making a direct attack too much of a bother for a Runelord regaining their power. Likewise, the resistance will go on in a Queen controlled Korvosa, but the scrappy band of siddekicks will take more damage w/o the PCs leading them to victory.

Kind of makes me more 'aware' of PC actions in a closed system.

[Matthew Morris]

Finally finished.

Couple thoughts:

Spoiler:

The fallen that whispered in Harry's ear. I immediately thought of Nicodemus, but surely him sending his shadow self to do that wouldn't be cheating? So did old Nick's fallen break the rules by whispering? Or was it Lashiel cheating since he rejected her?

Can Bob beat evil Bob? Or will the end result be the two spirits reform into one?

Was Mab the one killing all the mortals as the 'rag lady'? i.e. Did Molly not break the laws of magic?

I'm going to be curious to see how everyone reacts to Harry getting better.

Aside: Did Jack Murphy really kill himself? I can't picture a suicide being part of Uriel's special forces team.

[Calixymenthillian]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Finally finished.

Couple thoughts:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Can Bob beat evil Bob? Or will the end result be the two spirits reform into one?

I imagine that if Evil Bob defeats Bob, he would consume him for his power, potentially resulting in a recombined entity.

Matthew Morris wrote:

Was Mab the one killing all the mortals as the 'rag lady'? i.e. Did Molly not break the laws of magic?

It looks like most of the deliberate slaying of mortals would have been Leanansidhe, but Molly did have at least one collateral mortal death. Not sure if it breaks the laws of magic though, since the illusion merely put the mortal into a situation where they died, rather than directly killing them.

Matthew Morris wrote:

Aside: Did Jack Murphy really kill himself? I can't picture a suicide being part of Uriel's special forces team.

Sounds reasonable to me, most of Uriel's agents would have some reason to not want to face their ultimate fate... Hmm, now I'm wondering why Carmichael hasn't moved on.

[Phillip0614]

Matthew Morris wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I think the rule that was broken in this case has more to do with the shadow whispering to Harry at all than who was the one who did the whispering. If the whisper hadn't occurred, Harry may never have felt so driven to take the step of becoming the Winter Knight to save his daughter. The thing about the Denarians is the power they offer is always a choice; it's just few people ever have the strength of will to turn them down. The whisper removed free will from the equation as far as Dresden was concerned; it made his ultimate decision an inevitability.

In the same way, I don't think Uriel's whispered words to Harry were completely accurate. I don't think Mab was lying; it has been stated several times that the Sidhe cannot tell an overt lie. Dresden is, in effect, hers. By telling Dresden what Uriel told him, though, it made Harry realize that he even if she wasn't lying outright, she was deceiving him in her emphasis of her control over him and that he had a way he could fight back against Mab and prevent her from ever breaking his spirit in the way she was telling him she could.

[Steev42]

Spoiler:

Quote:

The fallen that whispered in Harry's ear. I immediately thought of Nicodemus, but surely him sending his shadow self to do that wouldn't be cheating? So did old Nick's fallen break the rules by whispering? Or was it Lashiel cheating since he rejected her?

I definitely think it was Lasciel. Butcher's all but confirmed her story isn't done...and just because Lash hasn't been around doesn't mean that Lasciel is completely gone. And what better way to influence someone?

Quote:

Can Bob beat evil Bob? Or will the end result be the two spirits reform into one?

It'll be close. And somehow I'd forgotten that this was left hanging at the end of the story. I think they'll reform--Harry'll need Evil Bob's info at some point. And spirits without parts of themselves just aren't the same being--their Name would have changed.

Quote:

Was Mab the one killing all the mortals as the 'rag lady'? i.e. Did Molly not break the laws of magic?

Lea was probably the one doing much of the killing. Molly didn't kill anyone directly...but those she tricked to her death would certainly be enough to invoke the Doom of Damocles if the council finds out.

[Ivan Rûski]

Spoiler:

Ah, but if it was Lasciel, how was she able to whisper to him in the first place? Her coin is in the church's possesion if I remember correctly. So, shouldn't she be "trapped" in the coin?

[Matthew Morris]

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Well the big thing was whichever Fallen it was broke 'The Rules'. Maybe she broke the rules by getting out? Or she could claim that she still had a connection with Harry if Lash still exists in some form.

