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well thats what happens when you rebel against an evil character...
It is less of a problem for Elan, because Tarquin has accepted that Elan is of Good Alignment.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:I wonder what Sabine will think, and whether or not Tarquin has thought through the impact on Elan.
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So.
That's... not what I expected.
Well played, Rich. Well played.
Wohooo...
Still, Tarquin didn't know about Malack's death! He isn't all knowing and all predicting after all.
And yeah, everyone were right that Nale won't like this talk...
EDIT: looks like Nale did use up his local supply of competence after all.
WELP.
Yowza! That's quite the development.
-With Nale, Thog, and Z gone, the Linear Guild is out of the picture.
-Sabine is a potential ally (if the Order promises to go after Tarquin once this "gate" thing is taken care of).
-Tarquin is blatantly offering aide in their mission
-Did I miss any major villains?
We are back down to Xykon and Redcloak (and The Monster in the Darkness). It looks like Rich is starting to move this storyline into the final Act.
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If not the final act, into the next one at any rate. When the final gate is destroyed I expect it will lead to a new arc with new villains ... I'm beginning to suspect the Snarl does not truly exist, but is rather a metaphor for the potential conflict that could result from the gates' destruction.
And yeah, that was a bit of a surprise twist.
Definitely need to start both a deathwatch and a body count.
Is Thog dead? I don't actually recall. I know he was really solidly defeated, but that's all I recall.
Anyway, in honesty this make Tarquin both more likable and less at the same time. Wow.
Also, he and Malak are very similar. No wonder they're friends.
I think Thog was chained back up and taken back to Tarquin's prison. He's out of the story (for now at least) because Nale's not going to be there to prompt him into busting out again.
Well, since Roy was dead for a good chunk of the story so far, there's no reason that Nale has to remain dead.
Tarquin strikes me as a very... efficient... person. A dead, villainous son that could be made into some sort of horrible undead under his control? Doesn't sound too strange...
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Tarquin did this very publicly. He made a point of letting the Order of the Stick and a member of his old team (the psion) see it. I suspect he'll have Nale resurrected, but not let anyone know about it. He has successfully proven to Nale that he's completely in charge, while manipulating everyone else into thinking Nale's dead. Very manipulative.
Tarquin did this very publicly. He made a point of letting the Order of the Stick and a member of his old team (the psion) see it. I suspect he'll have Nale resurrected, but not let anyone know about it. He has successfully proven to Nale that he's completely in charge, while manipulating everyone else into thinking Nale's dead. Very manipulative.
Given Tarquin's manipulations, I certainly suspect that this may come up in the long-term.
That being said - and I was also surprised - I am impressed how much Rich has mapped out this arc with both actions and consequences for all involved. That it may be a ramp-up to the next act aside, this storyline has probably been the one most "closed" in nature for a long while in the series.
Tarquin did this very publicly. He made a point of letting the Order of the Stick and a member of his old team (the psion) see it. I suspect he'll have Nale resurrected, but not let anyone know about it. He has successfully proven to Nale that he's completely in charge, while manipulating everyone else into thinking Nale's dead. Very manipulative.
That was my thought, as well. In fact, I suspect that might have been what they were discussing on that 'walk'.
Still, would YOU trust Tarquin's assurances that he'd resurrect you?
I would also concur that as incompetent as Nale sometimes seems to be, this whole scene played out as something planned in advance. With all the work Rich has put into the story, I find it hard to believe that he just had Nale blow a gasket and get killed. It is much more likely that this is part of an attempt to have Nale go under cover.
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I would also concur that as incompetent as Nale sometimes seems to be, this whole scene played out as something planned in advance. With all the work Rich has put into the story, I find it hard to believe that he just had Nale blow a gasket and get killed. It is much more likely that this is part of an attempt to have Nale go under cover.
I don't buy it. Tarquin is that savvy, but Nale is not.
Nale wouldn't go for that kind of subtle plan. Remember he is an egomaniac with delusions of grandeur.
I would also concur that as incompetent as Nale sometimes seems to be, this whole scene played out as something planned in advance. With all the work Rich has put into the story, I find it hard to believe that he just had Nale blow a gasket and get killed. It is much more likely that this is part of an attempt to have Nale go under cover.I don't buy it. Tarquin is that savvy, but Nale is not.
Nale wouldn't go for that kind of subtle plan. Remember he is an egomaniac with delusions of grandeur.
I suppose we'll see. Nale was currently "in extremis" to put it mildly. He and Tarquin also had a long talk that we did not get to see.
