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TheAlicornSage wrote:Okay, zombies. Someone told me that zombies are animated by souls, but that doesn't make sense since zombies have no personality and from other spells and indications, such as speak with dead, ghosts, reincarnate/rez, etc, we can plainly see that personality and memory are ingrained in a soul, so it doesn't make sense that a creature animated by a soul would lack these things, not to mention being completely mindless.
What is the truth here, how can they have souls while lacking any of the few things that seem to be innate aspects of souls?
Also, is there any room for not-evil zombies or zombies of other types such as those in Dragon on a Pedastal (intelligent, normal moral spectrum, their looks depend on how much they are loved with more love = more alive looking)? Could there be a group that uses undead for menial labor or other tasks to which they are suited?
Also, why is healing not in the necromancy school? Just an artifact inherited from 3.x, or was there a reason for this?
When is the next rpg superstar?
Zombies, in Pathfinder, are animated by negative energy that uses a tiny shard of a soul that lingers among the remains. There's not enough soul in there to give the zombie a personality or intellect, but enough that it's an evil act to use it to make a zombie.
Non-evil undead are very very rare in Pathfinder. Those aren't stories we'er all that interested in telling. Feel free to make changes in your home game, of course, but non-evil undead isn't something we have any plans or interests in pursuing in that way.
Healing was necromancy in earlier editions, but they changed it to conjuration in 3rd edition D&D. I suspect to round out the conjuration school and to divorce healing from undead themed spells, but I"m not sure—I wasn't part of that decision-making process. I think it was the wrong decision, and that healing should be necromancy, but in the interests of backwards compatibility we didn't make that change when we built Pathfinder.
RPG...
Speaking of the modules have you considerd doing more experimental things with it that you wouldent want to risk trying on the adventure path line (thinking along the lines of maybe one year 4 modules another year only 1 or 2 but one of them being a extended/supermodule etc)
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James Jacobs wrote:Okies, what non-Paizo stuff are you currently preoccupied with?Rysky wrote:Are you working on Starfinder at all in a freelancer capacity?Not at this time.
Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos book, and a short thing for Kobold, but that's pretty much it for non-Paizo stuff.
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Speaking of the modules have you considerd doing more experimental things with it that you wouldent want to risk trying on the adventure path line (thinking along the lines of maybe one year 4 modules another year only 1 or 2 but one of them being a extended/supermodule etc)
It's not so much "experimental things" as it is EXCITING things. Things that matter. Things that make a difference. Event modules that folks want to read as much as they want to play. Bringing the same sort of attention to a module that we do to an Adventure Path.
But currently, management has me doing other things like Bestiary 6 or Adventurer's Guide or other stuff, so for the moment the modules line isn't something I'm doing much with for now.
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Hi James,
Have you had a chance to poke your head in on the results of the Strange Aeons AP, and read any of the final product?
I have to say I am really enjoying it. Volume 3, the one with lots of Dreamlands stuff is particularly great. As much as I would have loved to have you develop it, you being such a huge mythos fan and scholar, I am personally still very happy with the results.
As always, thank you for being a part of this thread. I would have understood completely if you had decided to let it go, because I can imagine in some way the need to be on top of it likely adds some stress to you, but I, for one, find it one of my favorite spots on the internet.
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Healing was necromancy in earlier editions, but they changed it to conjuration in 3rd edition D&D. I suspect to round out the conjuration school and to divorce healing from undead themed spells, but I"m not sure—I wasn't part of that decision-making process. I think it was the wrong decision, and that healing should be necromancy, but in the interests of backwards compatibility we didn't make that change when we built Pathfinder.
Do you/have you ever reassigned healing magic to Necromancy in your home/office games? I agree with you that thematically, it makes a heck-of-a lot more sense to be in necromancy than conjuration.
If you have, or if you've thought about it hard enough, do you know how badly (if at all) that would upset game balance? Of course, a ton of things would need to be tweaked, but overall, would it be detrimental to the system?
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Hi James,
Have you had a chance to poke your head in on the results of the Strange Aeons AP, and read any of the final product?
I have to say I am really enjoying it. Volume 3, the one with lots of Dreamlands stuff is particularly great. As much as I would have loved to have you develop it, you being such a huge mythos fan and scholar, I am personally still very happy with the results.
