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Hey guys. I'm trying to figure out what happens to the Eidolon and their equipment when they die. Does their equipment drop to the floor or do they take the equipment with them? It's not a summon, it's a calling, which makes me think they'd keep the equipment. I'd love to get an official answer or just opinions with reasons why.
Hey guys. I'm trying to figure out what happens to the Eidolon and their equipment when they die. Does their equipment drop to the floor or do they take the equipment with them? It's not a summon, it's a calling, which makes me think they'd keep the equipment. I'd love to get an official answer or just opinions with reasons why.
I don't think their equipment goes with them, but I honestly have no rules quote. Summoning your buddy into a combat then waiting for him to "get dressed" seems like a bad idea.
It is a summon, not a calling.
The equipment drops on the floor.
Ahhmmm... Wouldn't that mean if i use Summon Monster IX to summon a Astral Deva i get a +2 disrupting warhammer or +1 flaming composite longbow form my dieing sommoned Erinyes (Summoen Monster VI)?
Out of my head that must be wrong...we handle summon monster spells like this it comes with equipment and it takes the equipment with it when it goes (dies, duration ends...).
Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score.
So we are going to handle the eidolon like a summon monster. It comes and goes with its equipment. In the beta if i remeber correctly this was explicit written.
The problem with this ruling is what belongs to the eidelons equipment. e.x if the eidelon picks up a +5 Holy Hammer to bring it to the paladin and then gets killed on its way does the Hammer go with it?
So we will properly rule it: The Summoner gives the Eidelon equipment and states that this equipment belongs to his Eidelon (marked on his sheet). When the eidelon vanishes it takes all of it's equipment with him and comes back with it next time its sommuned (spell or ritual)...
Balance technical this question is only an issue for the summon eidelon spell. So why make this spell any weaker than it is....
Breiti
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We've houseruled that since the eidolon and summoner share body slots, when the summoner summons the eidolon he decides which items he allocates to the eidolon from items the summoner currently has equiped. If the eidolon dies or is dismissed, items in those slots immediately return to the summoner, equipped as they were before. Items carried drop to the ground where the eidolon was when it went away.
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You know, as Breiti mentioned this way clearly spelled out in the Beta. An Eidolon's equipment was an Eidolon's equipment wherever he was. One of the Paizo guys even posted about it clarifying it further...
...then the APG itself comes out and there's no mention anywhere of whether the Eidolon' equipment stays or goes. Is it implied, somehow, and the staff didn't think they needed to mention it? Or, should we take the fact that they removed the section to mean that Eidolon's no longer keep their equipment?
Quite a quandry. FAQing this.
Also, the only mention of equipment for the Eidolon ANYWHERE is under it's Link ability at first level. Took me quite a while to actually find anywhere that said Eidolons could where magic items in the first place.
EDIT: The Armor bonus section also mentions they can't wear armor, but I think we all knew that already :D
You know, Paizo did the same thing with the 'you cannot change your eidolon's base form' rule. It was there in the alpha version, and then they simply removed every mention of it in the released version.
I'm going to just assume that in both cases it now works in the way that is the most beneficial to the eidolon (since the original rules were not good for it at all, lol). All equipment stays with the eidolon. If it didn't work that way, I would figure out how to give all his stuff harmless curses so that it would teleport back into his possession when he gets summoned ;)
My understanding has always been that to give a creatur equipment you need to call it. Given with some of the ideas above the eidolon can become a giant extra planar pack mule. Just load it to the brim before sending it back.
Hand the Eidolon the plot McGuffin. Kill the Summoner. Plot broken!
My understanding has always been that to give a creatur equipment you need to call it. Given with some of the ideas above the eidolon can become a giant extra planar pack mule. Just load it to the brim before sending it back.
Ok, why not it still seams balanced. A chracter that gives up a major class abilitie for a summonable back of holding.
Hand the Eidolon the plot McGuffin. Kill the Summoner. Plot broken!
For a low level party, yes. A mid to high level party can resurect the summoner or has an intersting side quest! Find the place for where this eidelon was called ;-)
Hopefull we get a clear answer for this issues. *fingers crossed*
I will start to play a summoner next week. Currently always thougth the equipment comes and goes with him. But now i think i have to double check with my GM.
