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Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

My preference, which isn't the same as canon, since I don't make that decision on my own, would be:

Alaznist
Baba Yaga
Xanderghul
Sorshen
Jatembe
Tar Baphon
Nex
Geb
Karzoug
Zutha

WOW...I did not expect that ordering at all. Now I have to change and add on to the original follow on questions I was planning on asking. Thank you so much for answering that however, I was really expecting you not to.

So...that really begs the question, what about Alaznist is so interesting to you that you think she should be the quintessential big bad evil wizard of Golarion?

The fact that in Return of the Runelords...

Spoiler:
...she reaches the height of her power off-screen when she kills Xanderghul, then uses the Scepter of Ages to rework time while she's a tier 10 archmage, which pretty much, for that moment, lets her do whatever she wants.

You asked "at the height of their power" and in that case, the height of her power happens during the window of Return of the Runelords. You did not ask me who the "quintessential big bad evil wizard of Golarion" was. Alaznist is that during Return of the Runelords, but that answer changes during other adventure paths.


Is there a most powerful Sorcerer on Golarion(obviously someone is)(I don't know of any, or I'm overlooking them)? Who is it, and is it currently or planned to be a named character that will be a significant lore point of Golarion?


Would you be willing to give me you anticipated CR's, template options, and mythic status if any, of Nex and Geb if you had to stat them up right now?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

My preference, which isn't the same as canon, since I don't make that decision on my own, would be:

Alaznist
Baba Yaga
Xanderghul
Sorshen
Jatembe
Tar Baphon
Nex
Geb
Karzoug
Zutha

Would you be willing to answer that canonically? What I mean is, would you be willing to rank them in the order you understand them to be canonically positioned currently, allowing for the possibility that future official publication could alter that list?

No, because I'm sitting on my couch at home on a Saturday night, and don't have the full library of every book we've published or access to what other people might have planned for the future of the setting. It's not just up to me, so I can't answer it canonically.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:
Is there a most powerful Sorcerer on Golarion(obviously someone is)(I don't know of any, or I'm overlooking them)? Who is it, and is it currently or planned to be a named character that will be a significant lore point of Golarion?

To be honest, I try to avoid hyperbolic pronouncements like this. Saying who is the best at anything sets a ceiling that then we can't exceed without looking like we messed up. If I say Picklenose the Pauper is the most powerful sorcerer today, and then tomorrow I come up with a great idea for a story about an even more powerful sorcerer named Beetlebreath the Boastful, then I either have to abandon Beetlebreath's story or I have to invalidate what I've said already about Picklenose.

What someone COULD do is to scrub every single sorcerer stat block we've published and mentioned in print over the past 12 years or so and that'd reveal who the most powerful sorcerer is that we've yet mentioned, but I have no idea who that might be off the top of my head, because as mentioned above... that's not how my brain works when coming up with content for Golarion.

I'd rather not set limits to the potential stories I've not yet thought up by creating arbitrary boundaries, in other words. Sorry.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
Paizo drow are taller than humans, right? I can't remember if it was Paizo or D&D drow who were shorter than humans.
Elves (including drow) are a little taller than humans on average in Pathfinder. So are half orcs and half elves. Dwarves, halflings, and gnomes are shorter. Humans are in the middle intentionally.

Thank you, I figured that was the case, and I think it's a good idea.

Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts as to why in at least 3.5 D&D elves and drow were shorter than humans?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:
Would you be willing to give me you anticipated CR's, template options, and mythic status if any, of Nex and Geb if you had to stat them up right now?

Nope. Because again, we haven't started work on their stories, so we don't have those exact details nailed down yet. Furthermore, they're not NPCs I invented; they were both created by Erik, so whatever we do with them, he gets to have a say before we say in print. Including here online. Sorry.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:


Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts as to why in at least 3.5 D&D elves and drow were shorter than humans?

Because they were in prior editions of D&D.

Why were they shorter in prior editions? Probably because one definition of the word "elf" is "a small person."


James Jacobs wrote:
AshVandal wrote:
Is there a most powerful Sorcerer on Golarion(obviously someone is)(I don't know of any, or I'm overlooking them)? Who is it, and is it currently or planned to be a named character that will be a significant lore point of Golarion?