As always, thank you for being a part of this thread. I would have understood completely if you had decided to let it go, because I can imagine in some way the need to be on top of it likely adds some stress to you, but I, for one, find it one of my favorite spots on the internet.
I've looked through all of them as part of the approval process before we ship the books to the printer. And I wrote several of the backmatter articles, so I've read those for sure! But I haven't yet actually read any of the other adventures yet. Good to hear they're fun, though!
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So I just read in the First World, Realm of the Fey book about a race called the Merihza. Have they been mentioned elsewhere? Are they fey themselves? Just looking for a few details to help me flesh out a potential race I would like to play as. More than probably as my next character.
They're news to me. I suspect that they were invented for that book. No plans as far as I know to do much more with them at this time.
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James Jacobs wrote:
Healing was necromancy in earlier editions, but they changed it to conjuration in 3rd edition D&D. I suspect to round out the conjuration school and to divorce healing from undead themed spells, but I"m not sure—I wasn't part of that decision-making process. I think it was the wrong decision, and that healing should be necromancy, but in the interests of backwards compatibility we didn't make that change when we built Pathfinder.Do you/have you ever reassigned healing magic to Necromancy in your home/office games? I agree with you that thematically, it makes a heck-of-a lot more sense to be in necromancy than conjuration.
If you have, or if you've thought about it hard enough, do you know how badly (if at all) that would upset game balance? Of course, a ton of things would need to be tweaked, but overall, would it be detrimental to the system?
I haven't, because that type of fiddly tinkering is kinda distracting and ends up just being forgotten. I don't think it'd have any impact whatsoever on game balance at all, other than making it one more thing to keep track of at the table.
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When you're adding house rules to Pathfinder (or any other RPG), are there any criteria you run them through before they hit the table? I've noticed that a lot of the time once someone starts making little tweaks it can end up kind of... substantial to keep track of once you actually start playing.
I actually don't add house rules often, since my position here at Paizo kinda helps make my house rules be the actual rules more often than not. :P
When I do house rule things, they're pretty minor, like changing "breath of life" into "cure deadly wounds" (so a cleric can swap out to spontaneously cast it) or allowing bards to reallocate their skill ranks whenever they gain a versatile performance. That's about it, in fact, so for me, there's not a lot to keep track of.
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phantom1592 |
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Healing was necromancy in earlier editions, but they changed it to conjuration in 3rd edition D&D. I suspect to round out the conjuration school and to divorce healing from undead themed spells, but I"m not sure—I wasn't part of that decision-making process. I think it was the wrong decision, and that healing should be necromancy, but in the interests of backwards compatibility we didn't make that change when we built Pathfinder.RPG...
What are your thoughts on school overlap? I've seen a few spells that I agreed should have been in a different school. 2nd edition had a TON of obvious divination spells that got lumped in with other schools and scuttled my specialist diviner pretty hard...
But I also remember there were a few spells that had something like Transmutation/Conjuration or something for spells that could be in either school... and there were the 'universal' spells that even specialists could take (detect magic, identify, etc.)
I'd like to see some of that come back... Do you think there would be any massive hinderance to having healing spells be BOTH conjuration and Necromatic?
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James Jacobs wrote:
Healing was necromancy in earlier editions, but they changed it to conjuration in 3rd edition D&D. I suspect to round out the conjuration school and to divorce healing from undead themed spells, but I"m not sure—I wasn't part of that decision-making process. I think it was the wrong decision, and that healing should be necromancy, but in the interests of backwards compatibility we didn't make that change when we built Pathfinder.RPG...
What are your thoughts on school overlap? I've seen a few spells that I agreed should have been in a different school. 2nd edition had a TON of obvious divination spells that got lumped in with other schools and scuttled my specialist diviner pretty hard...
But I also remember there were a few spells that had something like Transmutation/Conjuration or something for spells that could be in either school... and there were the 'universal' spells that even specialists could take (detect magic, identify, etc.)
I'd like to see some of that come back... Do you think there would be any massive hinderance to having healing spells be BOTH conjuration and Necromatic?
Not a fan of school overlap. When you have a spell that does that, either redesign it or pick the school that's more appropraite.