Breiti
No, because it comes with those- it picked them up or whatever where it is from. If you give it a magic hat to wear, the hat drops off at the end of it.
You are right. Just don't make much sense for the eidolon.
The summon Eidolon spell and the SLA that brings him out as long as you are concsious are both summoning abilities, and play by the same rules. The houserule you suggest could affect both equally.
Sounds good the part with the ritual ;-)
The summon Eidolon spell and the SLA that brings him out as long as you are concsious are both summoning abilities, and play by the same rules. The houserule you suggest could affect both equally.
No, way if this houserule could affect summon monsters that would indead unblance the game.
Thanks for you comments ... hopefull some more people will flag this thing for the FAQ.
Breiti
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If a eidolon doesn't get to keep any equipment, what would be the point of ever giving it the Martial weapon proficiency? Would you really want to have your summoner wandering around with a weapon they aren't going to use, just so they can gear up their eidolon? If I create a large eidolon and get him a large great sword or any large equipment, then when my eidolon dies I have to lug around a giant sword that I can't use. I have to assume that as part of the ritual you get to designate items that are bound to the eidolon. I don't think the eidolon would be able to just grab things and take them with it, it would have to be part of the ritual or something. If it were as simple as having the eidolon touch something then it would be broken. (Disarm the badguy and then disapear) The summoner would have to give the items and bind them to the eidolon, as part of the ritual. Otherwise everytime the eidolon dies, the Summoner is stuck lugging around everything they had which doesn't make sense to me.
If they don't get to keep the items, then why let them have weapon proficiencies. I can't imagine they expect the players to summon their eidolon, wait for them to gear up, then go into battle. At least not with the Summon Eidolon spell. am I supposed to keep 2 stat sheets for my Eidolon with and without gear? It doesn't sound like a sound judgment to me.
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We have always solidly ruled that the eidolon's gear goes with it and comes back with it no matter what manner in which it comes and goes...
That has even on these threads created the 'thief summoner' who breaks into a place, summons his eidolon, hands it a bunch of stolen richstuff. Dismisses it. Sneaks out. Resummons from a safe place...
I don't think that's broken though. Banishing a pit fiend or a balrog to win his cheap loot. that would be broken. Vorpal weapons for everyone! Just let me jack up my casterlevel for banishing here a minute...
Even the 'eidolon picks up plot macguffin' isn't broken... If it's dangerous for the summoner to die and for the plot macguffin to be lost forever... Think about that ahead of time and don't give the plot macguffin to the eidolon in the first place... Giving the eidolon the plot macguffin isn't broken.. It's foolish and dangerous.
Understand the mechanics and then play appropriate to the mechanics.
I'll be bummed if this is officially faq'd as the eidolon's equipment dropping where it lies... what a pain in the a$$ summoners would be not just for themselves but for the whole party.
What do you want them to do instead.. Start focusing on summon monster all dam* day?
You know, as Breiti mentioned this way clearly spelled out in the Beta. An Eidolon's equipment was an Eidolon's equipment wherever he was. One of the Paizo guys even posted about it clarifying it further...
...then the APG itself comes out and there's no mention anywhere of whether the Eidolon' equipment stays or goes. Is it implied, somehow, and the staff didn't think they needed to mention it? Or, should we take the fact that they removed the section to mean that Eidolon's no longer keep their equipment?
Quite a quandry. FAQing this.
Also, the only mention of equipment for the Eidolon ANYWHERE is under it's Link ability at first level. Took me quite a while to actually find anywhere that said Eidolons could where magic items in the first place.
EDIT: The Armor bonus section also mentions they can't wear armor, but I think we all knew that already :D
considering the staff response to the FAQing of this post with "no reply required", I'd think that the first paragraph here is the answer.
http://psociety.wikidot.com/forum/t-276775
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Thank goodness I don't think of society rules as official rulings for non society play
Thank goodness I don't think of society rules as official rulings for non society play
If that were the case, several things were blanket banned out of pathfinder as a whole, not at least all 3PP and homebrew content. ;)
For my game, I think I am going with any equipment the Eidolon is equipped with will stay with it. 'Equipped' as worn, such as rings, backpacks, and saddle bags. It will simplify things enough that the Summoner can equip load it up with combat gear, and use it as a pack animal (if she thinks to do so). On the other hand if the eidolon gets "unsummoned" somehow, and was loaded with all of the food...
