I pretty much see it as the old Clarke saying—if the technology is significantly advanced from what you can comprehend, it'll look like magic. I'm pretty sure that if 10-year-old me back in 1982 was shown an iphone that you touch the glass of to watch a movie would have thought it was magic.I haven't put any thought into that theme as far as Starfinder is concerned.On the topic of Starfinder, do you think Starfinder has the underlying theme of "the death of magic and its replacement by technology"?
Because at times, there seems to be little that the Technomancer and Mystic, etc. can do that couldn't be more easily done by the super-tech we have in SF.
I know there's a one-off line in the Tech section about how "most tech except for the simplest items incorporates magic," but as long as it's not elaborated on, I can't really get a feel for it.
So what is your opinion of the relationship of tech and magic in SF in general, then?
But what about the actual magic? Does it follow Clarke's law, inverted: "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from from technology?"
I mean, I know a few cool things that have been done with this in modules (water elemental bound in cistern as controller and guard, etc.), but what about the setting in general?
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How much money do you think commoners make? Do you think it is enough? I am mostly posting this because of the Ultimate Campaign line that says "50 gp for a potion is too much for a commoner," when actually, this has been disproved since 3.5 (look up the now famous D&D Commoners Make Plenty of Money GIANTITP thread.)
Is there something you regret reading/watching? Be it a book, movie, comic, anime what-have-you.
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But what about the actual magic? Does it follow Clarke's law, inverted: "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from from technology?"
I mean, I know a few cool things that have been done with this in modules (water elemental bound in cistern as controller and guard, etc.), but what about the setting in general?
Sure, why not?
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How much money do you think commoners make? Do you think it is enough? I am mostly posting this because of the Ultimate Campaign line that says "50 gp for a potion is too much for a commoner," when actually, this has been disproved since 3.5 (look up the now famous D&D Commoners Make Plenty of Money GIANTITP thread.)
I'm not too worried about it, as long as there's commoners around to give the world the background verisimilitude it needs to let adventures happen without being distracting.
If you or anyone else is worried, then you can run the numbers yourself using the Earn Income activity detailed in the core rulebook, I suppose. But keep in mind that Pathfinder was built to be a game to support adventurers going on quests, not commoners scraping by.
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Is there something you regret reading/watching? Be it a book, movie, comic, anime what-have-you.
Sure, plenty of things. Not gonna list them here, because...
...I'm not a fan of publicly shaming other people's art, and...
...I don't want to give those things the free advertising by mentioning them.
How does the Golemworks in Magnimar, well, work? It seems to me that construct-making in general is too time/skill-intensive to make profitable in the way that the Golemworks is doing it. Also, how does Alkenstar make its clockworks if they are in a dead-magic zone?
PS: On the topic of "average man wealth", like you, I don't think PF should focus on the economy, which is a purely voodoo subject anyways in a fantasy world, but the hyperinflation of items just for adventures can break versimilitude, is all I'm saying.
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How does the Golemworks in Magnimar, well, work? It seems to me that construct-making in general is too time/skill-intensive to make profitable in the way that the Golemworks is doing it. Also, how does Alkenstar make its clockworks if they are in a dead-magic zone?
PS: On the topic of "average man wealth", like you, I don't think PF should focus on the economy, which is a purely voodoo subject anyways in a fantasy world, but the hyperinflation of items just for adventures can break versimilitude, is all I'm saying.
The Golemworks is as much a workshop as it is a laboratory/place of learning. Plus golems are expensive; they don't need to make a lot to make a profit.
And Alkenstar isn't in a dead-magic zone. It's just unstable magic.
How does the Golemworks in Magnimar, well, work? It seems to me that construct-making in general is too time/skill-intensive to make profitable in the way that the Golemworks is doing it. Also, how does Alkenstar make its clockworks if they are in a dead-magic zone?
PS: On the topic of "average man wealth", like you, I don't think PF should focus on the economy, which is a purely voodoo subject anyways in a fantasy world, but the hyperinflation of items just for adventures can break versimilitude, is all I'm saying.
The Golemworks is as much a workshop as it is a laboratory/place of learning. Plus golems are expensive; they don't need to make a lot to make a profit.
And Alkenstar isn't in a dead-magic zone. It's just unstable magic.
But if you, in universe, were to order a construct (I know you can do this, since there was a PFS module revolving entirely around this) then how long would it take? Do they have some special method of having more than one caster work on it to speed them up?
