How many people would want to play in a game that starts out with the party tasked to 'deal with' a local infestation of kender?I wouldn't do it the way the DM intended, but if this is what I had before me, I would start with Knowledge Religion checks to figure out which perverse and mad god cursed the world with Kender, then set out on a crusade to burn this god's temples to the ground until the god reconsidered his awful mistake and turned them back into halflings or goblins or whatever they were before.
If there were an orbital mind control laser or similar magic charming all good and neutral beings into being amused by the kender's "playful antics," I would work to destroy it, as it is clearly the work of an evil god or madman who hates free will.
In short, rather than commit genocide, I would set out to remove kender from existence so that they never were.
Barring patronage of a mad god, kender could not exist. Hence, the thing to do is to deal with the mad god.
This could make for quite a campaign.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I remember the days before Scrappy. They were good days.
Scooby Doo:
Kender are a lot like Scrappy, they're designed to derail the game and steal attention.
I don't have my Dragon Compendium at work (hugs his CDs) but I'll find the original write up when I get home. Still it boils down to, if you want to play a kender that isn't disruptive or causing trouble, then play a halfling.
(kender soured me so badly I think, that it too Eberron to make halflings playable again)
I'd like to put this up as summation as this thread has gone as far as it can go.
...
In other words... stick a fork in this thread... it's done.
I feel compelled to ask: please, do not try to "end" a topic of discussion.
Too many people on these boards feel the need to "play moderator" and tell people when a thread is over, and it's incredibly frustrating. Paizo has competent moderation, and if you have a problem with a post, flag it for them to evaluate.
This thread has been pretty reasonably calm during this discussion, and doesn't need someone assuming the role of parent to everyone that it's time to stop.
If you personally are done with the thread, feel free to step out and let the rest of the participants continue with the conversation if they desire.
We're having a debate about kender, and I, for one, would like to see the original write-up that Matthew Morris mentioned. Stifling the conversation we're having limits my ability to see that.
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On that note, Matthew, if you know the issue of Dragon that it was in, let me know - I have my Compendium CDs on the bookshelf about 10 feet away, so I can easily grab it.
On that note, Matthew, if you know the issue of Dragon that it was in, let me know - I have my Compendium CDs on the bookshelf about 10 feet away, so I can easily grab it.
I think I may have found it, or at least, found something relevant.
Dragon #214 has a feature titled "First Quest", written by Harold Jones. It starts on page 8, continues on page 70.
I'll post some quotes I found humorous or relevant (or both!) to the discussion at hand.
In reference to being asked to write this installment of the "First Quest" column:
After an hour I came to the conclusion that this column shouldn’t be called FIRST QUEST, it should be called ANNOYING QUEST. Every installment showed that TSR employees loved to play characters to annoy other players and DMs. Hmmm? Now that’s an interesting hat to try on. I bet I’ve got them all beat. I’ve played ten times more characters and annoyed ten times more players in my history as a roleplayer.
By this time I missed the chaos I could cause when playing a PC. So I dusted off my player hat occasionally just to see if it still fit.
I'm going to post snippets of the next several paragraphs, rather than the whole thing, as it's rather long, and I don't know that it would be kosher, given the whole copyright bit. Selected bits and pieces shouldn't be an issue.
My hero Almar Tann, a wandering halfling thief, was created to playtest the Desert of Desolation module series in a campaign run by Tracy Hickman.
Little did I suspect that Tracy was about to whisk Al and the others off to the developing world of the DRAGONLANCE Saga and the first adventure, Dragons of Darkness.
After determining that halflings didn't belong in this new world, and that Almar was rather derivative of Tolkien, Jones retired him and came up with a replacement for both the race and the character:
It was up to me to create a replacement, so I found my God of Krynn hat and fashioned the incorrigible kender, that childlike race that refuses to grow up, and the first kender representative, Tasslehoff Burrfoot.
Now anyone who has ever played a kender, had the misfortune to bump into a kender, or even heard of kender has swiftly discovered there is no more aggravating, though brave and clever, race of creature in the multiverse. Let’s see somebody top that for annoying!
This is the man credited with conceiving of the race and it's iconic character in the prototype Dragonlance gameworld created and ran by Tracy Hickman, one of the two creators/designers of that world. I believe that I've also read before that Margaret Weis took part in these game sessions (perhaps in the "30 Years of Adventure" retrospective).
