I would think you could run a Child of the Light with any non-casting class. Armsman, Ranger, Wanderer... they'd just need a specific role within the organization. Heck, a guy who joined early in life only to touch Saidin as a three year veteran of the Children... that could be a fun character.
Also, how did you run spell-casting classes in the setting, much less in an organization like the Children?
More and more Im liking the idea of treating Channeling like the Dreamscarred Press (or XPH) treatment of psionics. GIve a power point pool based on the channeler's level plus an appropriate channeling stat (Wisdom for women, Charisma for men). That's their "potential" wiht the One Power.
There would still be Affinities and Talents, though I'd suggest they work differently than they do currently. I'd suggest this:
Affinities: A channeler starts with one (based on their gender). Instead of how they currently work in the original WoT game, make them instead make a CHanneler mroe or less efficient with using weaves that rely on that Power. So if a CHanneler uses a weave that contains only Affinities the channeler has in the weave's weave block, then the Channeler can use that weave for one less power point. If the Channeler has one but not all Affinities listed in the weave block, there is no modificiation to the power point cost. And if the Channeler has none of the Affinities listed on the weave, the weave costs an additional power point for the Channeler to use. A Channeler can gain additional affinities through a feat, just like normal.
Talents: A Channeler also starts with a Talent, or a strength with a specific suite of themed powers. We already have the weaves classified, so that's the easy part. Since Talents are thematically spoken about (in the books) like weaves with which the person is particularly strong (i.e. - Nynaeve and Healing, Egwaine and Earth Delving, that one lady from the Circle and Shielding), then this should allow a Channeler to boost their effective channeler level when determining how many power points she can spend on a weave within her Talent -- with the Talent supplying these additional power points.
For example: Eben (such a handsome level 7 wilder), has a talent in Elementalism, and manifests his Sword of Fire (I don't have the book on hand, so I'm making most of these numbers up). Normally, weaving this blade would be limited by his channeler level of 7 when manifesting this weave. He'd only be able to spend a maximum of 7 power points on it, so he boosts the weave to that level, making it function as a 3rd level weave which gives the blade a base damage of 2d8. Aha! But Eben is Talented in Elementalism, which allows his channeler level to be 8 when manifesting his Sword of Flame, so he can manifest it as such, which bumps the possible power points spent on it up to 8 and making the weave a 4th level weave -- which also bumps the blade's base damage up to 3d8. Moreover, since the Talent supplies the power point cost for the additional channeler level of the weave, Eben still only has to pay 7 power points for the blade.
Thoughts?
Is there actually an ongoing web project for this anywhere at this point, or is it just limited to the speculations of this thread? I started looking at this myself the other day, and would be interested in contributing.
Starting with the races, the Ogier, as a large creature with +4 Strength, is going to need a level adjustment, methinks.
For the humans, I'd suggest slapping on a +2 floating stat bonus to all the types, with each region having some sort of unique bonus, but not a primary ability score one.
Thoughts?
Ogier
Humanoid (0 RP)
Large (7 RP): +2 Strength, -2 Dex, -1 AC, -1 Attack, +1 CMD, -4 Stealth.
+2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha (Advanced - 4 RP)
(technically from the advanced points this should be +4 Str, rather than +2 Str & +2 Con, but this shouldn't be considered any *more* powerful, and it makes the final stat adjustment fit the Ogier better. That is, +4 Str, +2 Con, rather than +6 Str)
Final stat adjustment: +4 Str, +2 Con, -4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Stonecutting (1 RP)
Hardy (3 RP) - +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, spells & spell-like abilities.
Fast (1 RP) 40 speed
Reach 10 ft. (1 RP)
Low-Light vision (1 RP)
Gifted Linguist (2 RP) OR Latent Treesinger (2 RP) OR Education (2 RP) - (WoT feat that makes all knowledge skills class skills, and gives +1 on two knowledge skills of choice.) Player would have choice of these three at character creation, to represent the focus of the young ogier's childhood and studies.
Skill Focus (Perception) (2 RP)
Weakness:
Longing (-1RP). [This is a judgment call, but it doesn't seem like *that* huge of a weakness, in game terms, since it only requires them to visit a stedding once a year.]