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AlgaeNymph |
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What would the stats be for a yithian in the middle of a mind swap with a human? I'm guessing it would have the human's skills and mental stats, but none of the yithian's spell-like abilities or skills (like with magic jar or possession), but I'm asking to make sure.
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What would the stats be for a yithian in the middle of a mind swap with a human? I'm guessing it would have the human's skills and mental stats, but none of the yithian's spell-like abilities or skills (like with magic jar or possession), but I'm asking to make sure.
Check part 4 of Strange Aeons for an example of this.
Or barring that, check spells like mind swap in Occult Adventures.
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How hard IS it for paladins to function in Cheliax? I believe it's definitely a possibility given how there's enough of them for a Glorious Reclamation, but a friend of mine is arguing that Cheliax's nature is such that it's impossible for a paladin to NOT fall, because daily life in Cheliax requires colluding with evil people and he's of the opinion that any paladin worthy of the name would smite someone daring to call themselves a Hellknight on principle, even if said Hellknights was Lawful Neutral. Ultimately he concludes "It's simple. If your game is in Cheliax, you don't play a paladin." I know you're not a fan of paladins in general, but you and the other devs have created a lot of paladin figures coming out of Cheliax, including the very goddess of paladins herself.
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How hard IS it for paladins to function in Cheliax? I believe it's definitely a possibility given how there's enough of them for a Glorious Reclamation, but a friend of mine is arguing that Cheliax's nature is such that it's impossible for a paladin to NOT fall, because daily life in Cheliax requires colluding with evil people and he's of the opinion that any paladin worthy of the name would smite someone daring to call themselves a Hellknight on principle, even if said Hellknights was Lawful Neutral. Ultimately he concludes "It's simple. If your game is in Cheliax, you don't play a paladin." I know you're not a fan of paladins in general, but you and the other devs have created a lot of paladin figures coming out of Cheliax, including the very goddess of paladins herself.
That depends entirley on the paladin. It's tough for all of them, but for the stubborn ones who won't give any inch when it comes to compromises, it's pretty much intolerable and impossible.
But... look at it this way. You've seen paladins in parties work with chaotic good members, I'm sure. That's not all that different than working with lawful evils from a risk to your morals standpoint. Most folks (myself included) see chaotic good as a lesser threat than lawful evil as far as paladins go, but the wording of the class is intended to allow a paladin to work with such cases if she does so to make the best good possible. So, a paladin in Cheliax might spend the bulk of her time defending the citizenry and serving as a diplomatic or burrecratic speed bump or counterbalance to the church and house Thrune as best she could.
An adventuring paladin, of course, won't have time for this, and as such is going to be tricky to run in a long term campaign set in Cheliax.
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Would you say that Mad Max is a mythic character? Considering that George Miller considers the films not as a connected saga, but legends of Max's exploits.
I wouldn't, but that's because I wouldn't stat up Mad Max with Pathfinder's rules. He exists in a different world that would require a different Core Rulebook to emulate. And beyond that, the abilities a mythic character possesses are firmly in the superhero category. Although Mad Max is certainly larger than life and quite tough, he's hardly a superhero. Which is, in fact, one of the many things that make him an interesting character.
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Voyd211 wrote:Would you say that Mad Max is a mythic character? Considering that George Miller considers the films not as a connected saga, but legends of Max's exploits.I wouldn't, but that's because I wouldn't stat up Mad Max with Pathfinder's rules. He exists in a different world that would require a different Core Rulebook to emulate. And beyond that, the abilities a mythic character possesses are firmly in the superhero category. Although Mad Max is certainly larger than life and quite tough, he's hardly a superhero. Which is, in fact, one of the many things that make him an interesting character.
Would Mad Max fit into Unspeakable Futures?
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James Jacobs wrote:Voyd211 wrote:Would you say that Mad Max is a mythic character? Considering that George Miller considers the films not as a connected saga, but legends of Max's exploits.I wouldn't, but that's because I wouldn't stat up Mad Max with Pathfinder's rules. He exists in a different world that would require a different Core Rulebook to emulate. And beyond that, the abilities a mythic character possesses are firmly in the superhero category. Although Mad Max is certainly larger than life and quite tough, he's hardly a superhero. Which is, in fact, one of the many things that make him an interesting character.Would Mad Max fit into Unspeakable Futures?
