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Human PC (oracle) I was playing decided not to use their feats at first level and left them unassigned so that at 2nd level they could then take weapon specialization (which requires a +1 BAB) and then dazzling display.
I see nothing in RAW that says I can't do that and it doesn't seem overpowered. Still, it's the kind of thing I think some DMs would have a problem with. Opinions?
I'm pretty sure you meant weapon focus on that but anyways. (oops, ninja'd)
While I think you are correct about it not being written directly that feats (or skill points, or HP for that matter) cannot be held over until a later time, the game does state that you take certain steps as you advance in level. Among them (and coincidentally last on the list) is adding new skills and feats (PFRPG 30). As a DM I would unfortunately turn down your request to defer your feat to a later level with the logic that feats are a natural progression of your character's learning and experience, not something you could turn off while you wait for something better to come up.
Perhaps, tho, you could talk your DM into giving you a bonus feat while taking on something of a disadvantage to your character, like a -1 to a saving throw for some role-playing purpose (bad Reflexes or something) which is why your character focused so hard on a specific weapon.
She can´na do it by the RAW, Cap`tain!
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In RAW situations like PFS this is definitely not allowable.
A character of a certain level (say 1st level) has a certain number of Feats.
If you want to break RAW to allow this in you game, I don`t see a problem if all players agree.
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I'm pretty sure you meant weapon focus on that but anyways. (oops, ninja'd)
While I think you are correct about it not being written directly that feats (or skill points, or HP for that matter) cannot be held over until a later time, the game does state that you take certain steps as you advance in level. Among them (and coincidentally last on the list) is adding new skills and feats (PFRPG 30). As a DM I would unfortunately turn down your request to defer your feat to a later level with the logic that feats are a natural progression of your character's learning and experience, not something you could turn off while you wait for something better to come up.
Perhaps, tho, you could talk your DM into giving you a bonus feat while taking on something of a disadvantage to your character, like a -1 to a saving throw for some role-playing purpose (bad Reflexes or something) which is why your character focused so hard on a specific weapon.
I agree. The biggest problems from abuse in games that don't start at 1st level.
I could see house ruling it for this game, since he is going to have to play a "penalty" level, but it sets a bad precedent.
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Agree with the last few posters, particularly that p. 30 forbids it in RAW ("make sure to take the following steps in order"). You've acquired a combination of feats, class and level that would not have been possible by following the rules. It risks abusive situations for prestige classes and feat chains.
Since 3.0, I have allowed periodic 'rebuilds', with GM sanction. The biggy is 'feat replacement', allowing unused feats to be replaced if they have not been used in X many levels. his stems from my own having been shafted by 'dms' warping their games away from a player's particular build, etc. This would include nixing a creation caster's downtime to create items, not allowing languages to be learned in less than a year, crimping a Cleave-path Fighter by only running singleton monsters, etc. That said, I would allow a player to delay a single feat selection, particularly if they were clear on what they wanted to play.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Human PC (oracle) I was playing decided not to use their feats at first level and left them unassigned so that at 2nd level they could then take weapon specialization (which requires a +1 BAB) and then dazzling display.
I see nothing in RAW that
The absence of a rule blocking something doesn't allow it.
Feats must be chosen, for two reasons:
1) The Feat is chosen as part of your leveling up procedure, you can't make it past 1st level without choosing your 1st level feat. You can't even take your level in Oracle without having the feat chosen.
2) You would have a feat (the 1st level one) that doesn't have pre-reqs covered (specifically the +1 BAB requirement) since if you tried to reconstruct your character from level to level, when at 1st level your feat slot would contain an invalid feat (due to having +0 BAB at 1st level while having a +1 BAB requirement.)
Several things:
The feats one gets at first level should represent what the character knows before starting to adventure. Some feats are hard-wired as "first level only" because they represent something inherited or learnt over one's childhood and initial training in their first class. If I (as GM) allow players to select their first-level feat at second level, I'd make sure that said feat isn't restricted to first level first.
As several posters said (or wrote), despite the fact that feats appear instantaneously on the character's sheet, they aren't learnt instantaneously. In my mind, I see them as the conclusion of a characters spending time to train themselves until they finally acquire the mojo necessary to implement said training (read: they gain a level). In all honesty, I can easily envision a player wanting to wait a level before acquiring a feat because their character isn't training as hard as the others.
References have been made about taking disadvantages. Waiting a level with one feat less than others is already a drawback. That said, "disadvantages" like a -1 to Reflexes sounds like a Flaw (UA). And, that said, Flaws have to be taken at first level too...
$0.03
Just say No !!
Just say No !!
Might not be the best solution, as it is the OP's own character, we are talking about...
Just say No !!Might not be the best solution, as it is the OP's own character, we are talking about...
sorry for the life of me just cant remember what " OP's " stands for ??
Interesting question - certainly worthy of clicking the ol' FAQ button!
As a part of the leveling process it says you choose a feat. It does not say you can choose a feat. The devs also answered this one a while back. It has come up before. I am too lazy to search for the post though.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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"Olive Polyester". Or "Original Poster". Or "Operating Procedure". I'm not sure myself.
I agree with several of the posters here, that holding back feat selection until a character qualifies for some feat is against the rules of the game.
In an old campaign, I proposed the following feat:
Effect You may choose another feat once you rise in level.
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Interesting question - certainly worthy of clicking the ol' FAQ button!As a part of the leveling process it says you choose a feat. It does not say you can choose a feat. The devs also answered this one a while back. It has come up before. I am too lazy to search for the post though.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderS ociety/general/archives/pathfinderSocietyRulesV21FAQ&page=3#106
The problem with being able to leave a feat slot open is that it is potentially unbalancing to the game. Many feats are set up so that at the time you can take the feat, it is balanced for it's level. (The +1 BAB requirement, for example. If you are not in a primary-combat class, then being able to take the feat at second level bumps up your overall power level. Forcing you to either be primary-combat, or only get the feat at third level moderates your characters power level.)
I'm not saying that they are in all cases unbalancing, but in many cases they are. In my home game, I've generally had a retraining rule available, but even that rule stipulates that if you retrain a feat, you can only replace it with a feat that would have been legal at that level. Any change to these fixed slots has the potential to unbalance the game. It's hard enough to keep power level creep from destroying any challenge to the players without adding new worries.
"Everyone make 7th level characters"
"Oh, good. I'm taking combat expertise and power attack, and then saving all of my feats until 7th and picking up greater trip, greater bullrush and greater disarm. That's 8 feats out of 9. I'll just save one for later when I want to pick up two types of special criticals."
Makes the game a lot more powergamey to people who want to min/max. So, I'll say no.
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In an old campaign, I proposed the following feat:
Effect You may choose another feat once you rise in level.
I'd propose the following instead:
Effect You may replace this feat with another feat after gaining at least one level. It must be a feat you would have qualified for at the time this feat was taken.
This allows the group to get on with the game even if one of the players is waffling on a feat choice, without giving said player a chance to game the system.
It might be reasonable to delay taking a 1st level feat via a special trait, and I'd borrow your name for that:
(Campaign Trait)
Effect You may delay choosing a feat that would normally be taken during character creation until you reach second level.