To be honest, I try to avoid hyperbolic pronouncements like this. Saying who is the best at anything sets a ceiling that then we can't exceed without looking like we messed up. If I say Picklenose the Pauper is the most powerful sorcerer today, and then tomorrow I come up with a great idea for a story about an even more powerful sorcerer named Beetlebreath the Boastful, then I either have to abandon Beetlebreath's story or I have to invalidate what I've said already about Picklenose.

What someone COULD do is to scrub every single sorcerer stat block we've published and mentioned in print over the past 12 years or so and that'd reveal who the most powerful sorcerer is that we've yet mentioned, but I have no idea who that might be off the top of my head, because as mentioned above... that's not how my brain works when coming up with content for Golarion.

I'd rather not set limits to the potential stories I've not yet thought up by creating arbitrary boundaries, in other words. Sorry.

I will try to rephrase, as this is not how I intended the question, although I suspect the answer remains the same. Rather is there a canonical sorcerer that you know of that currently shares a similar level of worldwide respect, infamy, or renown as the likes of Baba Yaga, Xanderghul, Tar-Baphon or Jatembe?


James Jacobs wrote:

My preference [for ranking spellcasters], which isn't the same as canon, since I don't make that decision on my own, would be:

Alaznist
Baba Yaga
(etc.)

Wait, more powerful than CR 30, in-the-same-weight-class-as-Cthulhu, can't-kill-her-without-permission, somehow-more-powerful-than-most-demigods Baba Yaga? How so?

Dark Archive

So Cadrilkasta the blue wyrm and Cadrilkasta the dragon who has Kazavon's horns, are they two different dragons with same name or same dragon? I'm bit confused since former's original lair was in Belkzen before she moved to Hungry Mountains and latter is mentioned to have horns hidden in hoard at sea cliffs of Razmiran. So like, is one of these information incorrect, its two different dragon, or does Cadrilkasta maintain an additional secret hoard outside of her main lair?


I didn't have any trouble with the dialog(except Hugo, who I thought was miscast anyway) but what did you think of Alita herself as a character and Rosa Salazar performance as Alita?


What dialog for Alita Battle Angel bothered you?


For Alita Battle Angel, what are your favorite action scenes? Favorite non-action scenes?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:


I will try to rephrase, as this is not how I intended the question, although I suspect the answer remains the same. Rather is there a canonical sorcerer that you know of that currently shares a similar level of worldwide respect, infamy, or renown as the likes of Baba Yaga, Xanderghul, Tar-Baphon or Jatembe?

None come to mind off the top of my head.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

My preference [for ranking spellcasters], which isn't the same as canon, since I don't make that decision on my own, would be:

Alaznist
Baba Yaga
(etc.)

Wait, more powerful than CR 30, in-the-same-weight-class-as-Cthulhu, can't-kill-her-without-permission, somehow-more-powerful-than-most-demigods Baba Yaga? How so?

Once again... the original question asked "At the height of their power, not the average."

For Alaznist... (Return of the Runelords spoiler)...

Spoiler:
At the point where she kills Xanderghul and goes back in time, she's a 20th level evoker/archmage tier 10 with several artifacts, including the Scepter of Ages, which allows her to rework history. During that moment, she is more powerful than Baba Yaga, who does not have the ability to change the past to remake the present to suit her needs. Time travel breaks all sorts of rules, including the expectations of what a CR 30 creature can do.

And these sorts of confused responses are a great example and object lesson as to why I generally dislike answering "who is most powerful" type questions. I should have listened to my instincts and said "Dunno, who do YOU think is more powerful? Start a separate thread to talk about it with others, perhaps?"

At least I said it was a non-canonical answer.

And that means that my new answer is different, and I'm not gonna say what it is. :-P

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CorvusMask wrote:
So Cadrilkasta the blue wyrm and Cadrilkasta the dragon who has Kazavon's horns, are they two different dragons with same name or same dragon? I'm bit confused since former's original lair was in Belkzen before she moved to Hungry Mountains and latter is mentioned to have horns hidden in hoard at sea cliffs of Razmiran. So like, is one of these information incorrect, its two different dragon, or does Cadrilkasta maintain an additional secret hoard outside of her main lair?