Also, what exactly does unstable magic mean? Does it just mean that you can't cast magic well and it has no effect on items? Then why hasn't Nex or Geb or Taldor just send in a rogue armed with a few potions of invisibility to steal their gun secrets?
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But if you, in universe, were to order a construct (I know you can do this, since there was a PFS module revolving entirely around this) then how long would it take? Do they have some special method of having more than one caster work on it to speed them up?
Also, what exactly does unstable magic mean? Does it just mean that you can't cast magic well and it has no effect on items? Then why hasn't Nex or Geb or Taldor just send in a rogue armed with a few potions of invisibility to steal their gun secrets?
In 1st edition, the time it takes to build a construct is in the rules, and I don't know them by heart so go ahead and check out the Craft Construct feat and item crafting rules.
In 2nd edition we haven't yet explored construct creation at all so there's no rules there yet.
What "unstable magic" means is what is written about it in Inner Sea Magic; it's magic that if you fail to concentrate on ends up having a weird random side-effect.
Nex and Geb and Taldor have other things to do, and there's a lot of defenses in place at Alkenstar other than "magic is weird." Also, the "go steal gun secrets" seems like a good adventure hook, either with the PCs doing the secret stealing or working to stop it. It's not fun to "waste" potentially good story ideas on background text, but that doesn't mean we'll never use such a story. We can only do so many adventures at a time.
But if you, in universe, were to order a construct (I know you can do this, since there was a PFS module revolving entirely around this) then how long would it take? Do they have some special method of having more than one caster work on it to speed them up?
Also, what exactly does unstable magic mean? Does it just mean that you can't cast magic well and it has no effect on items? Then why hasn't Nex or Geb or Taldor just send in a rogue armed with a few potions of invisibility to steal their gun secrets?
In 1st edition, the time it takes to build a construct is in the rules, and I don't know them by heart so go ahead and check out the Craft Construct feat and item crafting rules.
In 2nd edition we haven't yet explored construct creation at all so there's no rules there yet.
What "unstable magic" means is what is written about it in Inner Sea Magic; it's magic that if you fail to concentrate on ends up having a weird random side-effect.
Nex and Geb and Taldor have other things to do, and there's a lot of defenses in place at Alkenstar other than "magic is weird." Also, the "go steal gun secrets" seems like a good adventure hook, either with the PCs doing the secret stealing or working to stop it. It's not fun to "waste" potentially good story ideas on background text, but that doesn't mean we'll never use such a story. We can only do so many adventures at a time.
Well, in any case, the new lore of Alkenstar kind of the whole exercise of "steal gun secrets" a moot point since most of the stuff is now going to be in more-or-less open circulation.
One more question though: what is the most cool way technology and magic could interact with each other that you can think of?
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One more question though: what is the most cool way technology and magic could interact with each other that you can think of?
By having an AI become a god and granting spells to clerics. AKA: Check out Iron Gods for that and lots of other ways magic and tech interact in fun ways.
One more question though: what is the most cool way technology and magic could interact with each other that you can think of?By having an AI become a god and granting spells to clerics. AKA: Check out Iron Gods for that and lots of other ways magic and tech interact in fun ways.
Here's mine: Greyhawk 2000 from Dragon 277.
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Here's mine: Greyhawk 2000 from Dragon 277.One more question though: what is the most cool way technology and magic could interact with each other that you can think of?By having an AI become a god and granting spells to clerics. AKA: Check out Iron Gods for that and lots of other ways magic and tech interact in fun ways.
Please remember that this thread's for asking me questions. I don't mind the back and forth discussion, but it should always have a question involved.
My question, James, is what is *your* question? :)
Fair enough.
How would you craft the backstory for a Monk PC starting Rise of the Runelords? Specifically, how and where might he have learned Monkish things, and why might he subsequently come to Sandpoint? Not asking for a full story, just a hint or two. :-)
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Fair enough.
How would you craft the backstory for a Monk PC starting Rise of the Runelords? Specifically, how and where might he have learned Monkish things, and why might he subsequently come to Sandpoint? Not asking for a full story, just a hint or two. :-)
I made sure to include NPCs for all of the core classes (and several non-core classes) in Sandpoint. For monks, that's the House of Blue Stones, so I'd start there.
Which god*ess in the Golarion Pantheon(s) is in your opinion closest to Greyhawk/Oerths Olidammara?