I suppose I have to admit that my record in predicting Rich's future plots is somewhat sketchy, with my worst prediction being that V would be back by now.
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I would also concur that as incompetent as Nale sometimes seems to be, this whole scene played out as something planned in advance. With all the work Rich has put into the story, I find it hard to believe that he just had Nale blow a gasket and get killed. It is much more likely that this is part of an attempt to have Nale go under cover.I don't buy it. Tarquin is that savvy, but Nale is not.
Nale wouldn't go for that kind of subtle plan. Remember he is an egomaniac with delusions of grandeur.
This is where I'm at. Nale isn't that good of an actor. We've seen him act before. We've also seen him "blow a gasket" before, to his detriment.
Thus, I could buy this being Tarquin's plan, but I'm pretty sure it's not Nale's.
I'm also fairly certain that Tarquin is running a Xanatos gambit, here.
1) he could resurrect Malak with powerful enough magic (into a living creature), if Malak is willing
-> 1a) Malak may well seek re-vampirism... at Durkon's hands.
-> 1b) Or not. Who knows, really. But in this case, it would hardly make sense for Malak to inherit the empire if he's not eternal any more.
EITHER RESULT: Tarquin gets his friend back.
-> 1c) Malak may choose not to return
-> 1d) Malak may be prevented from returning due to "divine stuff" (like his god saying "no" or something; I don't know)
EITHER RESULT: Tarquin keeps the empire
IN ALL CASES: Tarquin benefits
2) he could resurrect Nale later
-> 2a) Nale could accept (because he learned his lesson)
-> 2b) Nale could refuse (because he's too proud)
EITHER RESULT: Tarquin proves his dominance
IN ALL CASES: Tarquin benefits
3) Either of the above could be enacted by Durkon
-> 3a) Malak, he'd likely do for free, given they're friends
RESULT: Tarquin gains a friend and influence in the Order
-> 3b) Nale would take some convincing, but I suspect Durkon's "practical" enough, now, that it ultimately wouldn't matter too much to him, if given the proper motivation (though I don't know what this would be)
RESULT: Tarquin creates more dramatic tension in the Order
-> 3c) Durkon may choose not to or may be cut out of the resurrection loop entirely
RESULT: the Order doesn't know that everyone is back and thus Tarquin has an advantage on them; however, given how genre savvy some of them are (Elan especially), they may actually figure it out (even if Elan himself does not for some reason... like waiting so he can be surprised later or something)
IN ALL CASES: Tarquin benefits
So, to sum up...
IN ALL CASES: Tarquin benefits
There really is little that could go wrong aside from having to kill his other son, Elan, and the Order... but even then, he could, again, have them raised from the dead later... possibly even by those they trust instead of his own people (such as the Sapphire Guard, by giving them the bodies and some story or another), thus, unbeknownst to them, placing them in his debt anyway. In which case he wins.
And, you know, if he is killed in a dramatic dual with his son... he wins.
About the only way he doesn't win is if... well, no, actually, if the Order is strong enough to take on his entire army and win, than he's created a son - an heir - powerful enough to satisfy him, so, you know, he still wins.
So, in the end... Tarquin really wins here.
EDIT: Relevant.
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Drock also makes some good points that I was trying to but, in retrospect, did not. :)
EDIT: Although, I would say that Tarquin crossed the moral event horizon some time ago, what with the burning the escaped slaves and all to light up Elan's name in the mountain.
I can see another option.
Elan stealing a part of Nale's body (remember they just commented all they'd need is a drop of blood to rez V) and trying to get/getting Nale rezzed on his own.
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First of all, Tarquin is AWESOME!!!! Second, I think Nale is dead. I don't see this as some kind of scheme that he was doing to prove that he's in charge, I think he just flat out killed him. I see it more likely for Tarquin to attempt to raise Malak than for him to do anything with Nale. His son made his decision, obviously not what Tarquin wanted, but he did what Nale wanted and didn't give him any protection. Death does seem like the price for killing not only Tarquin's best friend but also one of the members of the troupe. That's how I see it at least.
While acknowledging my error about V's imminent return, I still think that Rich primarily is creating a dramatic narrative and from that perspective it is hard to believe that Nale is dead forever. His character has been too well developed and the conflict he provides with the OOTS is too rich for me to believe that Rich is just going to dump it all at this stage of the narrative.