I do agree that whatever 'Bob' returns to the skull will likely be the sum of the parts. (Funny reading that after watching Captain America. I kept picturing TV Bob vs the Red (well Blue) Skull.)

Also I think something about Harry is off the charts powerful. He does seem to be able to change things (Ivy, Lash) by renaming them. That would also explain why Uriel get upset about being called Uri. That just leave him as 'light' seperated from G_d.

[Ivan Rûski]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Quote:

Also I think something about Harry is off the charts powerful. He does seem to be able to change things (Ivy, Lash) by renaming them. That would also explain why Uriel get upset about being called Uri. That just leave him as 'light' seperated from G_d.

Yeah, I think that has something to do with the "circumstances of his birth giving him control over outsiders" thing.

Quote:

(Funny reading that after watching Captain America. I kept picturing TV Bob vs the Red (well Blue) Skull.)

Heh...me too.

[Caedwyr]

So, did anyone else notice

Spoiler:

that someone has been messing with the timeline.

Quoted from another website

In DB, Harry visited Mort at a duplex, since he had moved out of his little "California-import" and he commented on Mort having "given up trying to conceal his receding hairline in favor of shaving his scalp completely bald." Yet in the GS sample chapters, Harry goes to the house "Transplanted from Southern California" and comments, "this was the first time I’d seen him sporting a full-on Charles Xavier." Something is up! Dun dun dun.

Kemmler "finally killed" in WWII, not 1960.

GS: Bob and Evil Bob are manifested separately because Bob cleaved the evil parts off at Harry's order early in DB
DB: Evil Bob is still a part of Bob at the Darkhallow.

And of particular note, is the fact the beta readers of the novel have said they caught all of these and Jim Butcher left them in.

Also, Jim has said in the past that Harry is going to have to break all the 7 laws, so time-travel is going to come up at some point.

[Jaatu Bronzescale]

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the Denari are being held in this Church, simply because the two unassigned Swords of the Cross being in Chicago. With what's been going on in the six months since Harry's death, I wouldn't think that Father Forthill would have felt it safe enough to move them anywhere else. IIRC, the balance of the reclaimed Denari were in Chicago when they needed to bargain for Ivy.

[Helaman]

Caedwyr wrote:

So, did anyone else notice ** spoiler omitted **

Do you have any source for what Jim chose to leave in after beta checking?

[Caedwyr]

Yeah

Spoiler:

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,26872.msg1145001.html#ms g1145001. Shecky is one of the beta readers.[/url]

[KaeYoss]

DSXMachina wrote:

It's great that the tone changes back to a low-level gritty story, its not just about Dresden becoming super-human.

To be fair, Harry was a super-human before the first Dresden story even started. He's frikking magic.

And even among wizards, he's not a small bit player. And that becomes apparent quite early in the stories. Vampire Garden Party scene at the latest.

He keeps getting extra goodies and allies and more power, but it's always apparent that he has a long way to go to get to the very top - and he keeps repeating it whenever a really experienced wizard flexes his magical muscles.

[KaeYoss]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Spoiler:

Aside: Did Jack Murphy really kill himself? I can't picture a suicide being part of Uriel's special forces team.

Spoiler:

I don't see why not. Uriel's the angelic black ops guy. Like the Blackstaff, he gets to play fast and loose with the rules some time. That means he doesn't have to obey the "all suicides go to hell" rule if he has better use for a soul.

Plus, depending on how you define suicide, Harry apparently punched his own ticket, too, and Uriel still worked with him.

[KaeYoss]

Changes seemed to change more than almost everything for Harry himself. The whole story arc is changed. Major chapters and sub-plots closed, Ghost Story had a decidedly different feel to it - it somehow felt post-apocalyptic.

And the pace picked up! Before, there usually was quite some time between the books - somewhere between a season and a year if I don't forget something, but Ghost Story followed right on Changes's footsteps (from Harry's PoV, at least), and the cliffhanger ending suggests that whatever the next books is will pick up right where this one ended.

[drayen]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Spoiler:

Aside: Did Jack Murphy really kill himself? I can't picture a suicide being part of Uriel's special forces team.

Spoiler:

Maybe Jack Murphy was "pushed" to kill himself and therefore was not guilty of committing that Catholic mortal sin thus allowing Uriel to step in and balance the scales, giving Jack the chance to come work for him.

[Matthew Morris]

drayen wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

That was my thought too.

