Darkwing Duck wrote: Abraham spalding wrote: Someone doesn't want a wisdom of 14 and to spend a skill point a level? Granted the trait might be tough -- how could we live without rich parents?
Poison and disease might not be the most common form -- but they are one of the most common ways of taking one of the most serious forms of damage: Ability damage. Heal offers a way to prevent and mitigate that.
All in all that's still just first level, even if it isn't a class skill for you having it as a skill is an excellent choice for what it can do for the party, and yourself.
Personally I tend to make it a point to have the skill, as I have found it just as useful as perception, UMD, and acrobatics.
I will repeat myself though just once: Having a healer isn't necessary.
But heck if all you want to do is be agreed with I'll get out of the way of your rant.
What do you want? You dropped into this thread with an alternative pov. I don't agree with you. So, you want to drop out of the thread. Be my guest.
You still haven't addresssed the core problem with the heal skill. It can not replace a healer class. It can only heal 1hp/level. So, if a Barbarian (assume 8hp/level) lost 7/8ths of his hit points in a battle, it would take a week before he was back to max. At that rate, it could take a year to complete a small dungeon. Without create food and water, the party would need a large number of NPCs (a major expedition, really) just to camp to provide sustenance while the party is cleaning out that small dungeon. If what you say is true (about the time it would take to complete the dongeon) I assume your GM is a dick. If making a 1-level dongeon is so hard for a no-healer party, then HE should question his GMing. You should be able to get trough an easy quest. There are no pre-made quests that defines what a good party is. That's the difference between Wow and Dnd or PF : you don't have to play according to the game, the game is created according to you.
**SORRY FOR THE 3 POSTS BY THE WAY ^^"**
That being said; if you're a wizard starting with 19 intelligence, you've got 6 skill points a level, and then more later when you boost your INT higher. If you want to take UMD as a non-class skill, just in case you ever need it, feel free. You won't ever be as good at it as a high CHA class, and are usually better off just using magic items based on your class spells, but hey. At least if everyone else ends up knocked out from damage, you can walk over to the cleric, pick up his wand of CLW, and have a chance of using it successfully.
Grey Lensman wrote:
The sorcerer has it because they ARE magic in a way. Plus the limited spells known makes it more likely they would use wands and such than wizards.
With current spells, feats and magic items the sorcerer is significantly more flexible with spells than the wizard.
Artanthos wrote: Grey Lensman wrote:
The sorcerer has it because they ARE magic in a way. Plus the limited spells known makes it more likely they would use wands and such than wizards.
With current spells, feats and magic items the sorcerer is significantly more flexible with spells than the wizard. That's debatable, and not what he was saying anyway. All he was saying is that wands and such are more useful to sorcerers, because they know a limited number of spells, so you can carry a wand of a spell you don't know and increase your flexibility a lot. For a wizard a wand is usually just extra spells a day; still useful, but not as crucial.
Yosarian wrote: That being said; if you're a wizard starting with 19 intelligence, you've got 6 skill points a level, and then more later when you boost your INT higher. If you want to take UMD as a non-class skill, just in case you ever need it, feel free. You won't ever be as good at it as a high CHA class, and are usually better off just using magic items based on your class spells, but hey. At least if everyone else ends up knocked out from damage, you can walk over to the cleric, pick up his wand of CLW, and have a chance of using it successfully. For a very high level wizard having UMD can get quite ugly.
If I understand PF rules ... At 20th level 10 ranks plus another +7 fairly readily (24 Int) you are looking at an easy average of making DC=28 (11+17) with a potential of making DC 37. That's without anything else, such as magic items, adding to the Skill Check. To heck with the Wand of Cure Light Wounds I grab his Staff of Life.
Quote: For a very high level wizard having UMD can get quite ugly.
If I understand PF rules ... At 20th level 10 ranks plus another +7 fairly readily (24 Int) you are looking at an easy average of making DC=28 (11+17) with a potential of making DC 37. That's without anything else, such as magic items, adding to the Skill Check. To heck with the Wand of Cure Light Wounds I grab his Staff of Life.
Why only 10 ranks? All skills have the same cap in Pathfinder, which is equal to your level. The only difference between class skills and non-class skills is the +3 bonus.
Also, Use Magic Device is charisma based, not intelligence.
So a 20th level can have 20 ranks. That alone is an easy average of making a DC 30, and a maximum result of 40. Thats without any ability modifier, or magical items. The highest UMD check you will ever need to make is a DC 40 check, to use caster level 20 scrolls.
(On the other side, a 20th level sorcerer, with no magical items and a Charisma of 24 would have a modifier of +30, and an average check result of 40.)
Jeraa wrote: Quote: For a very high level wizard having UMD can get quite ugly.
If I understand PF rules ... At 20th level 10 ranks plus another +7 fairly readily (24 Int) you are looking at an easy average of making DC=28 (11+17) with a potential of making DC 37. That's without anything else, such as magic items, adding to the Skill Check. To heck with the Wand of Cure Light Wounds I grab his Staff of Life.
Why only 10 ranks? All skills have the same cap in Pathfinder, which is equal to your level. The only difference between class skills and non-class skills is the +3 bonus. That I didn't know (which of course makes it 'worse')
Quote: Also, Use Magic Device is charisma based, not intelligence. Oops and Doh! Must be getting tired. I did know that.
Quote: So a 20th level can have 20 ranks. That alone is an easy average of making a DC 30, and a maximum result of 40. Thats without any ability modifier, or magical items. The highest UMD check you will ever need to make is a DC 40 check, to use caster level 20 scrolls.
(On the other side, a 20th level sorcerer, with no magical items and a Charisma of 24 would have a modifier of +30, and an average check result of 40.)
Which is, of course, my point. I grab pretty much whatever magic item I want and use it. My Wizard (3.5) also had a number of levels of Loremaster for which UMD is a class skill. By about 17th level he could use UMD to handle just about any magic item around.
Artanthos wrote: If you want UMD as a class skill, take the dangerously curious trait or the underlying principles trait. Or just get skill focus which gives you a bonus equal to having it as a class skill.
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