Player problem.
So, I decided that loot distribution, expereince distribution, scheduling, etc. would be more efficient for my group if done online. I set up a website for my group of four players.
At the beginning of the last session two players had signed up for the website. At the end of the session I told everybody "I will post XP on the website tomorrow." After I had posted XP I sent everybody a text with instructions on how to sign up for the site. Another player signed up but a week later I am still missing my last player.
It is irritating to me since I spend 10+ hours a week preparing adventures, calculating XP, etc. Not to mention running the session. The website just makes my job easier by allowing me to consolidate information and collaborate with players onlie. I enjoy doing all this stuff, but it is time consuimng, and I dont think 5 minutes of a player's time is too much to ask to make my job a little easier.
My plan is that next session, in about a week, my problem player is going to show up and ask me "How much XP did I get?" (he is due to go up a level). To which I will reply "I don't know, check the website." I think I might just let him play that session at 8th level instead of 9th to get my point across. I mean, it has been a month! Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
At the beginning of the last session two players had signed up for the website. At the end of the session I told everybody "I will post XP on the website tomorrow." After I had posted XP I sent everybody a text with instructions on how to sign up for the site. Another player signed up but a week later I am still missing my last player.
Maybe it's just me, but I know that I'd be less likely to visit a web site that I had to "sign up" for.
Not everyone likes to sign up for websites is my guess.
Easiest solution imo is just to send the stuff you post on the website by email too. Or if just XP, by SMS.
Have you explained your position to your player?
Does that player have access to the Internet. I have one player in my group who doesn't have Internet. It's a pain but I can't expect him to sign up for internet access just so I can email him.
Good points
1) You do need email address to sign up for the site. I recommended players create a POP3 account to avoid spam. After you sign up with the e-mail it never needs to be used again.
2) I dont know the player's email address and have not asked. I have been communicating with players via long tedious text messages. I refuse to make special considerations for this player.
3) He lives in a house with 3 computers. All have access to the internet. Naturally, I would not force him to get e-mail access if this was not the case.
Furthermore, I think that I am just pissed that I am not getting much respect from my players in general. I don't expect them to kiss my ass or anything but I do expect some general courtesy.
For instance, when we play at one of my player's homes I always try to clean up after myself and make a concerted effort to tidy up at the end of the night. When we played at my place the last time they left s##~ all over my house and just walked out at the end of the night. One player had to leave in a hurry so I understand, but honestly, what ever happened to a little common courtesy?
This seems indicative of the player mentality which says, "I just have to show up, and that's it." I see this mentality as antithetical to DnD, and RPGs in general. The very idea of an RPG is an active and collaborative experience. The mentality above is both passive and non-collaborative.
Furthermore, those who cannot have the common decency to respect the effort DMs/Players put into a gaming session, should go play by themselves.
Now perhaps there is a good reason for this player not signing up for the campaign site, though I would place money that it is simple laziness. If indeed it is something meaningful, then he should communicate it with you, and help you work out a solution. If none of that interests him, after you have talked about it, then I suggest showing him the door. Why? Because you are obviously wanting a particular play experience than he wants, and so he should probably find another DM.
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Furthermore, I think that I am just pissed that I am not getting much respect from my players in general. I don't expect them to kiss my ass or anything but I do expect some general courtesy.
For instance, when we play at one of my player's homes I always try to clean up after myself and make a concerted effort to tidy up at the end of the night. When we played at my place the last time they left s%!% all over my house and just walked out at the end of the night. One player had to leave in a hurry so I understand, but honestly, what ever happened to a little common courtesy?
Perhaps all of these little things are leading to you being stressed about the website - kind of a straw that broke the camel's back?
It sounds to me like you should probably take a break from GMing. Let one of the gang do all the work, let him appreciate how awesome it is that one of his players (you) is helpful and supportive, and have a chance to relax, show up on Game Night and have some fun.
This seems indicative of the player mentality which says, "I just have to show up, and that's it." I see this mentality as antithetical to DnD, and RPGs in general. The very idea of an RPG is an active and collaborative experience. The mentality above is both passive and non-collaborative.
Furthermore, those who cannot have the common decency to respect the effort DMs/Players put into a gaming session, should go play by themselves.
