Detect evil is 60 feet. If a paladin sneaks up on Wiverns to detect their intent(which might be washed out by the evil dungeon) they might wake up. This is why the rest of the party should attack and the Paladin should just protect the spellcaster.
And about what you said about I don't know if your god speaks directly to you, I am pretty sure I do. I'm pretty sure it's just your big ego, if you think your god speaks directly to you.
Wow, you have been holding out on me big time....
You have irrefutable proof about the existance(or lack there of) of a divine being and you haven't been sharing?
Check Wikipedia, roughly 11% of the worlds population is Atheist. This includes the sects of certain religions that believe there are no gods. That means roughly 89% of the worlds population is either a believer or agnostic. Agnostic allows for the existence of the divine, while believers are just that they believe that the divine exists. So 5.3 billion people believe in some form of diety or at the very least think that they may exist.
This is a world where the gods of the world speak directly to and through the mortals am I wrong?
Unless I am off the mark, your implication is that this doesn't happen in our world? So you are right and 5.3 billion people are are wrong, and I am the one with a big ego?
What would you say if I told you I think God talks to everyone, but most people, myself included, really don't want to listen?
Ah the fine line between religion and mental illness. Also, 5.3 billion people do not believe a deity speaks to them, they have the belief of the existence of a deity. There is a minority of the 5.3 billion who believe that a deity speaks to them directly, which is what TGAMPA was getting at.
There is a very palpable difference between real world religions and fantasy world religions.
In the real world, politicians and liars can abuse scripture to serve their own evil ends, and never be punished by the god they mock and pervert for their own diabolical ends.
In all but a few fantasy worlds, a cleric who used a good and beneficial faith (which Christianity, Islam and so on claim to be) for his own evil ends would find himself on the business end of a lightningbolt from the clear sky. One that merely parades as a holy man and uses the scripture will soon find himself the target of half the church's paladins and inquisitors.
In homebrew grimdark setting X-32, god is a sentient cheese, the church is a collective of mathematicians figuring out the meaning of ties, and the messiah is a pink flamingo, with eyes fire lazors, a breath-weapon that deal 13d7 ice-cream damage, and is vulnerable to kittens. (My not so subtle way of saying that if you invent your OWN setting that do not mimic either mainstream statement, then obviously you have an exception, and it is kinda irrelevant to constructive debate around real life and a fixed fantasy setting)
Goth Guru: Detect Evil has a range of 60', and even then, you only detect creatures with evil alignments, meaning that your intent to do evil and whatnot does nothing. Which in turn spawn the whole "WHY cannot monsters that act evil be defaulted to their behavior instead of their base alignment?".
But yes, a paladin is looking at a much longer and much more successful career if he is built as a tank and a babysitter, because protecting the weak is a pretty safe bet. Then smite when stuff comes close.
as a player of the game that was in question i just came to say.... we moved on.
thanks for the 1.2k posts though
No problem. 2 questions tho:
1: Did you come to the lair after figuring it all out by looking at the notes and investigating the disappearance, or was it some manner of space-fluke, like wandering around and exploring random mountains?
2: Could you ask your GM to come by and post "MY GOD! I HAVE CREATED A MONSTER!" :P
Otherwise, enjoy the campaign. I am planning on finishing part 4 tomorrow, been one of the weaker parts so far, but mostly because my party is slightly "optimized".
"Do you know what they call a munchkin in Europe?"
"They don't call it a munchkin?"
"Nah, they are all cultured and sh*t, they think a munchkin is a short fat kid."
"So, what DO they call a munchkin in Europe?"
"Optimizer with Cheese."
"... optimizer with cheese..."
Why the Paladin of course.
He is the only one with Pockets to carry the money in :)
the wyverns are going to attack the party so it's best to kill em before they kill the party and was metagaming
That's not metagaming unless the paladin has an extraordinarily low intelligence. He , the player, is comming to the reasonable conclusion that going into the wyverns territory will respond in them attacking. The character could also come to that very reasonable conclussion. Unless the paladins player looks over your screen to see the beastiary open to the wyvern page his player has no knowledge that his character does not and is not metagaming.
Are paladins vegetarians in your campaign? If not, killing non or semi sentient creatures, non good for food, clothing, or because they pose a threat to good sentient creatures isn't an evil act: its his job. Those things are dangerous and, under most lawful good societies, don't have any rights. He might have violated local poaching laws, but he wasn't doing anything evil.
As to killing them in their sleep: a paladin probably could not kill a sentient creature in its sleep, but there's nothing inherently evil about the act.
And this is were we seriously start going in circles.
Not that i'd expect people to read through 1k+ posts to find out everything has already been covered -_-
But there's a limit to repetition, lets just call this a thread and be proud we fed it until it became gargantuan.
Heck, in the last days i realized this thread developed a frightful presence, logic resistance and immunities to sleep and attempts to magically discern it's alignment.
We SHOULD let it rest...(i know we won't, but whatever.)
Anyway, i'm not getting involved with the new guys if they are out of context -_-
Aww, come on man! This thread is FUN!
"MY GOD! I HAVE CREATED A MONSTER!"
Aww, come on man! This thread is FUN!And this is were we seriously start going in circles.
Not that i'd expect people to read through 1k+ posts to find out everything has already been covered -_-
But there's a limit to repetition, lets just call this a thread and be proud we fed it until it became gargantuan.
Heck, in the last days i realized this thread developed a frightful presence, logic resistance and immunities to sleep and attempts to magically discern it's alignment.
We SHOULD let it rest...(i know we won't, but whatever.)
Anyway, i'm not getting involved with the new guys if they are out of context -_-Dude, you're addicted, you admitted to it. You tried stopping to read it, but couldn't.