Also, can we have any hope to see Unspeakable Futures in any way in the five years or so?
Since the Mad Max movies are one of the primary inspirations for Unspeakable Futures, yes, he'd fit in perfectly. He'd likely be a multiclassed Survivalist/Road Warrior.
Who can say what the next five years might bring? It's possible, but by no means guaranteed.
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Archpaladin Zousha wrote:How hard IS it for paladins to function in Cheliax? I believe it's definitely a possibility given how there's enough of them for a Glorious Reclamation, but a friend of mine is arguing that Cheliax's nature is such that it's impossible for a paladin to NOT fall, because daily life in Cheliax requires colluding with evil people and he's of the opinion that any paladin worthy of the name would smite someone daring to call themselves a Hellknight on principle, even if said Hellknights was Lawful Neutral. Ultimately he concludes "It's simple. If your game is in Cheliax, you don't play a paladin." I know you're not a fan of paladins in general, but you and the other devs have created a lot of paladin figures coming out of Cheliax, including the very goddess of paladins herself.That depends entirley on the paladin. It's tough for all of them, but for the stubborn ones who won't give any inch when it comes to compromises, it's pretty much intolerable and impossible.
But... look at it this way. You've seen paladins in parties work with chaotic good members, I'm sure. That's not all that different than working with lawful evils from a risk to your morals standpoint. Most folks (myself included) see chaotic good as a lesser threat than lawful evil as far as paladins go, but the wording of the class is intended to allow a paladin to work with such cases if she does so to make the best good possible. So, a paladin in Cheliax might spend the bulk of her time defending the citizenry and serving as a diplomatic or burrecratic speed bump or counterbalance to the church and house Thrune as best she could.
An adventuring paladin, of course, won't have time for this, and as such is going to be tricky to run in a long term campaign set in Cheliax.
This makes a lot of sense. Especially since my friend and me are discussing Council of Thieves, which is about defending Westcrown's public from threats its leaders can't or won't do anything about. I always figured a paladin operating in Cheliax had to be a little bit like Batman. Would that be an apt comparison?
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This makes a lot of sense. Especially since my friend and me are discussing Council of Thieves, which is about defending Westcrown's public from threats its leaders can't or won't do anything about. I always figured a paladin operating in Cheliax had to be a little bit like Batman. Would that be an apt comparison?
Meh... not really, since Batman's methods are very unpaladiny.
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Ereeus1 |
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So we have plenty of empires and solar systems full of life, where do all the souls go? as the afterlives would be near to full bursting with billions of years worth of souls than.
I remember you saying they get merged to the plane eventually however that seems like a cruel fate for good people to get inflicted upon as the experience nothing upon that. The reason I ask is because I was wondering if anyone that well versed in planar lore would defy it and seek lichdom/godhood so they are not absorbed
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So we have plenty of empires and solar systems full of life, where do all the souls go? as the afterlives would be near to full bursting with billions of years worth of souls than.
I remember you saying they get merged to the plane eventually however that seems like a cruel fate for good people to get inflicted upon as the experience nothing upon that. The reason I ask is because I was wondering if anyone that well versed in planar lore would defy it and seek lichdom/godhood so they are not absorbed
Those souls all go to their final resting place in the multiverse, which is much bigger than a human can imagine, and is in no danger of being "near to full bursting" nor will it ever be. There are countless other places and planes and deific realms associated with other worlds out there.
Some get merged with the outer planes, some never stop being petitioners, some become wandering souls, some become outsiders... it varies. And depending on the person, becoming a permanent part of Heaven or whatever isn't necessarily a "cruel fate" at all. Especially when you consider that memory and personality generally don't make the transition from death to afterlife.
I suspect there are plenty of those who learn about this process and either because they lack faith or simply lack the capacity to understand the process or because their egos are too powerful to contemplate a world without them that they would seek lichdom or other methods to avoid that fate. Mostly, such actions are born out of self-centered, egotistical emotions, though, not altruism or goodness.