Now perhaps there is a good reason for this player not signing up for the campaign site, though I would place money that it is simple laziness. If indeed it is something meaningful, then he should communicate it with you, and help you work out a solution. If none of that interests him, after you have talked about it, then I suggest showing him the door. Why? Because you are obviously wanting a particular play experience than he wants, and so he should probably find another DM.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Naturally I do not expect players to put as much work in as I do but I do expect a few things.
1) Have an up to date character sheet.
2) Have a working knowledge of your skills, feats, spells, abilities, etc. Do not expect me to interpret everything for you.
3) Sign up for my website...it makes my job easier. If I ask you to do some record keeping that takes <5 minutes, please do it.
Now, this player actually does 1 and 2 very well, I'll give him that.
Furthermore, I think that I am just pissed that I am not getting much respect from my players in general. I don't expect them to kiss my ass or anything but I do expect some general courtesy.
For instance, when we play at one of my player's homes I always try to clean up after myself and make a concerted effort to tidy up at the end of the night. When we played at my place the last time they left s%!% all over my house and just walked out at the end of the night. One player had to leave in a hurry so I understand, but honestly, what ever happened to a little common courtesy?
Perhaps all of these little things are leading to you being stressed about the website - kind of a straw that broke the camel's back?
It sounds to me like you should probably take a break from GMing. Let one of the gang do all the work, let him appreciate how awesome it is that one of his players (you) is helpful and supportive, and have a chance to relax, show up on Game Night and have some fun.
Agree with all of the above. Especially taking a break...I have earned it. The current campaign is about 4-6 sessions from completeion. When it is over, ironically enough, the problem player has agreed to run the next one, lol. Maybe he will get a taste of his own medicine.
I had a very similar experience with a game I recently ran.
I wasn't able to solve the problem sadly. Some players simply aren't
interested in participating in the game after they leave the table.I know its probably harsh but I think your idea of letting them sit @ 8th level until they decide to use the website is the rigth one. If you don't make it mechanically relavent he or she won't care if they don't already.
I'm sure peeople will call you a control freak or something along those lines but you have to do what works for your table. If the lack of participation is irritating you its going to affect the atmosphere at the table and make things worse for everyone.
Sorry your situation did not work out. This guy has been my friend for years so I dont plan on throwing out a friendship for a measely D&D game. I think that instead of forcing him to play at 8th level I will simply give him enough XP to advance to 9th and dock him whatever XP he earned beyond that. That way it looks like the problem is less of a punishment and more of a record-keeping issue, which it kind of is.
Yeah, they already call me a control freak. I think that if you are not a little heavy handed as a GM that players can get out of control. For instance last session we had a new PC show up who wanted to include some obscure 3.5 rule in character creation that would let him use skill points to do things like run up walls and stuff. I just said "that sounds more like something you would take a feat to do." He got a little upset but I stood firm. Unfortunately, if you are too nice people will take you to the cleaners.
I have to admit that I dislike having to keep track of XP; I'd much prefer the GM to just tell me when I go up a level. Putting the XP on a web site instead of just saying "you're now level 9" seems like an extra, unnecessary step.
As far as loot distribution goes, I'm not sure why the GM needs to get involved at all. If the player doesn't care about his share of the loot, then why should you? :-)
I have to admit that I dislike having to keep track of XP; I'd much prefer the GM to just tell me when I go up a level. Putting the XP on a web site instead of just saying "you're now level 9" seems like an extra, unnecessary step.
As far as loot distribution goes, I'm not sure why the GM needs to get involved at all. If the player doesn't care about his share of the loot, then why should you? :-)
In the situation you describe then I am simply doing all of the work and the player is just "showing up," as Elorebaen pointed out. Loot tracking is in fact even more important than XP tracking. I do not know how much loot a PC has on his sheet at any given time so they could be well above or below the recommended loot for their level. It is in a player's best interest to keep me abreast of the loot that they have, via the site, so that I can award them the appropriate amount of loot. I only ask them to list items that are worth 1000+ GP, and if I do not know how much loot a player has I am more inclined to be conservative when I distribute loot.
Been in the same boat. Last time I ran Shackled City, me and one of the players put a lot of work into making a campaign website (using Google Groups or whatever it is called). We'd asked the others if they thought it was a good idea, and everybody said something like "yeah, sounds good". Two of the other players checked occasionally, but it would often take them long to respond to messages about planning next session or similar. The last player never came on. He didn't upload his character, he never posted, and when asked about it, he said "I don't like Google..."