My question, James, is what is *your* question? :)I've got plenty, but this isn't the "James Asks Questions" thread so it's as inappropriate for me to ask them here as it is for others to post non-question stuff here, right?
LOL. Glad to see your wits are not suffering too much from isolation sickness, or are they?
In all seriousness I do have a question regarding Pathfinder.
How does the magical aspect of things work between a god and a cleric? Faith is the foundation sure, but how does the god give the spells? Does a deity need a divine source of power, is the divinity the source? Is the deity a mental focus and it's the mortal's faith that is, in reality, the alpha and the omega of the spell? Something else? What then?
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LOL. Glad to see your wits are not suffering too much from isolation sickness, or are they?My question, James, is what is *your* question? :)I've got plenty, but this isn't the "James Asks Questions" thread so it's as inappropriate for me to ask them here as it is for others to post non-question stuff here, right?
The wits are doing okay. It's other parts that suffer.
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In all seriousness I do have a question regarding Pathfinder.
How does the magical aspect of things work between a god and a cleric? Faith is the foundation sure, but how does the god give the spells? Does a deity need a divine source of power, is the divinity the source? Is the deity a mental focus and it's the mortal's faith that is, in reality, the alpha and the omega of the spell? Something else? What then?
It's not 100% spelled out intentionally. By keeping the process somewhat mysterious, that helps to keep it feeling more like faith than science. Furthermore, deities themselves don't use rules, so any attempt to quantify exactly how a deity gives a cleric spells is kind of pointless since you can't quantify the deity side of things. So we just quantify the cleric side, which means you need to worship a deity that's not dead. The source of the power is the cleric's deity, but the engine that allows the cleric to harness that power is the cleric's faith. Without faith, the cleric can't use the power granted by a deity, and without a deity, the cleric's faith has no source of power.
Regardless of if it's a deity, a demigod, or a less powerful divinity (such as an elder deep one or a mythic character with the ability to grant spells), the act of granting spells to a cleric takes no actions at all. The divinity can grant any number of spells simultaneously... the exact maximum number it can grant is determined by however many clerics worship it in all of reality.
Very interesting, thanks. One thing I wonder still, the aforementioned ability to grant spells, is it automatically available to any divinity or is it something one such being must pursue?
Deep questions for a Friday afternoon.
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Very interesting, thanks. One thing I wonder still, the aforementioned ability to grant spells, is it automatically available to any divinity or is it something one such being must pursue?
Deep questions for a Friday afternoon.
It's automatic. The only thing that really is a requirement for a divinity is that they can grant spells. Everything else that can't isn't. There's no such thing as a non-divinity that can grant spells, and no such thing as a divinity that can't grant spells.
Doesn't mean you can't worship a non-divinity, but it does mean if you worship a non-divinity, you can't be a cleric. Your path to casting divine spells in that case is better represented by taking levels in a divine sorcerer or an oracle or a divine witch.
Do all divinities grant divine spells, and no spells of any of the other traditions?
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Would a suit of medium armor made from Noqual allow a character to wear it who does not have Medium Armor Proficiency?
It'd probably follow the same rules or similar rules that mithral armor does. See Core Rulebook page 556. That said, we haven't put noqual armor into 2nd edition yet, so who can say what the design team might do?
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I was actually asking in reference to 1st edition. Since it doesn't have the wording Mithril does, people seem to think that you can get an upgrade in class of armor just by paying for it
The rules for noqual armor in 1st edition are in Pathfinder #61. Copy/pasted here from Archives of Nethys:
Noqual armor weighs half as much as other armors of its type, and is treated as one category lighter than normal for the purposes of movement and other limitations (light armor is still treated as light armor, though). The armor’s maximum Dexterity bonus increases by 2, and armor check penalties are reduced by 3. The armor’s spell failure chance increases by 20% and applies to all magic cast while wearing the armor, regardless of the magic’s source or class abilities possessed by the wearer. The wearer of a suit of noqual armor gains a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
A suit of noqual light armor costs +4,000 gp, medium armor +8,000 gp, and heavy armor +12,000 gp.
Nowhere in there does it mention anything about changing what the armor counts as. So a suit of medium noqual armor is still medium armor. And as such still requires proficiency in Medium Armor, just like any other suit of medium armor that doesn't specifically call out an exception.
