Druid/Monk: What Monkish things can you do in Animal form...
I thought you could change into a bear and use your Unarmed Striking capabilities but someone on the board pointed out that animals arnt allowed to do such attacks or sum such. I am not sure the wording, anyhow, what could a Monk do in wild shape form ?
Obviously the Druid Monk is Lawful Neutral :)
Druid/Monk: What Monkish things can you do in Animal form...
I thought you could change into a bear and use your Unarmed Striking capabilities but someone on the board pointed out that animals arnt allowed to do such attacks or sum such. I am not sure the wording, anyhow, what could a Monk do in wild shape form ?
Obviously the Druid Monk is Lawful Neutral :)
Ape.
'nuff said.
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Druid/Monk: What Monkish things can you do in Animal form...
I thought you could change into a bear and use your Unarmed Striking capabilities but someone on the board pointed out that animals arnt allowed to do such attacks or sum such. I am not sure the wording, anyhow, what could a Monk do in wild shape form ?
Obviously the Druid Monk is Lawful Neutral :)
Ape.
'nuff said.
I refuse to believe that an ape can use kung-fu but a bear cannot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2u-CkUSyOI
Druid/Monk: What Monkish things can you do in Animal form...
I thought you could change into a bear and use your Unarmed Striking capabilities but someone on the board pointed out that animals arnt allowed to do such attacks or sum such. I am not sure the wording, anyhow, what could a Monk do in wild shape form ?
Obviously the Druid Monk is Lawful Neutral :)
Ape.
'nuff said.I refuse to believe that an ape can use kung-fu but a bear cannot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2u-CkUSyOI
I've never seen this before, I was stunned!
OK that was awesome...
I showed that one to Sifu and he loved it, said the bear was better than some people he knew :)
that was awesome! just think what he could do with nunchucks...
Shurikens, Shurikens! Give him shurikens! OR OR sai!
Freaking awesome...
On mechanical side of Pathfinder ... in wildshape you can do 0 things with monk ... yea i am disappointed as well.
But to clarify - you don't have unarmed attacks in animal shape (none of monsters in Bestiary have them) and flurry states that it doesn't work with natural weapons.
Everyone can use unarmed strikes, animals too. They aren't the same as natural attacks though. No creatures, humanoid or not, have unarmed strikes listed among their attacks in the bestiary; that doesn't prevent them from using it.
From what I can see, you can basically use all your abilities as an animal. You just can't use natural attacks with flurries or things like that. Still, a druid 6/monk 4 that wild shapes into a bear gets +4 str and nat armor, a 2d6 unarmed strike and so on. And all speed bonuses and the like remains.
Kung Fu Panda... 'Nuff Said.. :D
Otherwise, I agree with Stringburka...
Cool Thanks :)
Everyone can use unarmed strikes, animals too. They aren't the same as natural attacks though. No creatures, humanoid or not, have unarmed strikes listed among their attacks in the bestiary; that doesn't prevent them from using it.
From what I can see, you can basically use all your abilities as an animal. You just can't use natural attacks with flurries or things like that. Still, a druid 6/monk 4 that wild shapes into a bear gets +4 str and nat armor, a 2d6 unarmed strike and so on. And all speed bonuses and the like remains.
Bestiary, page 302:
Some fey, humanoids, monster humanoids and outsiders do not posses natural attacks.These creatures can make unarmed attacks, but treat them as weapons for the purpose of determining attack bonuses.Everyone to their own, but i read this as if you got claws/slam/hoof/pincers/whatever you can't use Unarmed Strike, cause you got natural weapons, ergo you are never unarmed
P.S. this is only time unarmed shows up outside of monster special "defenses" like Protective Slime.