Skill and Feat Restrictions (-1RP): Ogier may not put points into Ride at character creation, nor may they gain any armor proficiency, or weapon proficiency beyond simple weapons at character creation. These may be gained normally as the ogier levels up [Again, a judgment call, but this isn't that big of a disadvantage, since it is really only in effect the first level]
20 RP : +1 CR
Or the non-adjusted version (though this loses the +2 saves from the sourcebook):
Ogier
Humanoid (0 RP)
Large (7 RP): +2 Strength, -2 Dex, -1 AC, -1 Attack, +1 CMD, -4 Stealth.
+2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Wis (Normal - 0 RP)
Final stat adjustment: +4 Str, -4 Dex, +2 Wis
Stonecutting (1 RP)
Fast (1 RP) 40 speed
Reach 10 ft. (1 RP)
Low-Light vision (1 RP)
Gifted Linguist (2 RP) OR Latent Treesinger (2 RP) OR Education (2 RP) - (WoT feat that makes all knowledge skills class skills, and gives +1 on two knowledge skills of choice.) Player would have choice of these three at character creation, to represent the focus of the young ogier's childhood and studies.
Skill Focus (Perception) (2 RP)
Weakness:
Longing (-1RP). [This is a judgment call, but it doesn't seem like *that* huge of a weakness, in game terms, since it only requires them to visit a stedding once a year.]
Skill and Feat Restrictions (-1RP): Ogier may not put points into Ride at character creation, nor may they gain any armor proficiency, or weapon proficiency beyond simple weapons at character creation. These may be gained normally as the ogier levels up [Again, a judgment call, but this isn't that big of a disadvantage, since it is really only in effect the first level]
13 RP : +0 CR
I liked the idea of warder as a template, too. Maybe something like:
+2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Dex
DR: Gain 1/- for every 4 HD.
Sense Shadowspawn 60' ft.
Connection: sense each others' presence, as the description in the WoTRPG
Aging: As the description in the WoTRPG
Compel to Obey: As the description in the WoTRPG
Resistance: As the description in the WoTRPG
Energy: As the description in the WoTRPG.
Feats: gain the Endurance & Diehard feats. If they already have the endurance feat, they gain the Fast Healer feat. If they already have the diehard feat, they gain the heroic defiance feat.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/endurance---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/diehard---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fast-healer
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/heroic-defiance
Special: Within a range of 300 feet, the bonder gains the advantage of any feats the warder has in the endurance-diehard feat tree.
Definitely would need an EL adjustment, though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's the google docs i've been putting together. Just a heads up, many of the folders/docs are placeholders. But some of them are somewhat fleshed out. Please feel free to give feedback on anything in any of those documents.
I'd love any feedback on waht's actually there.
Eben theQuiet's WoT Pathfinder conversion docs
Note about Algai'd'siswai: I'm currently unhappy with their main combat abilities. Locking them into TWF without a way to boost their attack rolls is giving them an uphill struggle. So I'm looking at a few ways to boost that for them. Probably some kind of Dance the Spears resource mechanic that gives an escalating bonus as well as some barbarian rage power-like selectable set of powers. I just havent' been able to really put any real thought into it yet.
@Rudy: I think many of your thoughts on the Ogier and the Warder Bond are good.
Take a look at what I have on my docs (above), and let me know what you think.
On the Warder, I'm not sure what I think about giving escalating DR. I'd rather just give them more HP.
would we want to try to convert some of the things in the net books?
Which things did you have in mind? Some of that stuff I thought wasn't really worth converting.. other of it is golden, they just need fixed/updated mechanics.
I like the Dae'dora (spelling?) class idea, but to me, that's just an archetype fo the fighter. And honestly, I was never a fan of the Improved WEapon Finesse idea. I understand that the concept is supposed to be about grace, but it's still supposed to be about power. I'd prefer to let the class be about unarmored combat and a hyper-focus around one weapon.
So my initial thoughts on that convrsion is to start with the Weapon Master archetype and take some liberties. One being to remove the ARmor TRaining class feature altogether, and replace it with the Aiel's class defense bonus advancement. Then give them access to Acrobatics and Composure as class skills. Then maybe find a wayto focus on giving them abilities that benefit them building upon a mobile, graceful fighting style. Dodge > Mobility > Spring Attack type options.
