Rapid Shot vs Rapid Reload attack penalties

[Achilles]

If a character with +6/+1 base attacks uses a light crossbow with Rapid Reload, are these normal attacks (+6/+1), or are they treated as rapid shot with -2 penalties? I guess the relaod times are what are confusing...if I did not have rapid reload, would rapid shot even do anything? So, if I have a 9th level fighter with 17 dex with rapid reload using a +1 light crossbow of speed and +2 bolts, how many shots and at what bonus am I looking at? Now if I added rapid shot to the mix?

[MinstrelintheGallery]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, rapid reload merely lets you take all the attacks, it includes no penalty in and of itself.

[Thazar]

Without out rapid reload crossbows can only ever fire one bolt per shot items. You cannot fire more then one bolt per round at all. With Rapid Reload you can fire most crossbows in the exact same way you could fire a bow. This then opens up rapid shot, manyshot, etc.

(Note things that give you extra actions or repeating crossbows can in theory give you more then one shot per round with a crossbow.)

[Name Violation]

Achilles wrote:

If a character with +6/+1 base attacks uses a light crossbow with Rapid Reload, are these normal attacks (+6/+1), or are they treated as rapid shot with -2 penalties? I guess the relaod times are what are confusing...if I did not have rapid reload, would rapid shot even do anything? So, if I have a 9th level fighter with 17 dex with rapid reload using a +1 light crossbow of speed and +2 bolts, how many shots and at what bonus am I looking at? Now if I added rapid shot to the mix?

+14/+14/+9, not including feats and weapon training. Rapid shot would make it +12/+12/+12/+7. Without rapid reload its just +14, that's it.

If you're gonna take a feat for rapid reload, you may just want to take EWP repeating crossbow instead.

[TyrodBoshi]

Can anyone get definite info on if you can actually use rapid reload and rapid shot together using a heavy crossbow?
I think that you can use it but need definite proof as there is some pushback from my friends..
Im at 3rd level now.

[Maezer]

TyrodBoshi wrote:

Can anyone get definite info on if you can actually use rapid reload and rapid shot together using a heavy crossbow?

To use rapid shot with a heavy crossbow, you need to get the reload time down to a free action (probably Crossbow Mastery). Rapid Reload by itself does not achieve this as it only makes it a move action to reload a heavy crossbow.

[Jeraa]

TyrodBoshi wrote:

Can anyone get definite info on if you can actually use rapid reload and rapid shot together using a heavy crossbow?

I think that you can use it but need definite proof as there is some pushback from my friends..
Im at 3rd level now.

No, you can't. Reloading a heavy crossbow is normally a standard action. Rapid Reload only reduces it to a move action. Rapid Shot is done as a full attack - a full round action. You can't normally do a full round action and a move action in the same round.

In order to use Rapid Shot with a crossbow, you need to get the reload time down to free action.

[Gisher]

You can't. Rapid Reload reduces your reload time to a Move Action. Rapid Shot requires that you use a Full Attack Action which means that you don't have a Move Action left to reload.

You can use both feats together if you use a Light Crossbow or Hand Crossbow since Rapid Reload reduces their reload times to Free Actions.

[Zarius]

From Rapid Reload:
"Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, heavy) or a single type of one-handed or two-handed firearm that you are proficient with. You can reload such a weapon quickly.

[...]

Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of weapon is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow), a move action (for heavy crossbow or one-handed firearm), or a standard action (two-handed firearm)."

If you have a FREE ACTION for reloading, you can fire it as many times as your BAB allows. If you have a +16 BAB, you can fire it four times in a round (5, if hasted.)

For a HEAVY crossbow, it becomes a MOVE Action. You can only fire it once per round, period, because you can't increase the speed enough to give you a fast enough reload speed. Unfortunately, even Haste won't let you bypass it. The ONLY exception, even WITH Rapid Shot, would be if your crossbow was already loaded at the beginning of the round (it says nothing about accelerating the reload speed). Rapid Shot is designed for ranged weapons that have a free-action reload, such as thrown weapons and regular bows.

[Lady-J]

yes with rapid reload and crossbow master you can reload a heavy crossbow as a free action and a light/hand crossbow as a non action

[Zarius]

Well, there we go. Thank you, Lady-J. Crossbow Mastery is your key. You might have to wait until level 5.

But with JUST the feats mentioned in the original post, it cannot be done.