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Linea Lirondottir |
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How easy is it to bypass Pharasma's judgement? We know that the spell "hellfire ray" is capable of doing so and that Daemons and other powerful magics can directly manipulate the soul, but what else can condemn somebody to a plane they didn't earn?
Does sacrificing somebody to a deity send the sacrifice's soul to them?
Can somebody who was not party to an infernal contract nor bound for Hell be sent to Hell for somebody else's actions and contract?
How else can somebody's afterlife be manipulated by an outside party?
Though even the "good" afterlives are pretty terrible in that regard since "you" basically cease to exist after dying anyway, and it's not really much of a reward or punishment for the person who "earned" it. Instead it largely determines the fate of the next incarnation of their soul and slightly tilts the odds in the overall war between the planes.
If somebody dies and is then resurrected from a small piece of their body, is the rest of what's there able to be transformed into an undead? If it is, would the still-living person be affected in any way while still alive? If they died again before the undead was destroyed, would that undead existing prevent subsequent resurrections until it was destroyed?
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AlgaeNymph |
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Ereeus1 wrote:So we have plenty of empires and solar systems full of life, where do all the souls go? as the afterlives would be near to full bursting with billions of years worth of souls than.
I remember you saying they get merged to the plane eventually however that seems like a cruel fate for good people to get inflicted upon as the experience nothing upon that. The reason I ask is because I was wondering if anyone that well versed in planar lore would defy it and seek lichdom/godhood so they are not absorbedThose souls all go to their final resting place in the multiverse, which is much bigger than a human can imagine, and is in no danger of being "near to full bursting" nor will it ever be. There are countless other places and planes and deific realms associated with other worlds out there.
Some get merged with the outer planes, some never stop being petitioners, some become wandering souls, some become outsiders... it varies. And depending on the person, becoming a permanent part of Heaven or whatever isn't necessarily a "cruel fate" at all. Especially when you consider that memory and personality generally don't make the transition from death to afterlife.
I suspect there are plenty of those who learn about this process and either because they lack faith or simply lack the capacity to understand the process or because their egos are too powerful to contemplate a world without them that they would seek lichdom or other methods to avoid that fate. Mostly, such actions are born out of self-centered, egotistical emotions, though, not altruism or goodness.
What is merging with a plane like?
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Drahliana Moonrunner |
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Ereeus1 wrote:So we have plenty of empires and solar systems full of life, where do all the souls go? as the afterlives would be near to full bursting with billions of years worth of souls than.
I remember you saying they get merged to the plane eventually however that seems like a cruel fate for good people to get inflicted upon as the experience nothing upon that. The reason I ask is because I was wondering if anyone that well versed in planar lore would defy it and seek lichdom/godhood so they are not absorbedThose souls all go to their final resting place in the multiverse, which is much bigger than a human can imagine, and is in no danger of being "near to full bursting" nor will it ever be. There are countless other places and planes and deific realms associated with other worlds out there.
Some get merged with the outer planes, some never stop being petitioners, some become wandering souls, some become outsiders... it varies. And depending on the person, becoming a permanent part of Heaven or whatever isn't necessarily a "cruel fate" at all. Especially when you consider that memory and personality generally don't make the transition from death to afterlife.
I suspect there are plenty of those who learn about this process and either because they lack faith or simply lack the capacity to understand the process or because their egos are too powerful to contemplate a world without them that they would seek lichdom or other methods to avoid that fate. Mostly, such actions are born out of self-centered, egotistical emotions, though, not altruism or goodness.
Have you studied much of Buddhism or Eastern Philosophy?
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Not even a module for Tian Xia? Absolute zero on that whole front?
I am interested in Starfinder and i even got Strange Aeons to give it a chance, but that´s a bit disapointing by now i´m afraid.
Is Paizo afraid of getting hurt there? Is there no love for the eastern continents of Golarion?
If and when we announce a module set in Tian Xia, you'll hear from here. I know you want one set there, and I've heard your requests in particular, but I don't use this thread to announce products even IF they're a day away from being announced.
We aren't "afraid of getting hurt" there. We're just not doing as many modules overall at all at this time. There's Tian Xia content popping in on the Campaign Setting and Player Companion books semi-regularly, but not exclusively, obviously not in large enough quantities to satisfy you though.