[Valegrim]

Sure would or any other that opens up you hear about; take a look at my character if you like; think it was Aximeaus by clicking on my avatar and looking at aliases

DSXMachina wrote:

Wow, just finished 'Ghost Story', brilliant read. What a way to continue the story, i was so unsure of how exactly to would progress.

** spoiler omitted **

Molly continues to be brilliant, in fact all the minor NPC's are great (with the exception of Thomas at the end, i am a bit unsure of that). It's great that the tone changes back to a low-level gritty story, its not just about Dresden becoming super-human.

** spoiler omitted **

Now to re-read it :)

[Valegrim]

a little technical update for you; suicide is no longer considered a sin as to sin you must be sane thus able to choose. It is considered insane to commit suicide so you dont have the ability to choose.

drayen wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

[Valegrim]

Valegrim wrote:

a little technical update for you; suicide is no longer considered a sin as to sin you must be sane thus able to choose. It is considered insane to commit suicide so you dont have the ability to choose.

Harry has been very self destructive in all the books; but I was still surprized, though I shouldn't have been, after the example he gave us of drinking that stuff to get out of another deal with his godmother.

drayen wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

[Valegrim]

I was totally afraid that Ghost Story was the last book, I wonder what is next for Harry and I hope we find out soon.

[Valegrim]

over the last week I re watched the Dresden Files tv show; way off kilter and no where near as enjoyable as the books; but I started to get into the last few episodes. Every series is slow to start; think this could have gone somewhere, but didnt.

[Matthew Morris]

Valegrim wrote:

over the last week I re watched the Dresden Files tv show; way off kilter and no where near as enjoyable as the books; but I started to get into the last few episodes. Every series is slow to start; think this could have gone somewhere, but didnt.

I'll say the best thing of the TV show was Hrothbert of Bainbridge. I officially became a Terrance Mann fan with that episode. It is amusing though that Susan looked like Karrin and vice versa casting wise. Well that and we met a skinwalker in the first episode.

Spoiler:

I still find myself wondering if Book Old Mai is a dragon, like TV old Mai.

[Ivan Rûski]

drayen wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Or, the Catholic's are wrong about suicide being a one-way ticket to hell in the Dresdenverse.

Matthew Morris wrote:

I'll say the best thing of the TV show was Hrothbert of Bainbridge.

Totally agree.

Spoiler:

I'm wondering now, how are Murphy, Molly, and the others going to react when Harry shows up alive? Murphy spent most of the book doubting it was really him, after all. Then, after she's finally accepted his death, it turns out he's alive? I see problems.

[Matthew Morris]

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I see Molly as relieved, Murphy as angry (doubly so when he confirms Kincaid killed him and it was Harry's idea) Father Forthill of course will be serene. ;-)

[Epic Meepo]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Which reminds me...

Spoiler:

Since Kincaid agreed to kill the new Winter Knight, and since he technically failed to do so, does that mean that Kincaid is honor-bound to come after Harry again? I'm inclined to think that it does. As long as Harry remains the Winter Knight, that is.

[Matthew Morris]

Epic Meepo wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Which reminds me...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Well since Mab said he was 'mostly dead' I think that makes him dead enough for the deal. Picture the 3rd time he shoots and she heals Harry. Harry writes down somewhere, "Ivy, please tell Kincaid to stop shooting me. Sincerely, Harry."

[Valegrim]

hehe Mat; that sounds like the Princess Bride; lol

Spoiler:

depends on the language of his agreement with Kincaid; think it is a done deal; he did his thing; not his problem somebody undoes it.

Matthew Morris wrote:

Epic Meepo wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Which reminds me...

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

[Ivan Rûski]

Epic Meepo wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Ivan Rûski wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Which reminds me...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

This COULD happen, but I don't think it will. He did it because he owed Harry a favor anyways, so Harry could just call him up and call it off. Although, the note to Ivy would be quite funny.

On another topic, I just started listening to the audiobooks. James Marsters does an excellent job!

[Epic Meepo]

So, does anyone have any theories about...

Spoiler:

...what Demonreach was talking about when he referred to "the parasite" maintaining Harry's flow of blood while Mab provided breath and the island provided nourishment?

[Cpt_kirstov]

Epic Meepo wrote:

So, does anyone have any theories about...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Lash - part of his brain died... doesn't mean thats the only part lash was part of, maybe just the part she could use to communicate with him