What are your thouhgts?
I've been keeping an eye on this one for a year or so. Is this still a work in progress? Also, is there anything I can do to help with it?
i think this could be brought from the dead. ive made some mods to my WOT campaign and would enjoy sharing them.
Just finished the series...
Wow.
i think this could be brought from the dead. ive made some mods to my WOT campaign and would enjoy sharing them.
I would like to hear these changes. Eben did a set of alterations: Eben theQuiet's WoT Pathfinder conversion docs
It's been a while since I looked at them, but from what I remember, most of them looked pretty good. What sort of mods did you do?
|
I have noticed an odd correlation between Channeling and Psionics. I mean look at some of the powers and than some of the weaves. I think many are similar, Plus Psion for Initiate, Wilder for Wilder, and Psyhic Warrior is similar to an Asha'man!
Though you could base Channeling off the Power Point system of casting which makes more sense to me.
I think there was a discussion about using Power Points for the casting. I don't remember what happened with it. I haven't looked into the system much, but I think it was sound. Does it have an overchannel/over-manifest resolution mechanic? I suppose a mostly direct port of the overchannel rules could be used.
When I left off what I was doing, I had actually side-barred the Psionics angle. the theory worked well, actually, and I still have my notes, but a friend of mine tossed up a home-brew idea that I was entertaining.
It was this whole Channel Fatigue system that's intersting, but completely un-tested. So take that with a massive grain of salt.
Eben, is everything in the Google docs work? I'm intrigued and want to see what you together.
Do you mean do the google links work? Or do you mean are they play-tested?
There's only a handful of "completed" first drafts on that google folder. It should be readable to anyone. If you hit a broken link or unfinished page, feel free to shoot me a PM or question.
But I had put those folders up and organized them based on how I intended to put them together.. unfortunately, a lot of it is pretty much empty due to a lack of time to dedicate to the project.
I'll probably get some steam again some time soon (especially given that the last book just came out... that always stirs the creative juices).
Also, if you DO get to playtest some of my stuff, please, please, please let me know how it balances against the other Pathfinder material (as that was the point... well, other than the channelers).
THis is making me want to pick up where I left off.
So one thing that's been bugging me about multiple people's translation of the warder bond weave.
I've seen multiple references/conversions where the bond gives the warder a boost to their Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores (whether i's a flat bonus or an inherent bonus).
I only remember references to them being made tougher by the bond, not stronger/faster. Can someone briefly let me know why those are there?
Id' always interpreted their (non-toughness) physical characteristics to be a reflection of their Tower Warder training... not the bond. Which accounts for why Rand and Birgitte saw no physical boosts (other than a toughness one) when they received their Bond.
Thoughts?
Well, it' a working document. I obviously have my reasons for doing things they way they are, but I'm always open to questions, concerns, or objections. We can hash it out... always want it to be the best it can be.
And good to know about Gareth. I had missed/forgotten that. I guess in the name of authenticity, we should at least be considering those bonuses.
Dang those are some good bennies for one weave. Have to really consider how to balance it.
i think that being bonded to an aes sedai would be enough to keep it balanced, lol
Depends on the character and the Aes Sedai. ;)
@Eben: The warder already has a d12, right? Obviously keep that as it is, but you might be able to award Toughness, Endurance or Die Hard as bonus feat to mimic the added ability to withstand some punishment. Otherwise, do like the Dragon Disciple and just give a +2 bonus to Constitution.
As for the Spear maidens (I'm trying to type this on a tablet and it is murder), you might consider implementing something like the bard archetype Dervish Dancer: enter a rage/dance and gain bonuses while in that state, which is limited to a number of rounds per day. I also like your idea of offering some rage powers to the class. Going back to the dervish dancer, while she dancing, she gains the effects of the rage powers. I don't know what all would be appropriate from the current crop of rage powers, but that can be decide at a later time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wait! The final book is out?...I have to go...
Ar'uum: I found a copy of the setting book (WoTRPG) on half.com for less than $30 a year or two ago. I'm not sure what they run normally, but I find it to be surprisingly good place to pick up physical copies of older/ot-of-print editions. Here is a link to the product page, despite the product picture not being correct. Alternatively, Ebay seems to have better deals on it at the moment: I think I see one for about $25 US.