Where did we say Cadrilkasta had Kazavon's horns?

That's likely a case of poor research on my part before using a named NPC and not searching every single product we've done for her name to make sure we didn't say something unintentional in print in some book I'm not familiar with.

My preference is to use the information in Shattered Star as canonical for that AP, in any case.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Dragon78 wrote:
I didn't have any trouble with the dialog(except Hugo, who I thought was miscast anyway) but what did you think of Alita herself as a character and Rosa Salazar performance as Alita?

I thought Alita was really cool, and Rosa did a GREAT job with the performance, but I was bothered by the cliches of the storyline she had to play through.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Dragon78 wrote:
What dialog for Alita Battle Angel bothered you?

Pretty much all of it bothered me. It didn't feel like real dialogue spoken by real people, but cheesy movie dialogue that only existed to be exposition to tell, not show, the plot.

Spoiler:
The trope of the hero/heroine who can't remember her past. The angsty bad-boy romantic interest who she falls in love with despite the fact that he's an awful mutilator/thief of cybernetic parts. The soft-spoken father figure who's a secret warrior. The fact that what diversity there was got regulated to supporting roles. The ridiculous choices that the bad-boy romantic interest kept making to put things in peril. The convenience of how most of the set pieces got set up reeked of "This is the most efficient way to do pack all this story into a movie rather than let it evolve more naturally over the course of a longer format." I could go on, but I'd rather not.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Dragon78 wrote:
For Alita Battle Angel, what are your favorite action scenes? Favorite non-action scenes?

Spoiler:
Favorite action scene was the one in the underworld where Alita got to drop the F-bomb, and got chopped into pieces; following the scene where the scrappy little dog got killed, these two plot points were pretty much the only ones that felt like risks taken and thus propelled forward interesting story beats, plus they were points where the story finally felt like it was trying to be more mature and less sanitized family-fun entertainment.

Favorite non-action scene... hmmm. None come to mind. There were plenty of amazing visuals, but none that was heads above the rest and stayed memorable in my mind.

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
So Cadrilkasta the blue wyrm and Cadrilkasta the dragon who has Kazavon's horns, are they two different dragons with same name or same dragon? I'm bit confused since former's original lair was in Belkzen before she moved to Hungry Mountains and latter is mentioned to have horns hidden in hoard at sea cliffs of Razmiran. So like, is one of these information incorrect, its two different dragon, or does Cadrilkasta maintain an additional secret hoard outside of her main lair?

Where did we say Cadrilkasta had Kazavon's horns?

That's likely a case of poor research on my part before using a named NPC and not searching every single product we've done for her name to make sure we didn't say something unintentional in print in some book I'm not familiar with.

My preference is to use the information in Shattered Star as canonical for that AP, in any case.

Cadrilkalsta having Howling Horn was from 3.5 Crimson Throne Seven Relics of Kazavon article (and in Artifacts and Legends too), though the 3.5 version claims she was green dragon.(artifacts and legends doesn't specify the color)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CorvusMask wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
So Cadrilkasta the blue wyrm and Cadrilkasta the dragon who has Kazavon's horns, are they two different dragons with same name or same dragon? I'm bit confused since former's original lair was in Belkzen before she moved to Hungry Mountains and latter is mentioned to have horns hidden in hoard at sea cliffs of Razmiran. So like, is one of these information incorrect, its two different dragon, or does Cadrilkasta maintain an additional secret hoard outside of her main lair?

Where did we say Cadrilkasta had Kazavon's horns?

That's likely a case of poor research on my part before using a named NPC and not searching every single product we've done for her name to make sure we didn't say something unintentional in print in some book I'm not familiar with.

My preference is to use the information in Shattered Star as canonical for that AP, in any case.

Cadrilkalsta having Howling Horn was from 3.5 Crimson Throne Seven Relics of Kazavon article (and in Artifacts and Legends too), though the 3.5 version claims she was green dragon.(artifacts and legends doesn't specify the color)

Ah; that makes a bit more sense then. The 3.5 info is outdated in this case. Consider the actual location of the horns of Kazavon to be a mystery for now.