The campaign is now dead, not just because of this, but because of the underlying problem...not everyone wants to put "enough" time into it.
That is a b~!$+! Fortunately, I dont think it will get to this point, but I completely understand where you are coming from.
I think that I will solve this problem by giving more goodies to the players that put the work in and give less loot, XP, etc. to players who dont "show up." Next session the three players who signed up might find themselves holding wicked magic items while the problem PC will have to make due with his sack of copper. This is not just for passive aggressive reasons (though it is that too ;)). I can't distribute loot to a player if I dont know how much he already has can I?
Did everyone agree to use the website before you went ahead and created it / start using it?
I would suggest asking teh player why he isn't using the site and see if he has genuine reasons why he hasn't?
In all fairness I did not ask first.
I cannot concieve of a good reason that the player is not using the site. If he waits much longer I might ask.
In the situation you describe then I am simply doing all of the work and the player is just "showing up," as Elorebaen pointed out. Loot tracking is in fact even more important than XP tracking. I do not know how much loot a PC has on his sheet at any given time so they could be well above or below the recommended loot for their level. It is in a player's best interest to keep me abreast of the loot that they have, via the site, so that I can award them the appropriate amount of loot. I only ask them to list items that are worth 1000+ GP, and if I do not know how much loot a player has I am more inclined to be conservative when I distribute loot.I have to admit that I dislike having to keep track of XP; I'd much prefer the GM to just tell me when I go up a level. Putting the XP on a web site instead of just saying "you're now level 9" seems like an extra, unnecessary step.
As far as loot distribution goes, I'm not sure why the GM needs to get involved at all. If the player doesn't care about his share of the loot, then why should you? :-)
Don't get me wrong -- I think it's totally unfair for you to do all this work and for the player in question to do nothing. But I suspect there's no combination of sticks, carrots or applied psychology that will get this player interested in XP or GP beyond the level of "do I go up a level yet?" and "can I afford to buy this item?"
If I were in your shoes and were looking to work less, I'd try one of the following:
- Get one of the players to be the official XP/GP tracker, and give him the responsibility of notifying the others, or
- Simplify the XP/GP distribution to the point where it's easy for everyone to track (e.g. the Pathfinder Society has a simple "3 XP per level" system and they just give out a pre-calculated amount of gold at the end of each adventure).
Good luck with whatever solution you settle on, though!
Does it mean I'm turning into a grognard if the word 'loot' grates on me?
It's treasure, dagnabbit!
[Shuffles off, looking for slippers]
Loot just rolls off the tongue so well. I have been playing P&P RPGs for well over 15 years and I prefer "loot."
If I were in your shoes and were looking to work less, I'd try one of the following:
- Get one of the players to be the official XP/GP tracker, and give him the responsibility of notifying the others, or
- Simplify the XP/GP distribution to the point where it's easy for everyone to track (e.g. the Pathfinder Society has a simple "3 XP per level" system and they just give out a pre-calculated amount of gold at the end of each adventure).
Good luck with whatever solution you settle on, though!
Thanks for the input. The problem that I see with this, however, is that I do not want to reward a bad player by exempting him from work simply because he is lazy and penalize a good player by forcing him to keep track of another player's stuff. That just does not seem fair.
I think that sometimes people need to learn things the hard way. For instance, I had one player who had trouble with rule #2. He would create complex characters with my help and then not bother to learn his skills and abilities. When he would stop the game session to look up a spell for 5 minutes I would just "delay," him until he figured out what he was doing. This resulted in him missing turns and being less effective in combat. Consequently he started to pay more attention and learned to play his character.
We are not playing the kind of campiagn where standardized loot/xp would be appropriate. Some sessions have little to no combat, others are long grinding dungeon crawls. I also put a ton of work into creating interesting loot. For instance instead of saying "you find a platinum ring," I will say "You find a man's platinum ring set with an emerald (it looks kind of like a world-series ring). On one side just below the stone there is a carving of a ship at sea, on the other side there is an engraving of a bustling port city (make a knowledge history or geography check). The city is Nassus in the country of Melisus." My players seem to appreciate tje verisimilitude and level of detail.