Are you doing anything to celebrate the fact it is Friday the 13th? (I'm watching Band of Bravos right now and you just referenced the movie)
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Why are the Pathfinder versions of all the Lewis Carroll monsters collectively referred to as "the Tane"? Where did that term come from?
Great job with those, by the way; the broad array of Bestiary adaptations of historical folklore/fiction monsters/things that could be monsters are some of the best things Pathfinder put out.
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Why are the Pathfinder versions of all the Lewis Carroll monsters collectively referred to as "the Tane"? Where did that term come from?
Great job with those, by the way; the broad array of Bestiary adaptations of historical folklore/fiction monsters/things that could be monsters are some of the best things Pathfinder put out.
Richard Pett invented the word back in "The Skinsaw Murders"; it has no actual link to Lewis Carroll other than being a made-up word.
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Very interesting, thanks. One thing I wonder still, the aforementioned ability to grant spells, is it automatically available to any divinity or is it something one such being must pursue?
Deep questions for a Friday afternoon.
It's automatic. The only thing that really is a requirement for a divinity is that they can grant spells. Everything else that can't isn't. There's no such thing as a non-divinity that can grant spells, and no such thing as a divinity that can't grant spells.
Doesn't mean you can't worship a non-divinity, but it does mean if you worship a non-divinity, you can't be a cleric. Your path to casting divine spells in that case is better represented by taking levels in a divine sorcerer or an oracle or a divine witch.
I may be a little thick...
What does a witch's patron or an oracle mystery do? What is the word that describes these that isn't "granting?"
Those don't "do" anything; they're like a sorcerer bloodline or a wizard's studies.
On the topic of magic and technology in worldbuilding (and games like Starfinder), what would be one example of a "background element" of the world's daily life that displays magic and technology working together?
Like, something special about them in daily life, (appliances, structures, architecture, etc.) so that it doesn't wind up like "standard sci-fi but with extra steps."
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On the topic of magic and technology in worldbuilding (and games like Starfinder), what would be one example of a "background element" of the world's daily life that displays magic and technology working together?
Like, something special about them in daily life, (appliances, structures, architecture, etc.) so that it doesn't wind up like "standard sci-fi but with extra steps."
That sort of thing isn't really a part of Pathfinder, but it's sort of the whole thing in Starfinder where the entire genre of that game is science-fantasy—a mix of magic and high-tech.
That said, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. Are you asking me to design a magical technological item? I try not to do design work in this thread because that's not answering questions—that's doing my day job when I'm not at work.
On the topic of magic and technology in worldbuilding (and games like Starfinder), what would be one example of a "background element" of the world's daily life that displays magic and technology working together?
Like, something special about them in daily life, (appliances, structures, architecture, etc.) so that it doesn't wind up like "standard sci-fi but with extra steps."
That sort of thing isn't really a part of Pathfinder, but it's sort of the whole thing in Starfinder where the entire genre of that game is science-fantasy—a mix of magic and high-tech.
That said, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. Are you asking me to design a magical technological item? I try not to do design work in this thread because that's not answering questions—that's doing my day job when I'm not at work.
No, I was more asking you to use your GM-description skills to describe how SF's "magic and tech" theme makes it different from generic sci-fi. Like, how would a SF commlink or a radio function differently from a 21st century phone or radio? As in, how does the latter use magic and tech together to accomplish its function as opposed to the electricity powered Earthling-smartphone?
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No, I was more asking you to use your GM-description skills to describe how SF's "magic and tech" theme makes it different from generic sci-fi. Like, how would a SF commlink or a radio function differently from a 21st century phone or radio? As in, how does the latter use magic and tech together to accomplish its function as opposed to the electricity powered Earthling-smartphone?
The easiest way, since this is an RPG, is to simply lean on auras. Describe the item however, but when the PCs use detect magic on a technological item, it won't radiate magic.
The functionality in rule is the same—the methodology for creating a balanced magic item is identical to making a balanced technological item. The best method to keep them apart, in my opinion, is that anything that can be a real world piece of technology should stay technological in a science fantasy setting, since that's what we expect. It's a gut feeling. An aesthetic one. What is cooler or less goofy to you on an item by item basis. For example, for me, a digitial wristwatch is more interesting as technology and kind of goofy as a magic item.
But down to how would a magic version of a computer, for example, work? Same way the technological one, but based on magic. How you describe it is up to you.