James Jacobs wrote:
AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

My preference [for ranking spellcasters], which isn't the same as canon, since I don't make that decision on my own, would be:

Alaznist
Baba Yaga
(etc.)

Wait, more powerful than CR 30, in-the-same-weight-class-as-Cthulhu, can't-kill-her-without-permission, somehow-more-powerful-than-most-demigods Baba Yaga? How so?

Once again... the original question asked "At the height of their power, not the average."

For Alaznist... (Return of the Runelords spoiler)...

** spoiler omitted **

And these sorts of confused responses are a great example and object lesson as to why I generally dislike answering "who is most powerful" type questions. I should have listened to my instincts and said "Dunno, who do YOU think is more powerful? Start a separate thread to talk about it with others, perhaps?"

At least I said it was a non-canonical answer.

And that means that my new answer is different, and I'm not gonna say what it is. :-P

Well you craftily evaded giving the information that I most wanted, though you still narrowed down things substantially. The intent of the question was to try and bracket Nex and Geb's approximate power-level, since I read a past post where you stated you believed Nex would win in a straight up mage-duel against Geb. I was hoping that by providing a known spectrum of powerful individuals, one known character might separate the two. I was actually assuming Alaznist would be in between, or at least be directly below or directly above. I assumed you would use her published statblock for comparison, not an off-screen version we've never seen. Also, ranking Tar-Baphon (CR26) above and Karzoug(CR21) below actually leaves substantial room for future development.

I'm also surprised that you ranked Jatembe above Tar-Baphon. TB is listed as a CR 26 creature where as Jatembe is listed as CR 24. That leads me to believe you obviously value Archmage tiers above mythic ranks even with unique powers, and that concept actually helps me understand the design of mythic tiers vs rank way better than I think I previously did.

Q: You've stated you have a statblock for Xanderghul at full-power in your possession that you've never published. Did you also stat up Alaznist at full power such as you've described?

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
So Cadrilkasta the blue wyrm and Cadrilkasta the dragon who has Kazavon's horns, are they two different dragons with same name or same dragon? I'm bit confused since former's original lair was in Belkzen before she moved to Hungry Mountains and latter is mentioned to have horns hidden in hoard at sea cliffs of Razmiran. So like, is one of these information incorrect, its two different dragon, or does Cadrilkasta maintain an additional secret hoard outside of her main lair?

Where did we say Cadrilkasta had Kazavon's horns?

That's likely a case of poor research on my part before using a named NPC and not searching every single product we've done for her name to make sure we didn't say something unintentional in print in some book I'm not familiar with.

My preference is to use the information in Shattered Star as canonical for that AP, in any case.

Cadrilkalsta having Howling Horn was from 3.5 Crimson Throne Seven Relics of Kazavon article (and in Artifacts and Legends too), though the 3.5 version claims she was green dragon.(artifacts and legends doesn't specify the color)
Ah; that makes a bit more sense then. The 3.5 info is outdated in this case. Consider the actual location of the horns of Kazavon to be a mystery for now.

Hmm, do you think it could work if "Cadrilkalsta" mentioned in 3.5 or Artifacts and Legends is different dragon? Or if instead of it being in lair in Razmiran's sea cliffs,(...wait, does Razmiran even have sea, I think it was bordering a lake), it is at her lair at Hungry Mountains?

I mean, I don't really see anything wrong with Cardikalsta hoarding artifacts and after her death, her lair in Hungry Mountain would still be lost and not found.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:

I'm also surprised that you ranked Jatembe above Tar-Baphon. TB is listed as a CR 26 creature where as Jatembe is listed as CR 24. That leads me to believe you obviously value Archmage tiers above mythic ranks even with unique powers, and that concept actually helps me understand the design of mythic tiers vs rank way better than I think I previously did.

Q: You've stated you have a statblock for Xanderghul at full-power in your possession that you've never published. Did you also stat up Alaznist at full power such as you've described?