If I recall, the book does not have a racial listing for Seanchan, but has 4 prestige classes pertaining to channelers: Ashaman, Aes Sedai, Wise Ones and Wind Talker (whatever the boat one is...). These four prestige classes are in addition to Thief Taker, Gleeman, Warder, Wolf Brother, and another 2 or 3. Frankly, the book (at the time) was lacking only a more expansive bestiary to make it an otherwise great stand-alone game. That said, it is time to balance the classes out a bit and bring the game into alignment with the current state of the system at large.
Eben, this is a bit late, but I wonder if this wouldn't be a bad time to consider a "base class" system like d20 Modern. I don't think it would mesh well with the progress you've already made, so it may be better to leave it for a different project.
@Eben: The warder already has a d12, right? Obviously keep that as it is, but you might be able to award Toughness, Endurance or Die Hard as bonus feat to mimic the added ability to withstand some punishment. Otherwise, do like the Dragon Disciple and just give a +2 bonus to Constitution.
I pretty much agree, though i really haven't put many of my thoughts on Prestige Classes on paper yet. What seems to make traditional warders so devastating is SpecOps training on top of the super-human physical robustness they get from the Bond. Given that, getting either a Con bonus (or Toughness) from the Bond and coupling that with the d12 hit die for the Warder prestige class seems appropriate.
As for the Spear maidens (I'm trying to type this on a tablet and it is murder), you might consider implementing something like the bard archetype Dervish Dancer: enter a rage/dance and gain bonuses while in that state, which is limited to a number of rounds per day. I also like your idea of offering some rage powers to the class. Going back to the dervish dancer, while she dancing, she gains the effects of the rage powers. I don't know what all would be appropriate from the current crop of rage powers, but that can be decide at a later time.
Well, the Dance the Spears mechanic already works like a bit of an amped up Flurry of Blows/Rage hybrid. So the Aiel fighters – who i've alway seen as perfecting a fighting style that is based on hitting harder and faster than their wetlander counterparts – already gain more attacks in any given round except for a Two-Weapon Fighter of some sort. All that to say I'd be reluctant to slap on a Maiden archetype that granted them even more attacks.
You do touch on something i'd been putting a lot of thought into, but couldn't' find enough resources to really flesh it out fully. It seems ideal (if really work intensive) to use the Algai'd'siswai base class as the 'chassis' for all spear fighters. Then, if the player wants to, be able to pick a warrior society Archetype. Ideally, this would mean having an archetype for every Society. Maidens might be fairly easy to produce. They seem to be lighter, quicker, and probably stealthier given their usual use as ranging scouts. So I'd consider giving them a few more skill points with a slightly more robust "scouting" class skill list. I'm not sure what I'd want to remove or modify to off-set this, though, as I wouldn't' want to reduce their HD or BAB.
The other problem with this approach (creating an archetype for every Society) is there's just not much information on many Societies. Stone Dogs and Red Shields seem to have some meat to them in the books. But what does a Thunder Walker do? How about a Black Eye? I love the name of the Mountain Dancer, but there is no information backing them up.
Sure, we could make them up, but I hate to do that… though maybe it's unavoidable. At this point, short of Mrs. Jordan agreeing to give creative rights to some other writer or something, I don't see much more "official" information being created or released.
I guess I could be wrong.
I'll start by admitting that I'm at a huge disadvantage here as I've fairly only recently started playing PF, and am a decent % through Towers of Midnight the first time through, and honestly had only HEARD that the WoT RPG existed. What that said... please forgive my spelling as I'm listening to the audiobooks and have only seen the names, etc, a very few times…
Hey, i've actually read all the books (well, just started the last one), and I still don't get al the spellings right.. I can't even imagine trying to get them all right if I'd only heard them spoken. ;)
I'm also assuming you are not talking about my conversion, but with some of the other comments in this thread – possibly from earlier on.
I agree that we can't build an Aes Sedai class based on Nynaeve's strength or the Black Tower class on Rand's capabilities (well, ok, he's not actually a part of the Black Tower).