How do you folks interpret the above? That kender were created to be annoyances to screw with the rest of the party? It sure seems that way to me, but I'd still be interested in opposing viewpoints.
But they do not have to be played that way!
I will continue to assert that people can use the racial write up as inspiration and then using imagination play that character well!
Nobody is arguing that, friend.
What we're saying is that if you don't play to the racial write-up, you're not playing a kender.
You personally, and others, have made continued assertions that we're misinterpreting the racial write-up, or we're making things up that, in fact, are reinforced by that very racial write-up.
Obviously, play what you want, how you want, but when debating a published fictional race, you can't make up traits and characteristics of that race based on your playstyle.
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What we're saying is that if you don't play to the racial write-up, you're not playing a kender.
So if you're playing a "dwarf" that has any degree of respect for an elf, a halfling, or a gnome, then you're not playing a dwarf.
Wow, dwarves are pretty g~*!@+n rare...much more rare than I had ever thought.
What we're saying is that if you don't play to the racial write-up, you're not playing a kender.So if you're playing a "dwarf" that has any degree of respect for an elf, a halfling, or a gnome, then you're not playing a dwarf.
Wow, dwarves are pretty g~&+%$n rare...much more rare than I had ever thought.
Not the same thing, as has been discussed earlier.
Your dwarf can learn to have a begrudging respect for an elf, a halfling, a gnome.
A kender who actually learns to stop doing what it's been conditioned to do is a halfling. Why bother with the kender, then? What's the point? Outside of Dragonlance, there's absolutely no point.
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A kender who actually learns to stop doing what it's been conditioned to do is a halfling. Why bother with the kender, then? What's the point? Outside of Dragonlance, there's absolutely no point.
Lots of people still play with Tolkien-esque halflings (AKA hobbits), not the kender-lite (now with added blandness...and none of the cool stuff) crap halflings that came with 3.X.
Not playing a kender as written is like saying your a gnome and using the gnome ablites but acting just like your a dwarf then claiming..nope I am a gnome.
The kender write up is much like the gnome write up, you can't not use it and claim your playing that race.
Adopted trait....
Does not do what you think it does. A gnome raised by a dwarf is still a gnome, not a dwarf in a gnomes body. A kender is always a kender..except it seems when it might derail a game then he is not a kender till that has passed.
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Not playing a kender as written is like saying your a gnome and using the gnome ablites but acting just like your a dwarf then claiming..nope I am a gnome.
The kender write up is much like the gnome write up, you can't not use it and claim your playing that race.
So are dwarves who willingly works with elves, halflings, or gnomes simply humans that have had their legs amputated at the knees? Because that's not playing the gnome as written.
Nowhere in the racial writeup does it say a dwarf can have a begrudging respect for those races. If flat out states that dwarves DO NOT respect those races.
My point is that the racial descriptions are a general guideline to the race as a whole...NOT a cage that your character can never break free from.
Sigh, the kender is written like the gnome. Not the dwarf or elf, his curiosity, thievery, delusional lies and deathwish like fearlessness is not a suggestion, it is not something he can turn off. It is what makes him a kender.
Much like a gnomes bleaching, the overwhelming need to collect things and alien mindset it is what makes a kender. You can't simply cut it out and still be a kender. They are part of the biological make up of the freaking race.
My point is that the racial descriptions are a general guideline to the race as a whole...NOT a cage that your character can never break free from.
That argument is only being used when a kender is going to derail the game. Then it's a atypical kender that doesn't act like the rest of it's race.
For example, the kender will only act like a kender to non-party members, or only act like a kender to NPCs that aren't going to retaliate against it or the party.
In fact, that's pretty much the pro-kender argument in this thread - a kender is a kender, except when it's unwise (from a metagame standpoint) to be a kender.
Will a kender taunt a dangerous foe that could eliminate it? Oh, no, kender aren't that foolish!
Kender are tantalized by the prospect of the new and exciting, and only the most extreme circumstances force them to place their own self-preservation above this pursuit. Even the threat of imminent demise does not deter kender, for death is the start of the next truly big adventure
Would a kender crack a safe and rifle through safety deposit boxes? Oh, no, that would be a crime, and kender don't find stuffy banks interesting!
All dark caves need exploring, all locked doors need opening, and all chests hide something interesting.