No, it means that I didn't remember off the top of my head what CR they pegged Jatembe at. I wasn't involved that much in Mythic Realms' design or development, which is another reason I qualified my list as being not-canonical and my own list.

I didn't stat up Alaznist at full power, because that's a lot of work for something that doesn't have any "on screen" time and would require a lot of extraneous design to spell out in game rules exactly how all that time travel stuff happens. I chose instead to leave that off-screen and drive the plot rather than be stuff that the PCs deal with.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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CorvusMask wrote:

Hmm, do you think it could work if "Cadrilkalsta" mentioned in 3.5 or Artifacts and Legends is different dragon? Or if instead of it being in lair in Razmiran's sea cliffs,(...wait, does Razmiran even have sea, I think it was bordering a lake), it is at her lair at Hungry Mountains?

I mean, I don't really see anything wrong with Cardikalsta hoarding artifacts and after her death, her lair in Hungry Mountain would still be lost and not found.

Feel free to have whichever version you prefer be canonical for your game. I've told the Cadrilkasta story I wanted to tell in Shattered Star, and the Kazavon story in Curse of the Crimson Throne, and don't have plans or intentions of doing more with them in the forseeable future, which means further repercussions are left to individual GMs.


James Jacobs wrote:
AshVandal wrote:

I'm also surprised that you ranked Jatembe above Tar-Baphon. TB is listed as a CR 26 creature where as Jatembe is listed as CR 24. That leads me to believe you obviously value Archmage tiers above mythic ranks even with unique powers, and that concept actually helps me understand the design of mythic tiers vs rank way better than I think I previously did.

Q: You've stated you have a statblock for Xanderghul at full-power in your possession that you've never published. Did you also stat up Alaznist at full power such as you've described?

No, it means that I didn't remember off the top of my head what CR they pegged Jatembe at. I wasn't involved that much in Mythic Realms' design or development, which is another reason I qualified my list as being not-canonical and my own list.

I didn't stat up Alaznist at full power, because that's a lot of work for something that doesn't have any "on screen" time and would require a lot of extraneous design to spell out in game rules exactly how all that time travel stuff happens. I chose instead to leave that off-screen and drive the plot rather than be stuff that the PCs deal with.

Oh, well in that case, would you be willing to revise that list? :P

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AshVandal wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
AshVandal wrote:

I'm also surprised that you ranked Jatembe above Tar-Baphon. TB is listed as a CR 26 creature where as Jatembe is listed as CR 24. That leads me to believe you obviously value Archmage tiers above mythic ranks even with unique powers, and that concept actually helps me understand the design of mythic tiers vs rank way better than I think I previously did.

Q: You've stated you have a statblock for Xanderghul at full-power in your possession that you've never published. Did you also stat up Alaznist at full power such as you've described?

No, it means that I didn't remember off the top of my head what CR they pegged Jatembe at. I wasn't involved that much in Mythic Realms' design or development, which is another reason I qualified my list as being not-canonical and my own list.

I didn't stat up Alaznist at full power, because that's a lot of work for something that doesn't have any "on screen" time and would require a lot of extraneous design to spell out in game rules exactly how all that time travel stuff happens. I chose instead to leave that off-screen and drive the plot rather than be stuff that the PCs deal with.

Oh, well in that case, would you be willing to revise that list? :P

For characters we've printed stats for, I'll leave it to those who have faster access to all those stats than I do to compile a by-CR list.

Frankly... ALL of those characters are powerful enough to do whatever story you want to do with them, so knowing the exact details of who is and isn't as powerful is not only kinda pointless... but also depending on the situation, highly variable. Sorry that's not the answer you're looking for.


Hi James! I hope you've been well!

Since male harpies are now confirmed to exist, what would you say their roles are like in harpy society (such as it is) in comparison to the females? Are they rarer than the females?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Varisian Wanderer wrote:

Hi James! I hope you've been well!

Since male harpies are now confirmed to exist, what would you say their roles are like in harpy society (such as it is) in comparison to the females? Are they rarer than the females?

They're not rarer. Harpy society is pretty much "whoever's toughest is in charge of the nest" be they female or male.