It's not good for you. Nor for any of us. It was good while it lasted, but we need to move on. ;)
I can quit this thread whenever I want!!! I am NOT an addict!
"MY GOD! I HAVE CREATED A MONSTER!"
>:D I'm sorry, I lolled so hard when I read that x3
This thread sort of reminds me of long drawn out anime. It has its different arcs and even begins to reuse stuff when its run out of material. It's just amazing how long it has lasted considering its low budget and lack of viewer approval.
EDIT: I thank MordredofFairy, who has continued to push this project along even after the director had retracted his support for it xp
"MY GOD! I HAVE CREATED A MONSTER!">:D I'm sorry, I lolled so hard when I read that x3
This thread sort of reminds me of long drawn out anime. It has its different arcs and even begins to reuse stuff when its run out of material. It's just amazing how long it has lasted considering its low budget and lack of viewer approval.
EDIT: I thank MordredofFairy, who has continued to push this project along even after the director had retracted his support for it xp
ah, thank you, thank you. Despite the viewer approval, i knew it had potential, i wanted to create an epic masterpiece.
And those caught in it, couldn't get enough. It's a love it or hate it kind of thing, as all great art is.
I'll take this moment to also extend my thanks to everybody else who helped create this and....
Yo, MordredofFairy, I am really happy for ya and all, and imma let you finish, but I just gotta say; this paladin did the best call of ALL TIME! OF ALL TIME!
"Hello! Anyone home?"
"It's clear guys. No one's here. Come on in, and lets get this party started."
"I got the beers!"
"Be quiet you flaming fool! You're going to wake up the sleeping neutral wyverns!"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is this thing still going?
I roll to disbelieve.
Sorry I'm late, guys!
That should do it.
Lost but not forgotten :)
The party is about to enter a tomb in between two cliffs roughly around 200 ft apart. On the opposite side of the tomb, the party notices a pair of sleeping wyverns.
The paladin (Paladin of erastil) says "lets kill the wyverns before we enter the tomb" (he also said out of character that the wyverns are going to attack the party so it's best to kill em before they kill the party and was metagaming).
The party pulls out it's bows and wakes up the wyverns, kills one of the wyverns. And the other one runs away because she was mortally wounded.
I told the paladin that he lost his powers cause he committed an evil act by acting a sleeping sentient being that was not evil. And I told him that he essentially killed 3 wyverns as the pair had a nest and that the one wyvern wouldn't be able to properly hunt and feed her litter of wyverns (2).
His argument was that they were monster and needed to be purged from the land.
So my question is that is what he did an evil act in killing the wyverns while they are asleep. At the very least the action is cowardly, as paladins' should not attack sleeping foes.
I would have dropped from your game immediately after that, unless it has been made crystal clear earlier, that wyverns can and do coexist peacefully with humanoid society. Even if my PCs wasn't the paladin.
|
The party is about to enter a tomb in between two cliffs roughly around 200 ft apart. On the opposite side of the tomb, the party notices a pair of sleeping wyverns.
The paladin (Paladin of erastil) says "lets kill the wyverns before we enter the tomb" (he also said out of character that the wyverns are going to attack the party so it's best to kill em before they kill the party and was metagaming).
The party pulls out it's bows and wakes up the wyverns, kills one of the wyverns. And the other one runs away because she was mortally wounded.
I told the paladin that he lost his powers cause he committed an evil act by acting a sleeping sentient being that was not evil. And I told him that he essentially killed 3 wyverns as the pair had a nest and that the one wyvern wouldn't be able to properly hunt and feed her litter of wyverns (2).
His argument was that they were monster and needed to be purged from the land.
So my question is that is what he did an evil act in killing the wyverns while they are asleep. At the very least the action is cowardly, as paladins' should not attack sleeping foes.
I would have dropped from your game immediately after that, unless it has been made crystal clear earlier, that wyverns can and do coexist peacefully with humanoid society. Even if my PCs wasn't the paladin.
This made me think that this thread deserves some What If.
Thus : What If instead of a Paladin, the Wyvern-killer had been a Druid ?
Would he have lost his powers because his actions would have shown that he had ceased to revere Nature ? Or maybe even because his alignment changed to a prohibited one (LG, CG, LN or CN) ?
Let this thread live again !!!
I roll to disbelieve.
Quote of the Year
A paladin's alignment isn't the only consideration. He also has a code of honor he must follow or he will lose his abilities.
I think he should have challenged the wyverns to battle, giveing them the option of fighting or fleeing.
Jumping sleeping monsters is dastardly of not cowardly.
Druid alignment is even more fun than paladins:
Child: "Oh, I need some healing, druid, my leg is broken! WAAAAH!"
Druid: "Sorry, that is not the way of nature. I cannot heal your leg."
Child: "But I just saw you heal lots of broken legs on other children."
Druid: "True, but if I were to heal your leg too, I would no longer be
a druid due to doing too much good."
Child: "But... but..."
Druid: "Yes, my child. There are many others who have broken legs here.
To be able to heal them, I need to return to a balanced alignment, and
the only way to do that is to do evil."
Child: "So you won't help me?"
Druid: "Of course not. You are going to help me restore my alignment."
<Pulls his scimitar>
Druid: "Now please hold still, this won't hurt for long..."
I hate the 'Neutral means Balance' idea. Mostly because to maintain balance, you can't take any actions, because the moment you do you've lost the Balance.
I disagree with that mainly because most philosophies surrouding the idea of a balance often define what that balance as part of their mission statement. It's only when someone does not define what they mean by balance or has an abyssmally defined version of it(old school druids, I'm looking at you) that this argument tends to be correct.
Lost but not forgotten :)
F&^$.