No offense meant, but why couldn't you just send an e-mail adressed to all players after each session with the relevant xp information?
I keep a word file with all the relevant information from each session (loot, xp, current player hp, diseases etc...) that I just copy and paste to an e-mail the day after the session.
My point being... while you find the website and all the work on it entertaining, your players might not.
No offense meant, but why couldn't you just send an e-mail adressed to all players after each session with the relevant xp information?I keep a word file with all the relevant information from each session (loot, xp, current player hp, diseases etc...) that I just copy and paste to an e-mail the day after the session.
My point being... while you find the website and all the work on it entertaining, your players might not.
Well, a few reasons. First, The website has buit in functionality for tracking XP and magic items. If I want to send emails to each person then I have to calculate and record all of this on my own. Also, email only goes one way (in that you are either sending or recieving a message). It is not very conducive to collaboration.
Second, 75% of my players are already on board. It would be unfair to them if I just up and said, "we're doing it different now because Jerry doesn't like the website!" Also I am not going to make a special exception for one PC's tastes (if that is indeed the reason that he does not use the site) he will just suffer the consequences i.e. no xp and no loot.
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I have used web sites before. Typically for a variety of reasons. I have yet to do the XP that way. But if I did, then I would make sure the players know it and if they don't go check the web site to update their XP, then that's on them. Personally I am of the opinion if a player can't put in a hour or two a week of "work" to help the game run when the GM puts in tons more. Then it is on them and if they don't get the benefit the other PC's are getting that's on them.
I personally don't put up with selfish behavior from players. Aka make a acceptation for me. For me a example was we decided to do down time between games by email. To speed the game up, so I didn't run a bunch of one and one stuff at the game. Forcing the rest of the group to sit around bored. All but one player emailed me with stuff they wanted to do. We resolved it by email or chat based RP for the one on one stuff.
At the next game the one player that didn't bother to send a email wanted to do a bunch of stuff solo in town. I ended up telling him no, cause I wasn't going to punish the other players and make them sit there while he got special treatment and dominated a big chunk of the game time. I told him next time they went to town he could do it then. The rest of the group was wanting to IC leave and head back out so the group did. Said player did eventually leave the group.
In your case what I would do is go ahead and this time award the PC the XP but make it clear to the player that next time you expect them to do the work themselves and if they can't that you won't be giving them the xp at the game.
Furthermore, while the site can be used for journal entries, wiki's and the like I do not expect players to use these functions if they do not feel like it. I am not asking them to write bio's or post journal entries or help me flesh out the campaign world. If they want to do this stuff, great! Some players do, some dont. The site is mainly a place to post XP and distribute loot. It LITERALLY takes less than 5 minutes to sign up. If a player is not willing to give me 5 minutes then I sure as hell am not willing to spend 10 hours planning an adventure for him. That simple.
I have used web sites before. Typically for a variety of reasons. I have yet to do the XP that way. But if I did, then I would make sure the players know it and if they don't go check the web site to update their XP, then that's on them. Personally I am of the opinion if a player can't put in a hour or two a week of "work" to help the game run when the GM puts in tons more. Then it is on them and if they don't get the benefit the other PC's are getting that's on them.
I personally don't put up with selfish behavior from players. Aka make a acceptation for me. For me a example was we decided to do down time between games by email. To speed the game up, so I didn't run a bunch of one and one stuff at the game. Forcing the rest of the group to sit around bored. All but one player emailed me with stuff they wanted to do. We resolved it by email or chat based RP for the one on one stuff.
At the next game the one player that didn't bother to send a email wanted to do a bunch of stuff solo in town. I ended up telling him no, cause I wasn't going to punish the other players and make them sit there while he got special treatment and dominated a big chunk of the game time. I told him next time they went to town he could do it then. The rest of the group was wanting to IC leave and head back out so the group did. Said player did eventually leave the group.
In your case what I would do is go ahead and this time award the PC the XP but make it clear to the player that next time you expect them to do the work themselves and if they can't that you won't be giving them the xp at the game.
You go girl!
I am not even asking for 1+ hrs a week. More like 30 minutes every two weeks. Can a brotha get a little commitment?
You've got another problem.
This player doesn't know how much XP he's got, so he doesn't know what level he is (or isn't), so he can't have a properly leveled character sheet ready for next session.