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So would this resting place be a place were people who have had their souls destroyed go? or do they simply feel oblivion unless they are brought back through some magical means?
No. Destroyed souls are gone and do nothing. That's what's bad about it. It's a 100% waste of life and experience and memory and existence.
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How easy is it to bypass Pharasma's judgement? We know that the spell "hellfire ray" is capable of doing so and that Daemons and other powerful magics can directly manipulate the soul, but what else can condemn somebody to a plane they didn't earn?
Does sacrificing somebody to a deity send the sacrifice's soul to them?
Can somebody who was not party to an infernal contract nor bound for Hell be sent to Hell for somebody else's actions and contract?
How else can somebody's afterlife be manipulated by an outside party?
Though even the "good" afterlives are pretty terrible in that regard since "you" basically cease to exist after dying anyway, and it's not really much of a reward or punishment for the person who "earned" it. Instead it largely determines the fate of the next incarnation of their soul and slightly tilts the odds in the overall war between the planes.
If somebody dies and is then resurrected from a small piece of their body, is the rest of what's there able to be transformed into an undead? If it is, would the still-living person be affected in any way while still alive? If they died again before the undead was destroyed, would that undead existing prevent subsequent resurrections until it was destroyed?
It's not easy to bypass Pharasma's judgement, but spells like hellfire ray, being sacrificed during a special ritual, or being turned undead all do that. Infernal contracts can do it as well. I'm not gonna list an exhaustive list of the things that can do it, because there's always the potential of a new story element or something that someone might come up with.
Bypassing judgement by damning or destroying or otherwise redirecting a soul isn't a good act, so there's pretty much no good ways to do this.
As a general rule, if someone is resurrected in a way that enough of the body remains behind is a mostly whole thing, that body can only be turned into mindless undead like skeletons or zombies. This is a VERY unusual and rare condition, of course.
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What is merging with a plane like?
Folks should really check out the excellent article Wes wrote on the subject of souls and the afterlife in the last Mummy's Mask.
Merging with a plane is either ultimate bliss (if your soul is being rewarded) or eternal agony (if your soul is being punished).
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From another thread, Isabelle Lee suggested that I pose this question to you.
Ralph Cauthorn wrote:The Sphere Singer prestige class from Paths of the Righteous has a capstone that says:
Tapestry Traveler (Ex, Sp): At 10th level, the sphere singer transcends mortality like a butterfly emerging from its chrysalis, her essence infused with stardust and unearthly energies. Her type changes to fey, and she grows large butterfly wings, gaining a fly speed of 50 feet (good). In addition, she becomes immune to cold and gains the no breath universal monster ability.
Does "transcends mortality" mean that she becomes immortal, in the sense that she stops aging and will no longer die of old age? Is that by virtue of her becoming a fey creature, and if yes, does this mean that all fey creatures are immortal?
Writer of the sphere singer here!
I didn't expressly mean for it to grant immortality; that was more embellishment and pretty words than any definite intent. However... if fey are indeed immortal, then it presumably should grant that benefit as well. At the very least, I see it changing how aging affects you in flavorful ways - less wrinkles and withering, more fading strength and becoming more ethereally beautiful, until one day you just... pass away. Perhaps even joining the cycle of the First World, if you're on that plane.
Also, James Jacobs was the developer for Paths of the Righteous, and Desna-related content is of particular interest to him. You might try asking in his thread as well.
Hope this helps. ^_^
Are all fey immortal?
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Linea Lirondottir |
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#1: If a living person and an undead created from their body both exist at the same time, the living person dies again, and a resurrection spell is cast upon them... what happens? Does the undead existing prevent the resurrection spell from functioning or is it only an undead created from the immediately prior lifetime that matters for that purpose?
#2: For Book Ward, does it affect one object/level, each of which can weight up to 10 lbs, or does it affect a singular object with a greater weight allowance as level increases? (The former would seem far more useful for books, naturally)
#3: Also, does it protect against a single element chosen upon when it's cast, or does it protect against both acid and fire with a single usage?
#4: If the second, do they share a single pool of damage they can prevent or do they both receive the full allotment?
As always, thanks for your time, consideration, and answers. :)