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Hey all,
So, we have a question regarding the Cavalier's Challenge (+1 damage/Level) and Spirited Charge.
First off,with Spirited Charge, the rider does double damage, triple with a lance.
Our Cavalier is Level 5, Damage is 1D8+3.
So, Charging Damage 3D8+9, that is pretty straightforward.
However, he may add +5 damage to his attack, once he issues a challenge. The player seems to think that this is also tripled. AFAICT, there is nothing stating that bonus damage coming from a supernatural,special,extraordinary or other power is multiplied on this charge.
If a Paladin does +6 with a Smite, does he now do +18 on the SC? Just because he is on a horse, his Holy Channel is multiplied? This seems ludicrous to me.Such bonus points are clearly based upon either the Attribute (CHA for the Paladin) or the Level (Challenge for the Cavalier).
In effect, this Level 5 Cavalier now gets a bonus equal to a Lvl 15 Cavalier, because of a Feat?
3D8+9+15 is pretty over-the-top at Lvl 5, considering it isn't even a Crit (Which will be 9D8+27...+ the Challenge bonus.)
Looking for some official ruling, or someone who knows where this is addressed, in Errata or elsewhere, thanks in advance.
-Uriel
Multipliers are additive in both 3.5 and PF. If it is a 2x critical hit on a Spirited Charge with a lance, it does 4x damage. If it is a 3x multiplier, it does 5x.
But, yeah, it can get kind of silly, but there are a lot of limitations on it. They must have spent several feats, be mounted, be able to charge, be wielding a lance, and hit the target. They give up a full attack and must move away on the horse to do it again the next round.
Core p.179: Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modif iers) multiple times and total the results ... Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.
All static bonuses to damage (Strength mod, Weapon Specialisation, Enhancement bonuses, smite etc.) are multiplied.
So, if normal damage is 1d8 + 8 it becomes 3d8 + 24.
If he smote for an extra 5 damage it would become 3d8 + 39.
Yeah, they're good for that hit, but then either have to draw a sword (or whatever melee weapon) or keep going, turn around and come back again.
Plus good luck with that heavy warhorse in a dungeon/flying/every other wierd place PC's go.
Yeah, they're good for that hit, but then either have to draw a sword (or whatever melee weapon) or keep going, turn around and come back again.
Ride-by Attack. They can keep going as part of the charge and charge back next turn. There's no facing so they don't even have to turn around.
Plus good luck with that heavy warhorse in a dungeon
Small character, Medium mount
flying
Umm, Dire Falcon mount? Baby Griffon? Ooo! Phantom Steed.
every other wierd place PC's go.
Water Breathing/Freedom of Movement? Uhh...
Yeah, your players would have to get pretty creative to take their mount everywhere. Not to mention the extra resources they would have to spend on the magic necessary for these hair-brained ideas.
Yeah, my next character's gonna be a Velociraptor riding Halfling Paladin.
So...
Cavalier lvl 5
Str 20 +5 (+7 damage two handed weapon)
Chalenge +5 damege
Power Attack +4 damage
Lance + 1
3d8 + 51 =p
Not trying to over do people here but currently got a Cavalier that does 9d6+165 on a challenged charge(More against certain enemy). His weakness is a slow mount (30 ft). Yeah Cavaliers are very powerful on a charge but that is one of their main features. To hit that level of damage he is designed for it. But when a mage can cast a 4th level spell that can kill things in one(needs 2 failed saves) then why cant a Cavalier have a high damage charge?
Though nice damage for a level 5.... Mines lvl 16 so yeah big differance. Good luck with the characters and to contribute to the discussion.
Lance charge is 2x damage
With spirited it becomes 3 times
The standard lance crit is x4 but if you charge with spirited its x6
If a Cavalier is level 20 it becomes x7 on a successful crit with a charge.... Good for that first initial wallop and then the mage or ranged fighters finish it off.
An example.
Crit a Gargantuan dragon with my Cavalier. Bloodied the damn thing. Ranged fighter puts 4 arrows into it. Dragons turn. Combat cast teleport. Survives with 3 hp....
In effect, this Level 5 Cavalier now gets a bonus equal to a Lvl 15 Cavalier, because of a Feat?
Clearly, you've never statted up a 15th level cavalier.
3D8+9+15 is pretty over-the-top at Lvl 5
You're kidding, right? Stat up a 5th level fighter or barbarian built strictly for melee damage and you can get some pretty sick builds that don't require you to charge on a mount to reap the benefits. And a 5th-level sorcerer can do as much to a whole group of enemies at once. (Limited uses, you say? How many times a day will your cavalier get to use Spirited Charge?)