I cannot concieve of a good reason that the player is not using the site. If he waits much longer I might ask.
Don't wait and don't stew in your own juice over it (which is pretty much what you're doing). Ask now.
I can think of a reason or two he might not want to log on to a website to deal with XP awards and treasure division.
Furthermore, I think that I am just pissed that I am not getting much respect from my players in general. I don't expect them to kiss my ass or anything but I do expect some general courtesy.
For instance, when we play at one of my player's homes I always try to clean up after myself and make a concerted effort to tidy up at the end of the night. When we played at my place the last time they left s#!# all over my house and just walked out at the end of the night. One player had to leave in a hurry so I understand, but honestly, what ever happened to a little common courtesy?
I'm not in the player's shoes and it seems that you already have other issues with him already. But just to offer a different perspective, it would annoy me if I had to go check things out on a website before showing-up in person. Different generation perhaps?
As the DM, you have "homeworks" to do, but players shouldn't have any unless it has been implicitly explained before the campaign started. Some players are more eager than others, some have other things to do, responsibilities to fulfill etc.
One of my group was really eager to do "homeworks", follow downtime via e-mails etc. My most recent group is not as willing/available to to so and I can't begrudge them for that. I know that they appreciate the game just as much as my previous group and we have a lot of fun. Implication outside the game =/= appreciation of the game.
I don't think its fair of you to get pissed at your player(s) for THAT reason. There may be others perfectly valid reasons for you to be mad at him(them), but this one appears to be a "last drop" as somebody already mentioned.
'findel
You've got another problem.
This player doesn't know how much XP he's got, so he doesn't know what level he is (or isn't), so he can't have a properly leveled character sheet ready for next session.
Bingo!
While I respect the opinions above, it is my understanding that different people come play this game for different reasons.
Personally I don't have a problem with that. Some players will like the game more than others (and because of that will want to be more involved with it than others). From this follows that some at the table will not like the idea of "homework".
In my opinion that's fine. While everyone should be encourage to participate, I don't agree with the idea of "forcing" participation.
Again nothing personal. We just probably roll differently.
I'm not in the player's shoes and it seems that you already have other issues with him already. But just to offer a different perspective, it would annoy me if I had to go check things out on a website before showing-up in person. Different generation perhaps?
I guess I see where you are coming from and I would agree if the player was writing with quill pens and doing his taxes with an abacus. Dude knows what the internet is and has access to 3 computers!?! He is not the most tech savvy guy at the gaming table but he is certainly capable of signing up for a website.
As the DM, you have "homeworks" to do, but players shouldn't have any unless it has been implicitly explained before the campaign started. Some players are more eager than others, some have other things to do, responsibilities to fulfill etc.
I enthusiastically disagree! While I accept the fact that I will do 95% of the work I demand that my players put in their 5%. I am not asking anyone to do anything unreasonable. I would be pissed at me if I demanded a 4 page character backstory or a detailed list of gear down to the color of their socks. The reality is that I am just asking people to sign up for a website. After they sign up they have to do very little. Check your XP, upload the names of your magic items. That's it. After that I take over! You just have to bookmark the site and check it every two weeks. If that is too much to ask then I dont want you in my game. period!
I cannot concieve of a good reason that the player is not using the site. If he waits much longer I might ask.Don't wait and don't stew in your own juice over it (which is pretty much what you're doing). Ask now.
Yeah, this is not far off. I am holding back because I want to give the player the benefit of the doubt. If he waits until the day before the session to sign up so he can check his XP and update his character then we dont have problems. But yeah, I am pretty pissed and in need of a good vent. Thanks for listening.
My plan is that next session, in about a week, my problem player is going to show up and ask me "How much XP did I get?" (he is due to go up a level). To which I will reply "I don't know, check the website." I think I might just let him play that session at 8th level instead of 9th to get my point across. I mean, it has been a month! Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!
I would do exactly that. It has nothing to do with being a nice guy or a control freak. It makes things smoother and allows you to focus more time elsewhere in the game. A week’s time to get online and get your XP and loot is plenty. I would say do it via mass emails, that tends to be how my group operates, but you stated you don’t have some of their email addresses. Texting is a very sub-par method of exchanging this type of information, sure if you're the player it's not so bad, you only have to put up with it long enough to get your own info, but the DM has to put up with everyone texting him. I wouldn't.