Would a kender say something offensive that could put the party in jeopardy, or somehow negatively affect the party goal? No, kender can learn self-control!
Kender cannot keep secrets to save their lives and happily blurt out intensely personal information about themselves or anyone else.
The list goes on and on.
Once you start throwing out all of these racial traits, you don't have a one-off kender anymore, you have something that is so diametrically opposed to a kender that one needs to wonder why you would play a kender.
When you only play those traits when it's convenient to play them, then you're not even playing an "enlightened" kender, you're just playing a halfling that acts like a jackass when it's convenient.
These things are mutually exclusive - you're either playing a kender full-time, or you're not playing a kender.
By your measurement then, Tasslehoff was not a kender? What I preceive is that there isn't agreement of what the goalposts are for "playing to the racial write-up". Some folks here don't think it's a ADD midget who's constantly pick-pocketing his fellow companions or everyone else he sees.
Kender are never happier than when their hands are in the pockets, pouches, or backpacks of those around them.
Tasslehoff was most definitely a kender, and stole from his friends. And bragged about it.
Edited to add:
Can a kender grow and learn? Can it rise above it's baser nature, and learn that these things are wrong?
Perhaps, but when they continue to "handle", they're not handling, they're stealing. They're a thief.
When they make their excuses about why they've got the stolen property, it's no longer their "innocence" having caused them to "forget" they had the item, or were only holding onto it for safety. Their excuses are now blatant lies.
The fear bit? That's a big one that can't be argued away at "oh, I've learned that big monsters with sharp teeth are dangerous, and I keep my distance, and don't provoke it".
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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And more literally to the point... He didn't "steal" and he didn't go around "Hey look what I took from you weren't looking!" Perhaps Tasslehoff would have been booted from a different party... but that party would not have been the Heroes of the Lance.
"Besides," He giggled, "The dagger was Flint's."
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By your measurement then, Tasslehoff was not a kender? What I preceive is that there isn't agreement of what the goalposts are for "playing to the racial write-up". Some folks here don't think it's a ADD midget who's constantly pick-pocketing his fellow companions or everyone else he sees.Kender are never happier than when their hands are in the pockets, pouches, or backpacks of those around them.Tasslehoff was most definitely a kender, and stole from his friends. And bragged about it.He didn't do so to the point that Tanis and the others actually booted him from the party though, because his contributions to both the party and morale outweighed the minor annoyances. And it's important to note that in the Twins trilogy, Tasslehoff is the moral center of the group. In the original novels he's mainly the friendly foil of Caramon and Flint, and the opposite of Raistlin.
And more literally to the point... He didn't "steal" and he didn't go around "Hey look what I took from you weren't looking!" Perhaps Tasslehoff would have been booted from a different party... but that party would not have been the Heroes of the Lance.
You really should change that to "He didn't do so to the point that Tanis and the others actually booted him from the party though, because his contributions to the plot, and status as a character in a novel gave him character immunity to being treated the way rational sentient beings would treat him."
Because Hickman and Weis were writing about a character specifically designed to be most obnoxious and annoying to other characters. It's called literary license.
Gaming is different. A book only has to be entertaining to the person reading it. A game has to be fun for all involved. And I doubt I exaggerate if I say at least 98% of the gamers I've run into, played with, read on message boards and forums or even just heard about think kender genocide would be a good thing. Because, unless you like being a dick, kender are not fun.
Gaming is different. A book only has to be entertaining to the person reading it. A game has to be fun for all involved. And I doubt I exaggerate if I say at least 98% of the gamers I've run into, played with, read on message boards and forums or even just heard about think kender genocide would be a good thing. Because, unless you like being a dick, kender are not fun.
And it's not like those people are overreacting and reading more into a kender than what's been written, either, given the fact that the creator of the kender and Tasslehoff is challenging people to top the annoyance level of kender.
Because, unless you like being a dick, kender are not fun.
I LOVE being a dick. It is my defining characteristic. You know what? Still wouldn't play a kender. Respect my friends too much.
All of this comes via Tas, by way of Chronicles and Legends, which, for me, outweigh a poorly-worded racial writeup.
You know, when that write-up is published by one of the two creators of the DL universe, I'm going to give it equal credence to the novels written by that same creator.