I'm not going to do a deep dive into creating free lore here for the flavor of how an internet powered by magic, or how a space ship created by magic, or how a refrigerator made as a magic item functions differently than the technological one, because that's beyond the scope of this thread. If I start doing creative design work here on one thing like that, then that opens up the floodgates for me potentially designing more and more, and that energy and inspiration is better put toward products and my personal writing than on a message board post.
No, I was more asking you to use your GM-description skills to describe how SF's "magic and tech" theme makes it different from generic sci-fi. Like, how would a SF commlink or a radio function differently from a 21st century phone or radio? As in, how does the latter use magic and tech together to accomplish its function as opposed to the electricity powered Earthling-smartphone?The easiest way, since this is an RPG, is to simply lean on auras. Describe the item however, but when the PCs use detect magic on a technological item, it won't radiate magic.
The functionality in rule is the same—the methodology for creating a balanced magic item is identical to making a balanced technological item. The best method to keep them apart, in my opinion, is that anything that can be a real world piece of technology should stay technological in a science fantasy setting, since that's what we expect. It's a gut feeling. An aesthetic one. What is cooler or less goofy to you on an item by item basis. For example, for me, a digitial wristwatch is more interesting as technology and kind of goofy as a magic item.
But down to how would a magic version of a computer, for example, work? Same way the technological one, but based on magic. How you describe it is up to you.
I'm not going to do a deep dive into creating free lore here for the flavor of how an internet powered by magic, or how a space ship created by magic, or how a refrigerator made as a magic item functions differently than the technological one, because that's beyond the scope of this thread. If I start doing creative design work here on one thing like that, then that opens up the floodgates for me potentially designing more and more, and that energy and inspiration is better put toward products and my personal writing than on a message board post.
So, essentially, the more "complex" an item is, the more it will incorporate magic?
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So, essentially, the more "complex" an item is, the more it will incorporate magic?
The definition of magic in fiction is that it can do anything the writer wants. Doesn't have to be complex, but if you use magic to make something simple, you're kinda either wasting your time or showing off.
(Not sure if this has been already asked, so apologies if so)
(These questions obviously relate to pre-Tyrant’s Grasp stuff) Something’s been bugging me since I started prepping for Tyrant’s Grasp: Why wouldn’t the Whispering Tyrant just destroy himself to get out of the Gallowspire? If he’s destroyed then he gets reformed by his phylactery (which I think we now canonically know to be on the Isle of Terror; but definitely not in the Gallowspire since he willingly blew that up).
Similarly, why wouldn’t Arazni just destroy herself to learn the location of her phylactery and then just destroy it?
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(Not sure if this has been already asked, so apologies if so)
(These questions obviously relate to pre-Tyrant’s Grasp stuff) Something’s been bugging me since I started prepping for Tyrant’s Grasp: Why wouldn’t the Whispering Tyrant just destroy himself to get out of the Gallowspire? If he’s destroyed then he gets reformed by his phylactery (which I think we now canonically know to be on the Isle of Terror; but definitely not in the Gallowspire since he willingly blew that up).
Similarly, why wouldn’t Arazni just destroy herself to learn the location of her phylactery and then just destroy it?
First off, no worries about asking questions that might have been asked already; this is a giant thread so chances are good, but chances are even better that it's tougher to track down the previous asking than just to ask fresh. ;-)
The Whispering Tyrant doesn't destroy himself because of the nature of his imprisonment; if he does so, he'll just show right back up where he started. This is a story-based exception to the generic lich rules, as the Whispering Tyrant is anything but a generic lich. Furthermore, he doesn't do that because his arrogance and hubris prevent him from considering that idea; he's a lich, and as such he's okay with being patient and waiting. He doesn't have to worry about dying of old age and running out of time.
As for Arazni, she didn't before because she was in a situation where, psychologically, she couldn't fathom taking that step. As she was essentially enslaved by Geb, fear of possible repercussions kept her from doing so. She's had a traumatic time since her death during the Shining Crusade, and it's taken her this long to recover from it enough to start to reclaim her own agency.
The events of Tyrant's Grasp are meant to shake both of these characters out of their status-quo, but in short, neither took this action because psychologically they weren't able to.
Though, I could see the situation being that Arazni was conditioned against dying “or else,” and after her destruction in Roslar’s Coffer she had a mental breakdown once she realized what had happened for just long enough for the Council Libertine to pick up the pieces and probably re-hide her phylactery.