I would say: "I have built a website for you to get your information on. You all have internet access so there will be no special exceptions. I will work out the information and post it, at that point my obligation as DM has ended and your obligation as a player begins. If you can't take the time to log in and get your information, your character will not progress." If anyone complains about the time it takes to log on I would tell them it wastes less time than typing out a dozen text messages. I would allow exceptions for temporary internet problems but that's about it, the solution for those problems would be call me or get the info from another player who can access the website. Unless someone stops paying their internet bill this shouldn't be an issue.
Mutual respect is paramount in this type of cooperative game. You have to respect them as players and they have to respect you as the DM. I don't think there is anything disrespectful about what I said above, maybe just my interpretation. I do think there is a level of disrespect in knowing that the work has already been done for you and posted online for you, then ignoring that fact for a week and coming into the next game asking for XP and loot. He is disrespecting the work of his DM and disrespecting work the other players have put into preparing for the next game. He is showing up unprepared and cutting into game time to "update" his character, something which should have been done before the game, and could have been done easily if he had taken the time. I would definitely not let him hold up my game or ignore the work put into the website out of simple laziness. If he didn't show up prepared he would play with his character as is "level 8." If you do decide to let him level up at the next session, I would make him do it at another table, so he doesn't interrupt the players who actually showed up ready to play. And I would start the game without him. When he is ready, I would introduce him back in at the first available, and sensible, point.
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As for the cooperative clean up at the end of the game. If anyone came into my house for the game and didn’t clean up it would only happen once. The next time it happened I would point it out to him and if he still didn’t want to clean up his own mess he would not be invited to games taking place at my house past that point.
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Some here will probably call me a control freak too, or say I am the type of tyrant DM they would never play for. But this is how I run my games and I have acted this way to plenty of friends; they are still my friends and years later still tell me how much they loved the game I ran. It shouldn’t ruin any friendships, what it should do is let everyone involved know what is, and is not, acceptable behavior at the game table. I give my players respect and I put a lot of work into my games, so I demand a certain level of respect from my players. At the end of the game I don’t want to be stuck cleaning my whole house by myself. If I send out emails with everyone’s XP I then throw away my notes. If they have questions about the XP I will direct them to their inbox.
While I respect the opinions above, it is my understanding that different people come play this game for different reasons.
Personally I don't have a problem with that. Some players will like the game more than others (and because of that will want to be more involved with it than others). From this follows that some at the table will not like the idea of "homework".
In my opinion that's fine. While everyone should be encourage to participate, I don't agree with the idea of "forcing" participation.
Again nothing personal. We just probably roll differently.
You're right about a lot. I would not be too happy if my GM forced me to do a s@$~-ton of work in between sessions, however, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask someone to do the minimum amount of work to keep the lights on.
Seriously, would you tolerate a player showing up at your table who does not know what his spells and abilities do and expects you to take valuable game time to explain things to him when all of this information exists, for free on the internet? I think not. You might as well ask me to hold your dick while you pee.
As I have stated before, the site is mainly for my benefit. It gives me a place to record and track important stuff in one place instead of fumbling around with excel spreadsheets, word docs, pdfs, and hastily scribbled notes on napkins. I am asking a courtesy from my players. Most of them got with the program. One of them is being lazy at best obstinate at worst.
Y'know I get where you're coming from, at the same time I think you kind of have to pick your fights. If you guys get together face-to-face, every week, then I think it's not too inconveniencing for you to simply update the guy in person. If that's all he wants, I don't think it's asking too much.
Not everyone is jacked in to the web, and with a pen-and-paper game, do they really have to be?
I would do exactly that....
As always your wizdom and candor are much appreciated. (Phazzle bows graciously)
Different generation perhaps?I guess I see where you are coming from and I would agree if the player was writing with quill pens and doing his taxes with an abacus. Dude knows what the internet is and has access to 3 computers!?! He is not the most tech savvy guy at the gaming table but he is certainly capable of signing up for a website.
I too know teh internet and I have access to several computers at work and at home. But that's not the point.
I enthusiastically disagree!
As the DM, you have "homeworks" to do, but players shouldn't have any unless it has been implicitly explained before the campaign started. Some players are more eager than others, some have other things to do, responsibilities to fulfill etc.