Hell, over the weekend I'm thinking about taking the 3.0 writeup that I posted (mostly a copy of 2E kender writeup, only changed to 3.0 stats) and re-writing it, putting it in PFRPG stats and re-wording it so it's obvious that just like all the other races, the writeup is meant as a general guideline for the race as a whole.
Or, one could use Kevin's well-written re-imagining of kender for Golarion posted earlier, which is eminently more tolerable and believable than actual kender, and doesn't hardwire idiotic traits into the genetics of the race like the official one does.
Quoting for those who missed it 3 pages ago:
Now, this all said, if you want to "build a Kender without Kender hate," the recipe is fairly simple:
You have to give them the capacity to learn and grow, both personally and as a culture.
Yes, there's been a lot written about the Kender. Most of it makes little sense from a world building perspective, or is highly specific to the world that it's from, which comes with a great number of its own preconceptions.
Rather than go with all those, and "the RAW says this!" and going into verbal gymnastics to get around contradiction, the best idea idea is to reenvision them for a specific setting.
For example, if you want to keep Kender "innocence," they need to be from an issolated culture, both geographically and culturally. That way when they do their "innocents abroad" shtick, they can actually be innocent, as opposed to obnoxious idiots who wander around feigning innocence but have actually been around the block enough to know a thing or two.
I'd think they'd need to be somewhere between the Amish--in particular the custom of Rumspringa where the young adults are sent out to get a taste of the outside world before coming back to settle down as part of the community--and historic Japan when they'd blocked out the rest of the world, if not being a kept species entirely with some powerful "patron" who has a vested interest in keeping them "innocent."
In Golarion, the obvious candidate would be Mengkare, the great gold wyrm of Hermia, who's already doing captive breeding experiments trying to breed superior members of all sorts of races, so it's completely possible he's got a little isle off the coast of Hermea where he's cooked up a side project, mating some halflings, elves, gnomes and humans together until he's got something that resembles a kender and he raises them up to be "innocent." This also adequately explains where the kender get their fussy clothes from without any apparent ability to make stuff themselves: They're presents from their patron, who sort of flies by with a cargo cult type thing going, but with a dragon instead of an airplane.
Property among the kender is also communal when it isn't a gift economy. This explains their pilfering as being actually "innocent" because in their issolated society, they really don't have any concept of personal property, or even that much of value. Hell, to steal a concept from Pippi Longstocking, they grew up playing marbles with pearls. Yes, they're valuable, but only the way a child's marbles are valuable. The outside world's valuation of such things? Mindboggling.
The Kender excuses? The only way to keep them "innocent" (as opposed to creepy bald-faced lies) is to put in a huge degree of cultural misunderstanding.
Let's say that when Mengkare mail drops supplies for his little Kender side project, he does so in standard adventurers packs. To the Kender, these have the cultural context of a big box tied with ribbons and a bow. A present? For me? You shouldn't have! Going into the outside world, seeing someone having left a beautiful "present bag" just sitting there? It's like finding an easter egg. That way "I thought it was a present for me!" or "I found it first!" can be said in all innocence.
The taunting? Give the Kender an artform (and they desperately need one) which is a combination of the old flytting (poetic insults) and a modern celebrity roast. The mechanics for kender taunts can then exist but with some cultural context.
There. That gives you Kender, who on running out into Golarion would do all sorts of Kenderlike things, up to and including crying when people are mean and call them thieves--not that they know what that means, but it sounds bad.
Of course, what this also means is that the little Kender would either run back to the Isle of Kender (never to return to the cruel outside world) or else they would grow up and start to get a clue, realizing that just because an adventurer's pack looks like a present, in the outside world, it's a sign of personal property instead.
That's how you'd build a Kender without the Kender hate.
I am of the opinion that a deity of innocence created Kender, then a demon prince twisted their curiosity so they were only interested in things that don't belong to them.
A wish spell or a greater remove curse will help a Kender.
Kender lie about their crimes, and know they do it:
The Magus ignored his request. "Tasslehoff. An unfamiliar name, though I recognize Burrfoot as common among the kenderfolk. How did you get into this fortress?"
Tasslehoff smiled, all innocence, though he was sure that his arms were getting bruised. "Oh, I dunno, I was wandering by and saw your place up here, so I thought I'd step in, see how you were doing."
The Magus hissed as if he were a viper that had been stepped upon. Tasslehoff's voice faded away. "That's not going to work, is it?" Tasslehoff finished lamely.