Bestiary, page 302:
Some fey, humanoids, monster humanoids and outsiders do not posses natural attacks.These creatures can make unarmed attacks, but treat them as weapons for the purpose of determining attack bonuses.Everyone to their own, but i read this as if you got claws/slam/hoof/pincers/whatever you can't use Unarmed Strike
That would mean an orc that takes the bite racial trait from the APG loses his ability to make unarmed strikes, which doesn't make any sense at all. Why should he be worse at kicking just because he's got big teeth? And you can make unarmed strikes while wielding a weapon, so what differs from that and having claws?
I think the line you're referring to simply points out that even a creature that lacks natural weapons can make attacks without manufactured weapons.
That would mean an orc that takes the bite racial trait from the APG loses his ability to make unarmed strikes, which doesn't make any sense at all. Why should he be worse at kicking just because he's got big teeth? And you can make unarmed strikes while wielding a weapon, so what differs from that and having claws?
I think the line you're referring to simply points out that even a creature that lacks natural weapons can make attacks without manufactured weapons.
Wait ... it does make sense and its been used and its still being used, but D20 doesn't base itself on sense, so i have to know, where does it say that you can make unarmed strike with a fist while holding a weapon ?
As for bite, i never mentioned a bite, nor tail, i just mentioned natural weapons that can replace feet and/or hands.Way i see it, is that if you've got Warforged for example and got his hands replaced with 2 weapons, he wouldn't be able to make unarmed attacks with those weapons, same goes for natural attacks.
Cool, Thaks :)
If you have a head, you can make a head butt. Bears and Edward Warforgedhands can still benefit from their monk levels.
And now sharks can use kung-fu. Awesome!
That would mean an orc that takes the bite racial trait from the APG loses his ability to make unarmed strikes, which doesn't make any sense at all. Why should he be worse at kicking just because he's got big teeth? And you can make unarmed strikes while wielding a weapon, so what differs from that and having claws?
I think the line you're referring to simply points out that even a creature that lacks natural weapons can make attacks without manufactured weapons.
Wait ... it does make sense and its been used and its still being used, but D20 doesn't base itself on sense, so i have to know, where does it say that you can make unarmed strike with a fist while holding a weapon ?
As for bite, i never mentioned a bite, nor tail, i just mentioned natural weapons that can replace feet and/or hands.
Way i see it, is that if you've got Warforged for example and got his hands replaced with 2 weapons, he wouldn't be able to make unarmed attacks with those weapons, same goes for natural attacks.
It doesn't say "with a fist" and neither does unarmed strikes require fists. You can do unarmed striked with your feet or, in the case of a monk, a dozen other body parts. And there's no rule support at all for having different rules for Bite natural attacks and Claw natural attacks in this case, at least not in the rules you've quoted and other related sections.
It doesn't say "with a fist" and neither does unarmed strikes require fists. You can do unarmed striked with your feet or, in the case of a monk, a dozen other body parts. And there's no rule support at all for having different rules for Bite natural attacks and Claw natural attacks in this case, at least not in the rules you've quoted and other related sections.
True, apology , i am wrong. I am just pretty sure there is something that prevented it from happening, cause i lost similar discussion to this not a week ago.
Hmm.. mabe we need official help...
If you had a rakshasa with monk levels it could make a flurry of blows (using monk level for damage) and a bite at -5 (-2 with Multiattack feat). This is because monk attacks replace weapon attacks and you can make natural attacks along with weapon attacks at a -5 penalty.
Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
You could also rule that the rakshasa's monk attacks stem from its legs, so it could flurry, claw, claw, bite with the last three attacks at -5 (or -2). I wouldn't rule this way only because it seems incredibly cheesy, but by RAW it works.
So bite away with your kung-fu panda, but if you try to do bear kicks instead (to net two more claw attacks) don't be surprised when your DM rips up your character sheet :)
As I understand it, a monk with natural weapons can't use them as part of a flurry, or tack them onto the end of a flurry. It's an either/or situation. A wildhshaped monk can either use the creatures natural weapon attacks, OR use his flurry of blows and unarmed damage for a monk of the appropriate size.