I see that! But in all respect to you, perhaps that's not how HE sees it and frankly, he wouldn't be wrong. You are not wrong either, that's not what I'm aiming at. You may just not be compatible as player/DM, that's all.
(...) If that is too much to ask then I dont want you in my game. period!
I don't think that's too much to ask. We all have to update our characters somehow, but not everyone is ready to do it outside of game time for XYZ reasons. There are ways around that. Have the player show early to do that kind of things. Have a 30 min period before each session to update characters and discuss about other issues of the game (it seems this is only one of many).
Personally I don't have a problem with that. Some players will like the game more than others (and because of that will want to be more involved with it than others). From this follows that some at the table will not like the idea of "homework".
In my opinion that's fine. While everyone should be encourage to participate, I don't agree with the idea of "forcing" participation.
As the DM, you have "homeworks" to do, but players shouldn't have any unless it has been implicitly explained before the campaign started. Some players are more eager than others, some have other things to do, responsibilities to fulfill etc.
Making sure "YOUR OWN" character is ready for the game is not the DM's responsibility, it is the player's. If a player isn't interested enough in the game to keep their character updated they should be playing something else. But tied in with the general lack of willingness to clean up after themselves I would say it’s probably not a lack of interest but rather a lack of respect and a problem with laziness.
We all have to update our characters somehow, but not everyone is ready to do it outside of game time for XYZ reasons. There are ways around that. Have the player show early to do that kind of things. Have a 30 min period before each session to update characters and discuss about other issues of the game (it seems this is only one of many).
This makes no sense. You're saying not everyone wants to update their character outside game time, so we will just extend game time. Or, why not just take that time, that they are going to spend either way, and update the characters "before" they come to the game? Either way you have to take time to do it, why can't you do it at home before the game and not waste everyone else's time? Also, character updates around a table generally take more than 30 minutes if one or more players are leveling up. Unless the Player has already mapped out an exact path for the Character, but judging by other behaviors I would say that is unlikely.
While I respect the opinions above, it is my understanding that different people come play this game for different reasons.
Personally I don't have a problem with that. Some players will like the game more than others (and because of that will want to be more involved with it than others). From this follows that some at the table will not like the idea of "homework".
In my opinion that's fine. While everyone should be encourage to participate, I don't agree with the idea of "forcing" participation.
Again nothing personal. We just probably roll differently.
You're right about a lot. I would not be too happy if my GM forced me to do a s%@@-ton of work in between sessions, however, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask someone to do the minimum amount of work to keep the lights on.
Seriously, would you tolerate a player showing up at your table who does not know what his spells and abilities do and expects you to take valuable game time to explain things to him when all of this information exists, for free on the internet? I think not. You might as well ask me to hold your dick while you pee.
As I have stated before, the site is mainly for my benefit. It gives me a place to record and track important stuff in one place instead of fumbling around with excel spreadsheets, word docs, pdfs, and hastily scribbled notes on napkins. I am asking a courtesy from my players. Most of them got with the program. One of them is being lazy at best obstinate at worst.
Honestly, I would not have a problem with a player that arrived in one of my sessions not knowing what his spells/abilities do, as long as he was trying to learn (new to the game and etc).
Assuming after a few sessions he would get the hang of it, I would have no problem with this. Fortunately that's not the case in my group. All participating have been playing with me since childhood. Maybe I'm blessed and I don't know.
Anyway,
I would probably suggest for you to just call the "problematic player" and ask him if he could do the courtesy of signing up and following the website, since that would make your life much simpler.
Also...
I'm writing specifically about the web site issue. The laziness in helping cleaning up, to me is unacceptable.
I am asking a courtesy from my players. Most of them got with the program. One of them is being lazy at best obstinate at worst.
I'd rather say that "One of them is being lazy at worst and incompatible with your GMing at best"
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Frankly, I see things much clearer from the player's POV than yours. You're asking him to sign up for some website (which inevitably leads to a barrage of spam) and check it every week because you won't give him a single number any other way. You say that the website does all this other stuff, but you haven't told what any of that is. So I'm forced to assume that in the end, the only thing that the player needs is the XP amount.
My solution: Do the website thing like you have been doing. When you get done with whatever calculations, take the 5 seconds to shoot off an email to the player telling him what his XP is.