He's not making an excuse that he actually believes, he's lying. He knows his lie isn't going to work, so he gives up on it.
Kender steal, and know they do it:
Mapmaking was not his only hobby, however. Occasionally, Tasslehoff would see something small and interesting within easy reach. When no one was looking, he'd borrow the item to admire it; oftentimes when he finished looking at it, the owner was gone. With a sigh, he'd drop the item in one of his many pockets and move on. He never meant to steal anything. Things just came out like that.
He knows taking things is wrong, so he "borrows" the item, first making sure that nobody's looking, lest he be caught because he knows it's wrong. When he discovers that the owner is gone, he doesn't leave the item, but he pockets it, finalizing the theft. He "didn't mean to steal", but he knows he did steal.
He's got kleptomania, knows what he's doing is wrong, but can't help himself and refuses to get help. Kinda makes you not really care about him taking offense when you call him a thief.
This is Tasslehoff's first appearance in print, for what it's worth.
Edit: Apparently this is Tasslehoff's first FICTION appearance in print. DL1: Dragons of Despair appears to have been published in March of 1984, and may be the true first appearance of the character.
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Kender lie about their crimes, and know they do it:
The Magus ignored his request. "Tasslehoff. An unfamiliar name, though I recognize Burrfoot as common among the kenderfolk. How did you get into this fortress?"
Tasslehoff smiled, all innocence, though he was sure that his arms were getting bruised. "Oh, I dunno, I was wandering by and saw your place up here, so I thought I'd step in, see how you were doing."
The Magus hissed as if he were a viper that had been stepped upon. Tasslehoff's voice faded away. "That's not going to work, is it?" Tasslehoff finished lamely.
He's not making an excuse that he actually believes, he's lying. He knows his lie isn't going to work, so he gives up on it.
Kender steal, and know they do it:
Mapmaking was not his only hobby, however. Occasionally, Tasslehoff would see something small and interesting within easy reach. When no one was looking, he'd borrow the item to admire it; oftentimes when he finished looking at it, the owner was gone. With a sigh, he'd drop the item in one of his many pockets and move on. He never meant to steal anything. Things just came out like that.He knows taking things is wrong, so he "borrows" the item, first making sure that nobody's looking, lest he be caught because he knows it's wrong. When he discovers that the owner is gone, he doesn't leave the item, but he pockets it, finalizing the theft. He "didn't mean to steal", but he knows he did steal.
He's got kleptomania, knows what he's doing is wrong, but can't help himself and refuses to get help. Kinda makes you not really care about him taking offense when you call him a thief.
This is Tasslehoff's first appearance in print, for what it's worth.
Was that the Demogorgon story?
And Dragons of Autumn Twilight was released a month earlier.
Was that the Demogorgon story?
And Dragons of Autumn Twilight was released a month earlier.
Yes to the first.
Wikipedia and Amazon say November of 1984 for Dragons of Autumn Twilight.
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Was that the Demogorgon story?
And Dragons of Autumn Twilight was released a month earlier.
Yes to the first.
Wikipedia and Amazon say November of 1984 for Dragons of Autumn Twilight.
Hmmm, when I checked Wiki, it said April. But, it's wiki, it probably has seven different dates on the 20 different Dragonlance pages...
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Tasslehoff was most definitely a kender, and stole from his friends. And bragged about it.
He didn't do so to the point that Tanis and the others actually booted him from the party though, because his contributions to both the party and morale outweighed the minor annoyances.
What contribution would that be?
The ability to use Thief skills?There must have been hundreds of other people they could have recruited along the way, who don't come with the baggage.
If they need someone to deal with locks and traps, why not a tinker gnome? (OK, I take that back. That would simply be swapping one liability for another).
Why not a dwarven locksmith?
Bringing in multiple editions, multiple authors, and multiple explanations complicates the matter, especially in regards to having a "final authority," but honestly, if you look at all the explanations together, they don't hold water.
Let's go through the various troubles people have with Kender in order.
Trouble #1: Kender lie
Explanation A: Kender lie the same way everybody does, though play up the cute/innocent cards because they look the part.
Problem: Kender are morally no better than any other liars. If you believe lying is an evil act, then kender are guilty of it. If not, not.
Explanation B: Kender are pathological liars.
Problem: This means Kender are crazy, and not in a pleasant way. They are not to be trusted.