And yes – ability to Channel being the strongest force in the game aside – people who focus they time learning to channel (by taking class levels in a "channeler" class) will undoubtedly have few HP's and a lower AC than a combat class (Con stacking and taking Toughness aside).
I agree about the VAncian casting system not being appropriate – and am either hoping to adopt the Psionics point-based method or a home-brew system I'm cooking up.
I don't know that I agree with your regenerative-as-a-part-of-the-Ajah-choice thing, though. In my opinion, channeling should obey some fundamental laws. Though I agree that the path you choose to advance your channeling power and skill (whether that's the Blue Ajah, Yellow Ajah, Wise Ones or the Sea Folk) should augment them in some meaningful way.
My idea is this: there is only one "channeling class". When you take your first level in it, you choose a path. Either Path of the Initiate or Path of the Wilder. That gives you some baseline strengths, weaknesses, and class abilities that will always be with you. A person who had to teach themselves to channel at their earliest stages will always be a Wilder, and that character choice will shape how that character can develop. Now, a wilder is just as capable at getting accepted into the White Tower; she will just have that stigma follow her around.
And as to Ajah's, that should be included in her rise through the Aes Sedai Prestige Class.
When you meet the pre-requisites (probably a minimum number of ranks in Use the One Power, Knowledge: The One Power, a minimum Channeler level, as well as "passing the rites of the Rings"), you gain your first level in the Prestige Class. One of the first-level abilities in the Aes Sedai Prestige Class would be "Ajah", in which the player would get to choose which Ajah he/she wanted to join. I'm also considering forcing each Ajah to have it's own secondary pre-requisite (like having a certain number of healing weaves known and the Heal skill ranks for Yellow, for example).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If I recall, the book does not have a racial listing for Seanchan,
Which desperately needs to be remedied, though it brings along its own issues. I mean, I don't even want to begin thinking about what to do if a player asked me to play a Sul'Dam. o.O
Not to mention having a version of the Sanchean Ogier variant… I think they called them Gardeners? Awesomeness!
… but has 4 prestige classes pertaining to channelers: Ashaman, Aes Sedai, Wise Ones…
All three of these need serious work, in my opinion. I'll see if I can put some work in on them (though that will need to wait until i have at least a working Channeling system).
… and Wind Talker (whatever the boat one is...).
I'm picturing a WWII Native American radio operator topless on a Sea Folk ship. :D
These four prestige classes are in addition to Thief Taker, Gleeman, Warder, Wolf Brother, and another 2 or 3. Frankly, the book (at the time) was lacking only a more expansive bestiary to make it an otherwise great stand-alone game. That said, it is time to balance the classes out a bit and bring the game into alignment with the current state of the system at large.
Some of this I agree with. The book definitely lacked a solid bestiary. And with us using Pathfinder as a power baseline, we need to re-kit creatures anyway. (though there are some really good Pathfinder analogs already.. you don't have to work too hard to make bugbear stats work for Trollocs, as far as I can tell.)
I'm generally unhappy with the WoT game Prestige Classes. Gleeman is the closest to working. Thief Taker has some nice stuff, but why the hell does it require you to have an exotic weapon?!
And re-balancing the classes is the meat of what Iv'e been doing. :D
Eben, this is a bit late, but I wonder if this wouldn't be a bad time to consider a "base class" system like d20 Modern. I don't think it would mesh well with the progress you've already made, so it may be better to leave it for a different project.
It definitely doesn't jive with what I've been doing. I'd be curious to see the direction this would take it.
My gut reaction is that the Pathfinder treatment is working pretty well so far. What improvements do you think Modern's approach would make to the conversion over the Pathfinder direction?
Okay, I posted my initial write-up for the Channeler Fatigue system for channeling.
It's in the One Power folder (should be the only doc in there).
Take a look. Let me know if it makes sense, and then let me know if you think it could work. It's something pretty much new (and is unplay-tested), but there are some interesting aspects of it that feel authentic to how channeling works in the books.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, thanks. I guess I could have done that to be helpful.
And again, any and all feedback is welcome. It's not much more than an initial draft at this point.
it definitely sounds doable, eben. Makes for a more interesting progression in channeling ability.