Minor Sorshen lore I'm a bit surprised wasn't revealed: whatever became of Kusasfa? i.e., Sorshen's favorite consort, who was mentioned in Curse of the Crimson Throne as having broke out of his coffin.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Hey James, how is the weather out in your area today?


What are the age categories or average lifespan of an aphorite?


Good morning Mr Jacobs,

I'd like to know if there is any lore/setting rationale for clerics channeling positive/negative energy.

What I mean is, I understand clerics have always been healers and it'd be counterproductive to not at least give them the tools to play that role. I did wonder though if you guys have ever thought of an in-world reason why clerics channel positive and negative energy. The gods are so varied in goals and methods, yet all their main servants share this special ability (some archetypes excluded).

What am I not seeing?

Thank you Mr Jacobs,

R-

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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AlgaeNymph wrote:
Minor Sorshen lore I'm a bit surprised wasn't revealed: whatever became of Kusasfa? i.e., Sorshen's favorite consort, who was mentioned in Curse of the Crimson Throne as having broke out of his coffin.

Unrevealed.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Hey James, how is the weather out in your area today?

Clear skies with a few clouds and pretty cold.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
What are the age categories or average lifespan of an aphorite?

I'd prefer if they were akin to other planar scions, which are comparable to human age categories.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Roswynn wrote:

Good morning Mr Jacobs,

I'd like to know if there is any lore/setting rationale for clerics channeling positive/negative energy.

What I mean is, I understand clerics have always been healers and it'd be counterproductive to not at least give them the tools to play that role. I did wonder though if you guys have ever thought of an in-world reason why clerics channel positive and negative energy. The gods are so varied in goals and methods, yet all their main servants share this special ability (some archetypes excluded).

What am I not seeing?

Thank you Mr Jacobs,

R-

Positive and negative energy are themselves unaligned, but positive energy heals the living and hurts the undead, while negative energy hurts living creatures and heals undead.

Since undead are pretty much ALWAYS evil in Pathfinder, with a very rare few exceptions so as to not be statistically relevant, that means those who use negative energy generally do so to hurt people and bolster undead, while those who use positive energy generally do so to save lives and defeat undead.

Saving lives and defeating undeath are good acts.

Bolstering undead and hurting people are evil acts.

Therefore, good clerics channel positive energy, evil ones channel negative, and neutral ones have to decide which they prefer.


James Jacobs wrote:

Positive and negative energy are themselves unaligned, but positive energy heals the living and hurts the undead, while negative energy hurts living creatures and heals undead.

Since undead are pretty much ALWAYS evil in Pathfinder, with a very rare few exceptions so as to not be statistically relevant, that means those who use negative energy generally do so to hurt people and bolster undead, while those who use positive energy generally do so to save lives and defeat undead.

Saving lives and defeating undeath are good acts.

Bolstering undead and hurting people are evil acts.

Therefore, good clerics channel positive energy, evil ones channel negative, and neutral ones have to decide which they prefer.

Thank you for your answer, Mr Jacobs.

Cheers!

R-


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Hello again, Mr Jacobs,

I thought of a related question I have:

Why precisely healing people and destroying undead/harming people and bolstering undead, though?

I mean: of course clerics channel Positive or Negative energy - because that's a big part of what clerics are all about since 3e (they healed people and turned undead in 1e/BECMI too afaik, so there was no reason to change it, just refine it) -

BUT

- In-universe, since the gods (and the dozens of demigods and quasi-deities) are so varied in their interests, why do they all grant the same power to their clerics, i.e. to channel Positive/Negative energy? What's the lore motivation for that, what would a cleric, or a demigod, or even a deity if you could talk to them, tell you?

For instance, say I'm a cleric of Desna, and I have the fortune to visit Cynosure and get some precious moments with her, and I ask her: "My Lady, why instead of healing people and turning undead don't you allow me and your other clerics to harm fiends and outsiders from Axis, guide travellers to their destinations, protect their dreams and sleep, bring luck to good people and destroy curses?" (Considering those are already included in her domains but in my opinion you can't have too much of a good thing, and they're all abilities that fit more than healing and turning undead with Desna's interests, backstory and character).

