Spell Combat + Haste / Hasted Assault = Not compatible?


Round 3: Revised Magus Discussion


8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Haste grants you an extra attack "when you take the full attack action."

When you use spell combat, you are using a full round action, not a full attack action.

Since you do not have enough actions in a round to use both, you can't use haste in conjunction with spell combat (at least not to get an extra attack).

After all, an attack action is not the same as a standard action made to make an attack. If it were, you would be able to use cleave, vital strike, and similar feats together, which the game designers have specifically ruled out.

Am I right that you can't have your cake and it too? :(


12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.
Ravingdork wrote:

Haste grants you an extra attack "when you take the full attack action."

When you use spell combat, you are using a full round action, not a full attack action.

Since you do not have enough actions in a round to use both, you can't use haste in conjunction with spell combat (at least not to get an extra attack).

After all, an attack action is not the same as a standard action made to make an attack. If it were, you would be able to use cleave, vital strike, and similar feats together, which the game designers have specifically ruled out.

Am I right that you can't have your cake and it too? :(

This is correct.

But if TWF is a full attack action, why isn't spell combat?


Probably something they'll want to clarify, but until then, I'd say don't sweat it, they're meant to work together.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
KaeYoss wrote:
Probably something they'll want to clarify, but until then, I'd say don't sweat it, they're meant to work together.

Well, towards that end, would you please hit the FAQ button along with the rest of us? That should help get their attention on the matter.


Ravingdork wrote:

Haste grants you an extra attack "when you take the full attack action."

When you use spell combat, you are using a full round action, not a full attack action.

Since you do not have enough actions in a round to use both, you can't use haste in conjunction with spell combat (at least not to get an extra attack).

After all, an attack action is not the same as a standard action made to make an attack. If it were, you would be able to use cleave, vital strike, and similar feats together, which the game designers have specifically ruled out.

Am I right that you can't have your cake and it too? :(

That's a problem... I guess we can put it together with Wand Wielder breaking Spell Combat.

Easiest solution would be changing the wording from "make all your attacks" to "make a full attack".

Sovereign Court

Logically haste should affect somatic-only spells. But I can see why it wouldn't affect ones with verbal components. I don't care how hasted I was, my tongue would still trip on words if I was talking at 2x the speed.


Kryzbyn wrote:
But if TWF is a full attack action, why isn't spell combat?

Because spell combat is "a full round action in which you make all attacks allowed by your bab plus cast a spell that takes a standard action to cast". Yes, "all attacks allowed by your bab" is a full attack... but until the thing says "you do a full attack", you are not doing a full attack.


KilroySummoner wrote:
Logically haste should affect somatic-only spells. But I can see why it wouldn't affect ones with verbal components. I don't care how hasted I was, my tongue would still trip on words if I was talking at 2x the speed.

Haste never allows you to cast an extra spell, as per the description.


Synapse wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
But if TWF is a full attack action, why isn't spell combat?
Because spell combat is "a full round action in which you make all attacks allowed by your bab plus cast a spell that takes a standard action to cast". Yes, "all attacks allowed by your bab" is a full attack... but until the thing says "you do a full attack", you are not doing a full attack.

Spell Combat is (according to Jason B) modeled after TWF.

Instead of using your offhand to get 1 2 or 3 extra attacks, you're using it to cast a spell.
Using your off hand to make extra attacks lowers all of your attacks' to hit by 2.
Using your offhand to cast lowers all of your attacks' to hit by 2.
TWF is a full attack action.
Spell Combat is a full round action.

I know what the rules say. I'm questioning why.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Considering that Haste IS one of the Mage Arcana, I think we can safely assume that Haste will give the usual extra melee attack. Spell combat is essentially a Full Attack sequence plus a spell cast, a full attack set within a full round action.


Kryzbyn wrote:


I know what the rules say. I'm questioning why.

Because we are being strict to the point of pedantry. Might as well do it before the game is released, at which point pedant trolls will have a better time denying any possible FAQ, Clarification or Errata.


FAQed good catch Ravingdork, maybe we should FAQ the threat about weapon attacks and critical hits too?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Banpai wrote:
FAQed good catch Ravingdork, maybe we should FAQ the threat about weapon attacks and critical hits too?

Another chance to criticize the developer's ruling on what an "attack action" is, was motivation enough for me to bring it up.


Ravingdork wrote:
Banpai wrote:
FAQed good catch Ravingdork, maybe we should FAQ the threat about weapon attacks and critical hits too?
Another chance to criticize the developer's ruling on what an "attack action" is, was motivation enough for me to bring it up.

Well, it´s just awesome that you have found a way to channel your evil powers for good ^^. But seriously every annoying nitpicky, close minded , stupid (kidding^^) and bendy attempt to break, bend, crush the class and its abilities - and I really appreciate it - should allow the devs to close the holes right now.

This should prevent hundreds of posts on the boards after Ultimate Magic hits the shelves, so what you are doing is indeed valuabe playtest data.

Carry on ^^

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Ultimate Magic Playtest / Round 3: Revised Magus Discussion / Spell Combat + Haste / Hasted Assault = Not compatible? All Messageboards
Recent threads in Round 3: Revised Magus Discussion