I like the way you address channeler fatigue.
Hmmm...i think this needs some serious playtesting to tweak it.
any takers?
I'd definitely help out, though my posting rate isn't going to be much more than once or twice a day.
Also, let me try to put up the Channeler class to play test. I'll try to have it up tonight or tomorrow.
Initial Channeler write-up is on the google site.
I need to refresh my memory on the power points.
I like how everything looks: especially being able to be part of an order. I noticed you were looking for a skill for the Wind Finders: Perhaps Sleight of Hand to simulate skill at on boats.
Additionally, in the interest of not having a bunch of "dead levels", what about having some ability pop up every few levels: Wind Finders might gain Sea Legs, while Wise Ones gain endure elements for heat.
Finally, like you mention, it would be nice to have a capstone.
Ar'uum and Dorian: What are some big, flashy abilities of the experienced channelers?
Well, I'm less concerned with dead levels for Channeler's for the same reason full pathfinder spell-casters get so many dead levels... they gain new weaves at every level.
As you think about it, be thinking about abilities a channeler would attain/manifest becasue they have become the ultimate channeler... not so much something that is simply lost to history/culture.
What we're looking for is the level 20 "captsone" ability for the Channeler class. It's basically the ability every Channeler woudl get if they attained the absolute highest level of channeling greatness any channeler can attain.
That being said, I'm hesitant for it to be any one weave (or group of weaves).... if for no other reason than a player wouldn't be able to use these weaves until they hit the very end of their game/campaign.
At the same time, this is a brainstorm, and no one should be afraid of coming up with a "bad idea"... bad ideas often turn into great ideas. :)
@ RIZZENMAGNUS: In a discussion thread in one of your games (specically HERE), one of your players references a bunch of sword forms.
Can you direct me to where those are? I had put a ton of working up a system for sword form combat,but didn't realize some rules already existed. I'd love to see what's already out there.
eben, its a netbook called "under the dragons banner". It's a book that was created from various people back between 2001-2003, but hasnt seen much change since. This link Here, is an edited version with hyperlinks, but it is without the sword forms. Not sure why they were edited out, but i have a copy.
This is a copy with the sword forms unedited UtDB. I have it shared out through my google drive for anyone to access.
as for the capstone, adding my 2cp, but i think back to the opening prologue between Ishmael and Lews Therin, when Lews gates away from Ishmael, Lews willingly opens himself up to the power, above and beyond what the body could contain, thus creating dragonmount.
Or that Manetheran queen who destroyed the land from the loss of her country and husband? She willingly opened up to Saidar and flowed untold amounts to destroy the trolloc army.
How bout that being the capstone? something to the effects of a new scale of overchanneling to the Nth degree
This is a copy with the sword forms unedited UtDB. I have it shared out through my google drive for anyone to access.
OOooooohhhh.. I had one, but not this version. Is it cool (no copyright issues) if I download it from that link? I certainly don't want to do anything illegal or put you in a bad place if that's someone else's owned material.
as for the capstone, adding my 2cp, but i think back to the opening prologue between Ishmael and Lews Therin, when Lews gates away from Ishmael, Lews willingly opens himself up to the power, above and beyond what the body could contain, thus creating dragonmount.
Or that Manetheran queen who destroyed the land from the loss of her country and husband? She willingly opened up to Saidar and flowed untold amounts to destroy the trolloc army.
How bout that being the capstone? something to the effects of a new scale of overchanneling to the Nth degree
Ooh, I hadn't considered something like this. It could be called "One with the Force.." er.. i mean "One with the Power".
There's some serious meat to that idea. Let me stew on this, but here are some possible mechanical options:
• channeler who uses this power has a boosted channeler level when creating weaves, then possibly takes an un-healable hp penalty (well, that's only healable through natural healing, anyway)
• channeler ignores channeler fatigue ramifications and temporarily boosts their score in each of their five powers by X while under the effects of this ability; when it ends, they take a heavy channeling fatigue, and are forced to roll on the table for channeling concentration mishaps table (with any results under a certain bar forcing a re-roll) -- basically meaning they are at least stunned by it, at worst stilled or killed.
• other options? How else could that idea be interpreted mechanically?