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I would also concur that as incompetent as Nale sometimes seems to be, this whole scene played out as something planned in advance. With all the work Rich has put into the story, I find it hard to believe that he just had Nale blow a gasket and get killed. It is much more likely that this is part of an attempt to have Nale go under cover.I don't buy it. Tarquin is that savvy, but Nale is not.
Nale wouldn't go for that kind of subtle plan. Remember he is an egomaniac with delusions of grandeur.
Exactly. I don't think they talked "off screen" on the way to meet the Order. That struck me as a short walk from where they met up.
I'd expect Tarquin to have Nale raised in private later, when nobody knows about it, off screen. And just when we least expect it, Nale will come back, with some story about his father seeing this as a way to teach him a lesson.
And yes, this is Tarquin crossing a line that Elan probably didn't expect him to ever cross, as evil as he already knew Tarquin was. Before this, we'd never expect Tarquin to kill one of his sons, and neither would Elan. This is the setup to prove that when Elan and Tarquin finally fight each other again, it really will be to the death.
And while Elan dying would be an unexpected and interesting twist, the oracle has already told us that Elan will win, and get his happily ever after. Unless the oracle's prophecy was referring to the illusionary happy ending in Girard's pyramid, in which case all bets are off.
And where the hell is V already? (pun intended)
(after reading #913)
I'm glad they had this little talk.
(Since when did I become the Youtube-linky-guy?)
Anyway, what I was trying to say is this: it literally doesn't matter what Tarquin is - or isn't - "planning": at this time everything the Order or anyone else will do about this situation will help him come out "on top", at least relative to his own goals.
Whether or not Nale comes back... it doesn't matter. It's hard to believe, I know, because it will impact the story, but right now, for all intents and purposes, Nale's potential pending future resurrection is irrelevant to the story.
Also, Elan seems both distraught and potentially... angry. I wonder if Elan will a) cross-class into a barbarian, or b) use the Rage spell on himself or c) neither. "C" seems like a decent bet, but "A" would be interesting (taking on a bit of Nale-ishness into himself with the cross-classing, being a darker turn in the story, and also following up on his much earlier desire to cross-class as a wizard), while "B" would simply be showcasing one of the more underused (by Elan*) but potentially potent aspects of Bards (their spells) while still being dramatically appropriate (great rage at what just occurred) and yet also being the "forced" dramatic narrative that Elan generally does his best to create... while still being a genuine emotion.
Alternatively, it simply won't happen. This is, in honesty, the most likely. But it was a - to me - interesting idea that popped into my head while I was ruminating on this.
Also possible: Elan uses crushing despair. Hey! It could happen! (heh)
* Yes, yes, I know Elan uses his spells. Well, the one. To make silent images. On that note, does anyone know if his prestige class allows him to progress in spellcasting or not? I've forgotten by this point.
He also uses healing spells.
He also uses healing spells.
True! I'd forgotten those. :)
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And he has remove poison now.
I can't see Elan getting angry over this. Definitely sad, but not angry. He's always been conflicted in his feelings towards both Nale and his father, wanting to love them as family, yet knowing they're evil. But deep down, he knows that Nale was evil and deserved to die.
He'll mourn and move on, but again, I think it will strengthen his conflict with his father some. Also, knowing that Tarquin really is willing to kill one of his own sons will heighten the tension when Elan and Tarquin do finally fight to the death. It'll end up being just as epic as Tarquin predicted.
And he has remove poison now.
I can't see Elan getting angry over this. Definitely sad, but not angry. He's always been conflicted in his feelings towards both Nale and his father, wanting to love them as family, yet knowing they're evil. But deep down, he knows that Nale was evil and deserved to die.
He'll mourn and move on, but again, I think it will strengthen his conflict with his father some. Also, knowing that Tarquin really is willing to kill one of his own sons will heighten the tension when Elan and Tarquin do finally fight to the death. It'll end up being just as epic as Tarquin predicted.
I more or less agree. It was just a fun thought. :D
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I'm still waiting for Chekhov's army (or Chekhov's psion) to go off and force the Order through the portal. What's the point of surrounding your protagnoists with an army in a crater with a portal to potential doom if you don't force them through the portal?