Unless the summoner has the quick calling feat, it takes a full minute to complete the ritual; not something that can be done in the middle of combat. So, taking the time for the critter to get "dressed" shouldn't be a real issue.
http://psociety.wikidot.com/forum/t-276775
There is a bit of a problem with that, given the amount of cheese that some people come up with...
Eidolons are limited in the amount of gear and equipment they can use. Their forms tend to shift over time, making certain types of gear impossible to use properly. Eidolons with the proper training and the limbs (arms) evolution can wield weapons. They suffer the normal penalties for wielding more than one weapon, regardless of the number of arms they possess. Eidolons cannot wear armor, due to their shifting form, but those that take the proper feat can use a shield. Eidolons can use some magic items. Each eidolon can wear up to two rings, if it has the limbs (arms) evolution. Each eidolon can wear a single magic item in the following slots: eyes, head, neck, and shoulders. An eidolon with the limbs (arms) evolution or the tentacle evolution can drink potions.
Any magic items possessed by the eidolon fall to the ground when the eidolon is sent back to its home plane, regardless of the reason. If this includes cursed items, the items immediately return to the eidolon when it is summoned again.source: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/advanced PlayersGuidePlaytest/round2/uPDATESummoner
Given the bolded and italiced parts, I can see many Summoners giving their Eidolon a nice magic item, then sending it back to whence it came. Picking up said item, selling it in the big city, then after leaving the city summoning the eidolon back, and regaining the item...
http://psociety.wikidot.com/forum/t-276775There is a bit of a problem with that, given the amount of cheese that some people come up with...
Given the bolded and italiced parts, I can see many Summoners giving their Eidolon a nice magic item, then sending it back to whence it came. Picking up said item, selling it in the big city, then after leaving the city summoning the eidolon back, and regaining the item...Eidolons are limited in the amount of gear and equipment they can use. Their forms tend to shift over time, making certain types of gear impossible to use properly. Eidolons with the proper training and the limbs (arms) evolution can wield weapons. They suffer the normal penalties for wielding more than one weapon, regardless of the number of arms they possess. Eidolons cannot wear armor, due to their shifting form, but those that take the proper feat can use a shield. Eidolons can use some magic items. Each eidolon can wear up to two rings, if it has the limbs (arms) evolution. Each eidolon can wear a single magic item in the following slots: eyes, head, neck, and shoulders. An eidolon with the limbs (arms) evolution or the tentacle evolution can drink potions.
Any magic items possessed by the eidolon fall to the ground when the eidolon is sent back to its home plane, regardless of the reason. If this includes cursed items, the items immediately return to the eidolon when it is summoned again.source: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/advanced PlayersGuidePlaytest/round2/uPDATESummoner
This only applies to cursed items, would you really want that thing, whatever it is back on your eidolon?
This only applies to cursed items, would you really want that thing, whatever it is back on your eidolon?
Bags of devouring have their uses, if you know that it is one.
I personally love the idea of all the gear going away with it for the very reason that I personally do prefer loading up my eidolon wtih 'all the food'
It does make life more interesting when you're 'all the food' just got banished. Nobody said it was a perfect plan. The ROI there is It's a drawback I'm comfortable with the gm exploiting, banishing her gear away with her.
I send her away each night with all my money so I can't be robbed during my sleep. That does mean however that if I need to pay for anything at all, I need to bring her back first. I think it's much more fun to do it that way than have all her stuff drop to the floor. Kill her so she can't come back for the rest of the day and she's got all my food and money? That can be a problem... And it's not such a bad problem compared to not having to deal with dragging her loot around myself when she's not there.
Drop to the floor is more 'pain in the a$$' than fun, and anytime a fiat is put to the vote, we always vote fun over a$$.
Heh yeah , i also play with the eidolon keeping the gear.
Mine gets tons of items even including handle haversack ,a fiddle so it can play (since it got high performance ), literally an entire adventurer gear set of its own (my eidolon got more tools/fluff (like boardgames/cards...) items than other PCs by itself) and the usual set of great swords it can pick from depending on what needs to die.
I do carry my own set of gear , so while it is not with me im still pretty much covered, outside big amounts of money :P.