A monk/druid shifted into a tiger could either do bite/claw/claw @ 1d8 each, OR do a flurry at monk damage for a large monk, he just cant mix n match. It's still beneficial to the monk to shift into a larger creature.
Would the Monk get his higher agility or wizdom based armor class and movement and other benifits added in to that of the Tiger or whatever ?
Being that his mind/spirit is so much higher trianed/evolved than a regular human ?
Would the Monk get his higher agility or wizdom based armor class and movement and other benifits added in to that of the Tiger or whatever ?
Being that his mind/spirit is so much higher trianed/evolved than a regular human ?
He would have the same benefits/limitations of the wild shape ability. His mental stats would remain the same, his physical ones would change according to what he turned into. A large tiger, loses -2 dex but gains +4 str. Since you're gonna be going large to do more damage anyways, i think losing 1 AC isn't that big of a deal. (He would I believe keep his wisdom bonus to AC in the new form, as the only condition that removes it is if he is flat footed, helpless, etc.) If you chose the right form (I don't know what all of the options are) you could make that up in natural armor from the animal as well.
As to his speed bonus, it specificly says its to "land speed". So it wouldnt add to burrow, swimming, climbing or flying, but would to land speed.EDIT: I play a juvenile bronze dragon/4 monk in my saturday game. All of this has come up (with the dragons ability to change forms) and these views reflect the results of this research.
Yes, his AC is insane. :)
Nice :) Thanks :)
If you had a rakshasa with monk levels it could make a flurry of blows (using monk level for damage) and a bite at -5 (-2 with Multiattack feat).
Not true; the monk's flurry of blows ability has a special clause in it that says it can't be combined with natural attacks.
A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
so what about a weretiger monk? in hybred form?
Wait a minute, what about that cat raking thing they do with thier hind legs, thats kind of like a flury of blows, well sort of...
A Giant ! With Monk abilities... Yikes !
Wait a minute... Druid/Monks turning to Fire Elementals or Earth Elementals.... Or even Air or Water Elementlas...
what i ment about the weretiger was in HYBRED form they have claws. would you allow a weretiger monk to use flurry?
(and they stand 8-9 feet tall, giant-like strength...)
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Druid/Monk: What Monkish things can you do in Animal form...
You would deal Unarmed Strikes based on your Monk Unarmed.
If you were a Large Bear, you would deal as per Large Monk Unarmed Strikes.Gargantuan Bear would deal as per Gargantuan Monk Unarmed Strikes, etc.
I'm not sure of anything else you lose from Monk, since nothing depends on your form (PHB p212) so you don't lose anything from Monk.
If Monk had a line "if you don't have opposable thumbs, you can't unarmed strike" then you would deal 1d3 Unarmed as a medium bear of a 20th level polymorphed Monk.
Some fey, humanoids, monster humanoids and outsiders do not posses natural attacks.These creatures can make unarmed attacks, but treat them as weapons for the purpose of determining attack bonuses.
Exact opposite meaning. This line means if you don't have any attack forms (Longsword, Bite, etc) you can always still attack with Unarmed Strike. This doesn't in any way limit/prohibit you from taking Unarmed Strike attack when you do have Slam & Longsword attacks. They will be suboptimal (unless a Monk), but they would be allowed.
If you had a rakshasa with monk levels it could make a flurry of blows (using monk level for damage) and a bite at -5 (-2 with Multiattack feat).
No, you can't use Monk Flurry with any Natural Weapons. See Flurry ability.
Better idea. Why not do the Mountain Druid from the APG. You'll be a Monk with casting and an AniCom until 12th level and then you'll be a Giant Monk. A Giant.
Mask of the Giants in APG works for all Wild Shapes at level 4.
I play a druid monk, though one level monk. I run this past my DM first though because of the one level dip, but my characters background totally allowed for it. I have him spend all his time in earth elemental form, and because of the monk level, he knows how to fight more effectively. I don't use any other ability besides the wisdom modifier to ac and cmd, as non can be used with a slam.
Cool
Cool :)