Explanation C: Kender are actively delusional and actually believe the excuses they make up.
Problem: This means Kender are severely crazy. Next thing you know they'll be saying the halfling's riding dog told them to go kill people and they'll be calling themselves "The Son of Samwise."
Trouble #2: Kender steal
Explanation A: Kender steal the same way everyone does, then cover it up with lies and an innocent act the same as any human street urchin.
Problem: Kender are morally no better than any other thieves. If theft is evil, then Kender are committing acts of evil.
Explanation B: Kender are kleptomaniacs.
Problem: This means Kender are mentally ill and like many mentally ill people, refuse to admit they have a problem or seek help. They may be pitied, but never trusted.
Explanation C: Kender are from a society with no notion of personal property or personal boundaries and moreover have a strong desire to "handle" intriguing objects.
Problem: If this were really the case, Kender would not wait until people were not looking to start going through their packs, and wouldn't bother with slight of hand checks to go through their pockets.
Another Problem: If this really were the case, you'd also think Kender society would have hit upon the idea of having Wunderkammers or "Cabinets of Curiosities" in their homes so guests could pick out items they found of interest and also where they could leave surprises for their hosts in the form of items which the Kender had handled to the point of growing tired with, but hoped it might bring wonder to someone new. Kender would reasonably be a gift-giving culture, as opposed to a pocket-picking culture.
The Biggest Problem: If this is all a matter of culture, Kender will at some point realize that other cultures have different notions of property and personal boundaries. To persist in their "handling" in the face of other cultures that object to this is sheer cultural imperialism and hubris, which goes under the "lawful evil" subheading in most lexicons, and even if it doesn't, doesn't win you any friends.
Trouble #3: Kender have ADHD
Explanation A: Kender have ADHD. That's it.
Problem: There's no way that an entire society with ADHD could survive. Either it's a transitory stage, or not every Kender has it, and there are a few incredibly overworked harried responsible ones who are making sure the rest get fed, clothed, and don't have their houses collapse. Or else they're a pet race, kept and maintained by another race's empire, a powerful dragon or a god who has the resources to spare for a largely useless species.
Trouble #4: Kender are incredibly annoying and taunt people to the point of apoplexy
Explanation A: Kender are naturally this annoying.
Problem: Any race this annoying would quickly find itself at the top of the short list for genocide even if it didn't have any other problems.
Explanation B: Kender use their telling insights to home in on their foes weaknesses and insecurities.
Problem: It's unbelievable for a race to be so sharp in this department but incredibly dull in others.
Explanation C: Kender voices are hideously shrill.
Problem: Any race that made harpies sound sweet and pleasant in comparison would not be greatly beloved.
There are probably other items I missed, but I think this pretty much shows why no version of the Kender work without huge amounts of willing suspension of disbelief or major redlining of huge swaths of the canon, if not both.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Sorry for the delay, I didn't have the Magazine installed on this computer (Note to self, get a jump drive for the PDFs)
Dragon Magazine 101, all about the kender. Roger E. Moore.
excerpts:
Kender society can also be hard to take. Non-kender visitors rarely stay longer than a week in any major kender town, unless they have a sense of humor. “"If an asylum had turned loose its inmates and a jail its thieves to run this city," wrote one traveler
of Kendermore, "the end result could not have been more atrocious. I have been robbed a dozen times today, twice by constables and once by a child who could barely reach my kneecaps."
Kender Traits
Kender are utterly fearless, insatiably curious, unstoppably mobile and independent, and will pick up anything that is
not nailed down (though kender with claw hammers will get those things as well).
They have no desire to be the second or third persons who ever
entered and left the Caverns of Unspeakable Doom; they want to be the very first. Pointing out that no one returns from the Caverns of Unspeakable Doom has no effect. In fact, describing what makes the
caverns so unspeakable might even excite the kender further and make him or her determined to go to the caverns at once.
Kender also resent being given orders; they want to do what they want to do, especially if they have their minds set on doing it. Telling them to do otherwise is worse than useless, as they will complain loudly and disrespectfully, using their taunting skills if they're mad enough.
The intense curiosity that kender feel feeds their desire to know how locks can be opened, how to approach people unseen and listen in on their conversations, and to reach into pockets or pouches to find interesting things to look at. Thieving comes naturally to them — so naturally that they cannot see it as thieving.