To reiterate: of course clerics heal and harm undead, that's part of their historical roles and only a couple archetypes and an optional rule afaik change that, BUT, on Golarion, in the setting, how do people justify this, why do they think that's the case, or even better, why do the gods grant this power (barring that it's needed for gameplay) and not something more appropriate to each of them?

I hope I'm not giving you a headache, Mr Jacobs. I'm a huge fan of Golarion and of Pathfinder and Paizo in general, and I'm honestly curious about these matters - they're very interesting in my opinion, and it would be great for me to have an answer (I've thought about it and come to some half-baked conclusions but I'd really love to know your opinion in these regards!).

Thank you again for your time,

Cheers!

R-


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Do you ever read the threads for "next bestiary wish lists" or speculation on the next AP etc.?

Have you ever done a product based on one of those threads?

Shadow Lodge

Thematically, what is it about undeath (and death effects) that prevents raise dead and reincarnate from working, even after the undead creature has been destroyed? How does resurrection get past this limitation?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Roswynn wrote:
...wrote a wall of text.

I suggest you check out Planar Adventures, in particular, pages 64–69, which detail the River of Souls and the cycle of life, death, and afterlife, and how undeath causes a destructive element to this cycle.

And also look at most stories about undead. Yeah, there are some where they are portrayed as good people, but by and large undeath is portrayed as something that is inimical to life itself, and thus bad.

The lore reason as to why clerics (and other classes, remember, it's not JUST clerics) get the ability to manipulate the raw energies of life and undeath and death via channeled energy is because this is something that supports those classes' role of manipulating life and death. These classes heal people, cure diseases, restore the dead to life, create undead, control undead, and so on as a primary element of their theme. Yeah, other classes dabble, but the cleric (and similar classes) is the one that specializes in it.

Overall, undeath and its threats are a much more common threat to the Material Plane than are demons or devils or other outsiders. Even so, there's plenty of options out there if you want to build a crusader against demons or the like, be it a cleric option or otherwise. But those are options, not the core assumed theme of being guardians or manipulators of the energies of life and death.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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j b 200 wrote:

Do you ever read the threads for "next bestiary wish lists" or speculation on the next AP etc.?

Have you ever done a product based on one of those threads?

I do, now and then, but not nearly as much as I used to, since there's too much toxicity out there on the internet these days and for my own peace of mind and sense of self-worth I tend to be a lot more quick to abandon threads when I start hitting poison posts.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Serum wrote:
Thematically, what is it about undeath (and death effects) that prevents raise dead and reincarnate from working, even after the undead creature has been destroyed? How does resurrection get past this limitation?

Life and death are opposites. Undeath is an opposition (aka corruption) of both in equal measure, and just as undeath can cause the living to get disrupted from their trip to the afterlife by "stranding" a soul on the Material Plane, it also disrupts the trip from the afterlife to life as well.

Lower level effects like raise dead are simply not powerful enough to overcome this opposing force.

That said, in most cases, if you destroy an undead creature, it in theory CAN be brought back to life. Raise dead, though, needs a relatively intact body, and in many cases, what remains behind after a body is undead for a long time isn't intact enough. Further, the time since the living body died doesn't "reset" when its undead version is destroyed. Raise dead is limited in that it can only restore life to the recently dead, so if a person dies on day 1, becomes undead on day 2, and then is destroyed again on day 40, then there's not much raise dead can do, since raise dead only works on a body that has been dead no longer than 1 day per caster level, and the undead in this case is destroyed and produces a body that's been dead 40 days. You'd need a caster level of 40 to restore this person to life, and that's not really something you can do in the game barring GM intervention or the use of other products beyond what we produce. It's NOT beyond the capacity of resurrection, though, which is capable of restoring to life a body that's been dead up to 10 years per caster level.

Death effects are their own thing. They actively resist allowing less powerful effects and attempts to raise the dead as part of what they are. Resurrection gets past this simply because it's more powerful than raise dead.