That said, I am not all that great at predicting Rich's storytelling (and happier for that fact), so I shouldn't even pretend. At this point, I'm just glad that I didn't fire off a b!#!%y response to the poster a few pages back who suggested that Malack ignored the OotS just to make Nale look bad. I assumed Tarquin, Malack, et al were so deep into 11th dimensional chess that every move was being made with a strategic payoff 4-5 steps down the line and that Malack ignoring the Order would be explained that way (e.g., Tarquin & Malack wanted the gate destroyed, which is why Malack ignored the Order - I figured Malack wouldn't let the portal be destroyed just to make Nale look bad). With the latest strip, it sounds like Malack was trying to make Nale look bad to prevent the scenario that Tarquin outlined (Nale succeeds and the other members of Tarquin's group pressure Malack to let the feud go).
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I had assumed Malack let the Order stay hidden out of respect for Durkon's dying wish. He had no quarrel with them, and he didn't know the gate was actually there (he saw through Elan's Silent Image with True Seeing, but that didn't let him see through lead), so fighting them would have served no purpose to him, personally.
Remember, before vamping Durkon, Malack had actually offered to let the Order go out of respect for their friendship. He really was honorable for a vampire. Definitely lawful aligned, which is probably part of why he and Durkon hit it off so well.
Come to think of it, this probably also answers the question of where Durkon gets his cleric powers now. He would be LE now, which is the same as Malack, so he probably gets his power from the same LE god as Malack.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I had assumed Malack let the Order stay hidden out of respect for Durkon's dying wish. He had no quarrel with them, and he didn't know the gate was actually there (he saw through Elan's Silent Image with True Seeing, but that didn't let him see through lead), so fighting them would have served no purpose to him, personally.
Remember, before vamping Durkon, Malack had actually offered to let the Order go out of respect for their friendship. He really was honorable for a vampire. Definitely lawful aligned, which is probably part of why he and Durkon hit it off so well.
Come to think of it, this probably also answers the question of where Durkon gets his cleric powers now. He would be LE now, which is the same as Malack, so he probably gets his power from the same LE god as Malack.
Maybe, but I think Malack's offer of mercy was contingent upon the Order abandoning the search for the Gate, which obviously hadn't happened when he saw them. The fact that he was fine sending the summoned monsters post-explosion also shows that the offer of mercy had a fairly limited shelf life - leaving the Order alone at that point would've been in the spirit of his promise to Durkon and wouldn't even have interefered with Malack's own interests because the gate was already gone.
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Wow, and I thought Malak was cold blooded.
Wow, and I thought Malak was cold blooded.
Clever.
After the latest revelation, something about the whole setup - with the drama and conflict resolution and just general nastiness of it all - has gotten me thinking about the where the story is going and what Rich's intentions are for his audience.
I had considered - as has been mentioned - that this may be a plot by Tarquin as part of his larger plans. And that certainly fits the role that Rich has given him as the Magnificient Bastard style of villain. But we - as an audience and fans of the strip - tend to like those types of characters and their antics. If you read enough of OOTS, there was a time that it was easy to see Xykon and Redcloak as Laughably Evil or maybe Affably EVil. It looked that was getting to be a part of Tarquin's make-up as well.
Until their actions - murder, etc - get ugly and personal. For example, after having read Start of Darkness, I definitely see Xykon and Redcloak as a more serious threat. I think Rich confirmed that in the main strip when Xykon's phylactery got lost and he nearly axed V and O-chul.
Until now, Tarquin's evil has all been circumspect; genre meta referencing; and the occasional grognard joke. Tarquin comes off more "lawful selfish" and than lawful evil I think. Despite what we have been told, Rich has never really shown Tarquin to be "ugly evil" as it were. It's been hinted at by things like:
*Conversations about how evil he is with Elan, but then he turns around and wants to constantly help him out because he's his son.
*There was the incident with the captured slaves being set on fire. Yes it is horrific, but it was wrapped in several jokes and we never really see what was done to the slaves visually.
*His betrayal of an allied city to take it over, but again it was done with minimal violence and comes off more like Tarquin is just taking advantage of the local political scene.
*It seemed like the point was going to be made when he orders the execution of the two bounty hunters, but then it turns into wacky dinosaur fight and the hunters escape.
*That his "wives" only last as long as they are convenient/willing to comply with his plans. Mysterious circumstances is even joked about.
I think this may be the moment for a reminder that Tarquin may seem likeable, but he's still an evil, merciless overlord. By showing him killing a recurring villain and his son, it may be that Rich wants to hammer home just how ruthless and unsympathetic Tarquin can be.
So maybe it is less about the manipulation, and more about just reminding us that Tarquin is a real threat to OOTS, no matter the parental ties.