Honestly, I would not have a problem with a player that arrived in one of my sessions not knowing what his spells/abilities do, as long as they were trying to learn (new to the game and etc).
I agree to a point. Just for the record my players do not have a problem with spells, abilities, etc. At least not anymore.
If I am teaching a new player then naturally this is a whole different story. My 13 year-old stepsister is interested in learning D&D (her father currently plays in my campaign). If I ever ran a game for her I would not expect her to know her abilities inside and out. That would be nuts. I know when to put the kid gloves on.
Making sure "YOUR OWN" character is ready for the game is not the DM's responsibility, it is the player's. If a player isn't interested enough in the game to keep their character updated they should be playing something else.
A DM's responsibility is that, as the captain of his ship, he makes sure that his players enjoy the game. If he can't do that without enjoying the game himself, he's got the wrong group.
This is all part of the discussions/verbal contract that gaming groups usually skip.
But tied in with the general lack of willingness to clean up after themselves I would say it’s probably not a lack of interest but rather a lack of respect and a problem with laziness.
That's a much more serious issue IMO that the OP needs to address ASAP!
Seriously, would you tolerate a player showing up at your table who does not know what his spells and abilities do and expects you to take valuable game time to explain things to him when all of this information exists, for free on the internet? I think not.
Agreed. I would have very little tolerance with that after the first two or three times. But I wouldn't hold my hopes out that anything would change at that point; I'd either encourage him to find a new game or I'd just learn to live with it (depending on how disruptive it was).
A DM's responsibility is that, as the captain of his ship, he makes sure that his players enjoy the game.
Except that the captain's job wasn't to make sure his crew was having a good time. It was to ensure order and survival. If a crew member wasn't doing his job he was punished or put off the crew.
A DM's responsibility is that, as the captain of his ship, he makes sure that his players enjoy the game.Except that the captain's job wasn't to make sure his crew was having a good time. It was to ensure order and survival. If a crew member wasn't doing his job he was punished or put off the crew.
Of course :) it was only an allegory... (besides you had addressed the responsibility of the player, not of the DM)
AFAIC, a player's responsibilities are to 1) respect fellow players (including GM) and 2) be there for the game during the game.
I can see that for different people, "being there for the game" can take more or less dedication and I don't see anyone being *wrong* about it.
Like in all social groups, individuals with similar interests will hold together more successfully...
I have a similar problem at my table. We use a Yahoo! group website, nothing fancy, but I give game notes, behind-the-scenes information, and will also be awarding XP and treasure via post between game sessions. Players are also required to give a copy of their character sheets and keep an updated version in the group's file section for reference and bookkeeping. I also encourage character background and player discussion and dialog via post.
We only play once every two weeks so they have two weeks between sessions to check in and update their stuff n' get what they need. Plus because of the more limited play schedule than some groups, I don't want to bog down our precious game time with the trivial stuff like XP, character advancement, and out-of-character tasks like mundane shopping. So there's a valid reason to do this. The problem is that one of the players just refuses to comply. She's not incompetent or ignorant, just always has an excuse. "My son was a handful, my classes took too much time, my computer's been acting up, etc." I accept an incident or two -- Hey, life happens -- but this constant deluge of excuses just grates on my last nerve. So last session before starting I walked around the table and handed out some cards I'd made out. Each one was good for one d20 do-over or reroll, usable sometime in game over the next six sessions. They were handed out as appreciation for the group participation to make my job easier... the person who didn't contribute didn't get one.
I don't view this as a punishment, as I am not a vindictive person. Rather this is a reward for those who DID participate. I plan on doing other little boosts like that from time to time... +2 permanent hit points, a free potion found at the bottom of your pack, +5% XP earned in a session, an extra spell in your spellbook/repertoire, etc. This encourages participation rather than punishing those who choose not to go the extra mile.
As for help with clean up, that's easy... I usually wrap up each session with similar dialog: "Okay, while I calculate the XP, can you wipe off the battlemaps for me, C.J.? Rob, the vacuum's in the closet, and Gale would you mind putting those coke cans n' plates in the sink for me? Thanks guys, I'll have your XP totals worked out in a few minutes..." It really has never been a problem and everyone seems completely fine with helping out. When I put it that way, they see that I am doing something for them and they seem to have no resistance to helping me out a little in return.