Does anyone else feel wierd reading their stff from several years ago? Anyhow as far as tge game rules go this actually is fairly clear. With a few caveats eidolons are treated as summoned creatures.
More or less the same rules that prevent your eidolon from perma dying are why its gear drops to the ground. If you want it to have the stuff you need to call the eidolon.
I've never seen an official ruling on it and would welcome a link to a hard answer about how it's handled outside of society play. Until then it's fiat.
The trouble is that summoned creatures don't have gear when we're talking about those summoned creatures being wolves and tigers and t-rexes...
If the summoned creature is a pit fiend, does he bring stuff with him... When he's banished does his grear drop... if he's 'killed' does his gear drop... or does it go back from whence he came.
The exploit we've found before is folks banishing pit fiends to get vorpal weaponry. Does a lillend drop their harp? Talk about a WBL nightmare (not that I care about wbl, but a lot of people do)
If you're the kind of person that argues the gear you give an eidolon isn't considered theirs, it becomes fiat semantics about 'what counts as gear and what doesn't'
If we hand the pit fiend a rhinoceros beetle. Is that now his loot?
If he stabs it and it dies... is that now his loot?
If he then uses it as a tongue piercing... now is that his loot?
If his vorpal weapon disappears when he's slain or banished, then really it wasn't a vorpal weapon... It was an 'aspect of his vorpal weapon' functioning somehow as a vorpal weapons still.... though actually safe with him in hell the whole time...
It's a wonky mechanic at best and as far as I know, not solidly ruled on. Every attempt I've found to solidify it is met with 'no reply needed'... Aesthetically twice in this thread alone... That was the OP/Breiti and then Austin's post above from 3 years ago today! Happy third anniversary Faqqed issue!
For another attempt at an faq: click here!
11 people on that one so far and no official reply on that version of it yet.
Here as well they take another odd crack at it from a different angle...
I laugh when I hear folks says the gear should revert back to the summoner given the 'eidolon anchoring harness'... Some freaky BDSM action going on there... Then again I'm not entirely clear that the summoner isn't supposed to be the one wearing the harness the whole time anyway...
As Alice would say.. Curiouser and curiouser...
"No reply required". Really?
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Eidolons are limited in the amount of gear and equipment they can use. Their forms tend to shift over time, making certain types of gear impossible to use properly. Eidolons with the proper training and the limbs (arms) evolution can wield weapons. They suffer the normal penalties for wielding more than one weapon, regardless of the number of arms they possess. Eidolons cannot wear armor, due to their shifting form, but those that take the proper feat can use a shield. Eidolons can use some magic items. Each eidolon can wear up to two rings, if it has the limbs (arms) evolution. Each eidolon can wear a single magic item in the following slots: eyes, head, neck, and shoulders. An eidolon with the limbs (arms) evolution or the tentacle evolution can drink potions.
Any magic items possessed by the eidolon fall to the ground when the eidolon is sent back to its home plane, regardless of the reason. If this includes cursed items, the items immediately return to the eidolon when it is summoned again.source: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/advanced PlayersGuidePlaytest/round2/uPDATESummoner
Since that bolded section calls out magic items in particular, does that mean that mundane items actually travel with the eidolon when it is unsummoned?
I mean, otherwise why would they specify 'magic' and not just say "items" ?| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The important part is that was a conversation in the playtest forums about the class during development, and no official documentation on the issue made it to print. Some believe that's because it was forgotten. Others believe it was a purposeful decision by the publisher that by ommitting that detail it would leave that decision up to the tables themselves to handle as they like on a case by case basis. I did provide a link above to the existing open faq request on this issue if you'd like to join it.
I'm hoping if there ever is an official ruling on it that the ruling is 'do whatever you like' because it gets me what I want at my own table without stepping on other gms toes.
Does it matter other than in PFS play?
It's in no way game breaking to let the thing take its equipment with it. So just houserule it and get over it. Really. Get over it. This is so tiny and insignificant a matter with no game breaking possibilities.
In a campaign a few years ago, the wizard of the group enjoyed summoning the same type of djinn over and over. So I decided it could be the same exact NPC djinn. I allowed them to give him equipment, we gave him a name, and he came when summoned.
The overall earth shattering, word-ending, life-destroying result?!?
We had an enjoyable NPC in the game.
OH MY GOD!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!
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