Shadow Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
That said, in most cases, if you destroy an undead creature, it in theory CAN be brought back to life. Raise dead, though, needs a relatively intact body, and in many cases, what remains behind after a body is undead for a long time isn't intact enough. Further, the time since the living body died doesn't "reset" when its undead version is destroyed. Raise dead is limited in that it can only restore life to the recently dead, so if a person dies on day 1, becomes undead on day 2, and then is destroyed again on day 40, then there's not much raise dead can do, since raise dead only works on a body that has been dead no longer than 1 day per caster level, and the undead in this case is destroyed and produces a body that's been dead 40 days. You'd need a caster level of 40 to restore this person to life, and that's not really something you can do in the game barring GM intervention or the use of other products beyond what we produce. It's NOT beyond the capacity of resurrection, though, which is capable of restoring to life a body that's been dead up to 10 years per caster level.

So, it's more that, once destroyed, most undead have been 'dead' for long enough that the body is not intact and/or past the time limit set by the spells, and not anything specific to undeath.

If someone, for example, died on day one, rose as a wight or a juju zombie on day 2, and was destroyed on day 3, one would be able to use raise dead or reincarnate successfully on day 3, since those undead have mostly intact corpses, or does the process of destroying most undead not leave a mostly intact corpse? Would a creature that had risen as a skeleton be available to be raised using those lower level magics, or is that corpse no longer intact?


James Jacobs wrote:

I suggest you check out Planar Adventures, in particular, pages 64–69, which detail the River of Souls and the cycle of life, death, and afterlife, and how undeath causes a destructive element to this cycle.

And also look at most stories about undead. Yeah, there are some where they are portrayed as good people, but by and large undeath is portrayed as something that is inimical to life itself, and thus bad.

The lore reason as to why clerics (and other classes, remember, it's not JUST clerics) get the ability to manipulate the raw energies of life and undeath and death via channeled energy is because this is something that supports those classes' role of manipulating life and death. These classes heal people, cure diseases, restore the dead to life, create undead, control undead, and so on as a primary element of their theme. Yeah, other classes dabble, but the cleric (and similar classes) is the one that specializes in it.

Overall, undeath and its threats are a much more common threat to the Material Plane than are demons or devils or other outsiders. Even so, there's plenty of options out there if you want to build a crusader against demons or the like, be it a cleric option or otherwise. But those are options, not the core assumed theme of being guardians or manipulators of the energies of life and death.

Yeah, I read everything about the River of Souls and I know undeath is something very few deities look favorably upon (soul doesn't become petitioner, petitioner doesn't meld into the deity's plane bolstering against disintegration into the Maelstrom).

So clerics are manipulators of life and death, first and foremost, if I get what you're saying. Like, yeah, the deities have their divine portfolios reflected in the cleric's domains, but healing, raising, necromancy etc are the primary identifiers.

Okay Mr Jacobs, I'll ponder this concept. As always, thank you!

R-


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Do reefclaws make a sound? I know they don't speak a language, but, apart from noises (i.e., splashing) caused by their movements, do they have a call? Or are they mute?

AKA: What does the fox reefclaw say?


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Hi James!

If you were to run a campaign set exclusively in the Darklands, which native Darklands races would you make available to players?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Serum wrote:
If someone, for example, died on day one, rose as a wight or a juju zombie on day 2, and was destroyed on day 3, one would be able to use raise dead or reincarnate successfully on day 3, since those undead have mostly intact corpses, or does the process of destroying most undead not leave a mostly intact corpse? Would a creature that had risen as a skeleton be available to be raised using those lower level magics, or is that corpse no longer intact?

Yup, provided the body was in good enough condition for raise dead to work. Reincarnate and resurrection and beyond don't require the body to be in good condition, but the soul must be "available" for it to work. As long as the soul is trapped in undeath, it can't be brought back to life; the undead must first be destroyed.

Whether or not the corpse is intact enough to be raised, be it from the circumstances of its original death OR from damage it suffered while undead, is 100% left to the GM to decide.

A skeleton is certainly not complete enough to be affected by raise dead though. Note the line "missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life" in raise dead's description. In the case of a skeleton, it's missing all of its body save its skeleton, and you can't be alive without skin or organs or muscles or nerves or a brain or the like.

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