Intense curiosity is a trait ingrained in their souls and minds from their racial creation by the Greystone of Gargath. They cannot be other than what they are - natural thieves.
(emphasis mine)
I curse at Dragonlance...I cast disparaging and viciously insulting remarks at the creation of Kender and Gully Dwarves. Seriously, as a player, I never saw anything beneficial for any story where Kender and Gully Dwarves were involved...other than for the same reason Lucas included Jawas and ewoks in Star Wars - for children.
God forbid children should join in anything. D&D can only be played by people over the age of 18.
That said, +1 on gully dwarves. Never turn your back on those guys. They'll geek you in a heartbeat..if they aren't trying to marry you.
BUPU FOREVER!!!!!!
Look, more charming Kender behavior.
Really, change their alignment to "Always CE" or have all the gods sign off on "innocent by reason of insanity" as a legitimate defense.
In neither case would they be tolerated by other societies.
One of the best lines in Roger E. Moore's 1985 Dragon Magazine article about the Kender: Half the population wants to make a gynosphinx their mayor on the grounds that they have never had one before, and the other half has left in search of one.
I'm thinking that this should have spelled the end of Kendermore even before the Dragon.
GYNOSPHYNX: I thank the populace for electing me mayor of Kendermore. I expect to be addressed as 'Ms. Mayor.' My rule will be harsh but fair. Now, in keeping with sphynx tradition, we will begin the day's business with something fun: Riddles!
KENDER: Yay! Goodie! We love riddles!
GYNOSPHYNX: As do I. Now, here is my riddle: Four legged at dawn, two legged by day, three legged at eve--what creature, pray?
KENDER #1: Is it a turtle?
GYNOSPHYNX: No. (Eats Kender.) Who's next?
KENDER #2: Why'd you eat her?
GYNOSPHYNX: Sphynx tradition. You guess wrong, I eat you. You guess right, I commit suicide. That's the way it's done. Now, your answer to my riddle?
KENDER #2: (thinking) It's an end table.
GYNOSPHYNX: Wrong. (Eats Kender.) Next guess?
KENDER #3: That was a good guess! End tables have detachable legs. People are always screwing them off and it takes a while to get them all back. We have supper on three-legged tables all the time.
GYNOSPHYNX: Be that as it may, that is not the traditional answer to my riddle. Your answer?
KENDER: Then if it's not an end table, it's a four-legged troll someone keeps chopping the extra legs off.
GYNOSPHYNX: Inventive, but alas, still wrong. (Eats Kender.) Who's next?
One thing to keep in mind... unlike most kender. Tasslehoff actually IS a thief, class wise. You wouldn't go overboard in reacting to the portrayal of larcenous behavior from a Human or Elven thief, would you?He's got kleptomania, knows what he's doing is wrong, but can't help himself and refuses to get help. Kinda makes you not really care about him taking offense when you call him a thief.
This is Tasslehoff's first appearance in print, for what it's worth.
Yet his actions are what is considered normal for kender. Look at the race write ups. His actions are not only normal, they are as much part of kender as gnomes collecting items are a part of a gnome.
One thing to keep in mind... unlike most kender. Tasslehoff actually IS a thief, class wise. You wouldn't go overboard in reacting to the portrayal of larcenous behavior from a Human or Elven thief, would you?He's got kleptomania, knows what he's doing is wrong, but can't help himself and refuses to get help. Kinda makes you not really care about him taking offense when you call him a thief.
This is Tasslehoff's first appearance in print, for what it's worth.
Is the human or elven thief constantly stealing from me or other members of the party? Are they lying about how they came into possession of my belongings?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Is the human or elven thief constantly stealing from me or other members of the party? Are they lying about how they came into possession of my belongings?One thing to keep in mind... unlike most kender. Tasslehoff actually IS a thief, class wise. You wouldn't go overboard in reacting to the portrayal of larcenous behavior from a Human or Elven thief, would you?He's got kleptomania, knows what he's doing is wrong, but can't help himself and refuses to get help. Kinda makes you not really care about him taking offense when you call him a thief.
This is Tasslehoff's first appearance in print, for what it's worth.
Funny thing is, I had an evil character who had a non-kender thief steal from the party.
Playing a more mastermind type character, I went the following route.So yeah, stealing from the party isn't 'cute' or 'endeering' it's Kender crap that will get you killed, if you're lucky.