I'm going to go on record as saying that Nale is dead, and he is going to stay that way, at least for the duration of the main comic storyline. Sure, Tarquin could simply be scheming, and Sabine or even Elan may want to raise him. However, I think this is indicative of a major shift in the tone of the comic. We're progressing towards a conclusion, one in which Nale, as an ultimately small-time villain, has no place.
In the short term, I can't wait to see Sabine's reaction, as she was shown to be watching this. (And that of the fiends as well, as they may have misled her into believing that he was part of their plans.) This may also be where Elan challenges his father early, as foretold by this comic.
I agree that Nale is definitely gone. It may spark some of Sabine's actions later in the story, but I don't think she'll bring him back within the scope of the story.
And I think we are about done with Tarquin in the story. He is perfectly happy having a continent under his boot heel, and the story is about to leave that continent.
And I suspect he is sincere in wanting to help Elan, for perfectly selfish reasons. He doesn't want Xykon to rule the world, including his corner of it.
It feels like this recent series of comics is the wind up of a book, and there will probably be a lull in posting once that book is done as he gets it published and gets out more of the Kickstarter rewards. And then we will either get into the second to last book (if they go to explore the world within the portal) or the last book (if they go to the last gate to deal with it and Xykon.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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It's kind of mind-blowing that that strip was from THREE YEARS AGO. It didn't seem like this "desert empire" story arc had been going on for that long, but that wasn't even the beginning of it. Wow.
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*That his "wives" only last as long as they are convenient/willing to comply with his plans. Mysterious circumstances is even joked about.
You do realize that Tarquin wasn't the one who killed his latest wife under mysterious circumstances, right? It was actually Vaarsuvius. She had black dragon blood from the Girard clan.
But it wouldn't surprise anyone if he was responsible for the deaths of several of his other ex-wives.
While I enjoy the strip immensely, it is still true that the format of the strip tends to generate a bit of narrative schizophrenia as Rich tries to navigate between slapstick humor and compelling drama.
I doubt Nale will remain dead very long. But that's something Rich will decide, not us. Again, many people seem to approach this comic as if it is the result of individual characters pursuing their own agendas, while I still find it to be more of a narrative where characters tend to do what is necessary to advance Rich's overriding plot.
With so many ways to restore a character to life, so many other characters willing and able to do so, and so many narrative opportunities to exploit in Nale's ultimate return, I just can't help but think it's just a matter of time before the goatee is back.
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narrative schizophrenia
So I take it that you don't like "Captain SNES"?
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I have no doubt that Tarquin will retain the ability to raise Nale, setting aside a bit of his body or something similar. But I doubt he'd bring back such a troublemaker without great cause.
Malack spoke to Durkon about how he was biding his time, planning to create an empire of destruction after Tarquin's death. I think Tarquin knew of Malack's plans and manipulated Nale into killing Malack so that all the blame pointed at Nale, then killed Nale to cement the loyalties of Malack's followers. He's now in sole control of the empire, with only the imbecilic Empress to compete with him for power. Note that while Laurin (the psion) is surprised to learn of Malack's death, Tarquin is not.
Tarquin's game goes deeper than we have yet seen.
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Regarding Nale getting resurrected by Tarquin, I very much doubt that Nale would accept that. After all, he wants nothing from his father.
I do hope that this is the leadup to the endgame, by the way. Tarquin and the Empire of Blood can wait for a post OOTS comic series/one shot book, I reckon. Lets get to the OOTS vs Xykon for control of the last gate.
I would rather see Tarquin be handled in an OOTS Season 2 kinda thing.
I do think Tarquin will be dealt with in the ongoing storyline of the comic proper. Hell, maybe even soon. I would think that would be important to Elan's happy ending.
narrative schizophreniaSo I take it that you don't like "Captain SNES"?
Don't know if I like it or not. I only read a few webcomics because I find so many of them so derivative. From the links I've found about the comic it sounds like it might be worth reading, but it also sounds like just another example of the "human sucked into the fictional world" trope that has hundreds, if not thousands, of examples available. Maybe SNES is the ultimate example of the trope and I should abandon reading things like "Erfworld" in favor of SNES, I dunno. I don't have enough time to read a couple dozen webcomics, and I don't have enough interest to keep track of that many, and I have found Theodore Sturgeon's Law to apply particularly well to self-published materials of any sort.
(Heh, I say that as I am working on my final edits for my own self-published fantasy/sci-fi novel...)
I might check it out. It looks like it's been around for over a decade so to do it right I'd have to go back to the start and read all the way to the present, and that might take days that I don't have to invest.