Does anyone else play up the Wizard arrogance that Sorcerers are "inferior" and not "real spellcasters" in game with their Wizard characters?
I tend to have my Wizard PCs take this stance out of arrogance and maybe a bit of jealousy. After all, they had to study for years to attain the mastery of magic they have achieved, and here comes along this upstart pretty boy who never had to open a book in his life but somehow is able to effortlessly do most of the things the Wizard has had to devote his entire life to do. "Yeah, it must be nice to have magic you didn't earn" was a quote one Wizard I played said to a fellow PC Sorcerer. I love this kind of RP, personally. Really smart people tend to look down on the "morons" around them in real life and I imagine it'd be the same in Golarian. How much does it sting to see the "moron" do what it took you with your logic and intellect with nothing but force of personality. From the Wizard's standpoint, it looks like the Sorcerer got a free ride in life. Sorcerers in turn look at Wizards as pretentious bastards who look down on them for living their birthright.
Actually it's my sorcerer that tends to look down on everyone else. That being said my wizards do tend to dismiss anyone without magical power as being only useful for secretarial work, meat shields, or "entertainment". If someone has magical power he'll give them a chance and some respect, but if they prove themselves incompentent any respect he had for them goes out the window.
Absolutely.
My 28 INT wizard thinks everyone is inferior. Why, if you can't calculate differential equations in your head, you're nobody.
And sorcerers are the worst. Running around pretending to be spellcasters when all they are is lucky. Pure luck. They don't even know what they're doing! Idiots...
Frankly, I'm amazed Golarion still exists, what with all those spellcasting morons picking apart the threads of the universe. We're lucky they haven't started a chain reaction to destroy us all by now.
Now, where'd I put that God particle...
Does anyone else play up the Wizard arrogance that Sorcerers are "inferior" and not "real spellcasters" in game with their Wizard characters?
I tend to have my Wizard PCs take this stance out of arrogance and maybe a bit of jealousy. After all, they had to study for years to attain the mastery of magic they have achieved, and here comes along this upstart pretty boy who never had to open a book in his life but somehow is able to effortlessly do most of the things the Wizard has had to devote his entire life to do. "Yeah, it must be nice to have magic you didn't earn" was a quote one Wizard I played said to a fellow PC Sorcerer. I love this kind of RP, personally. Really smart people tend to look down on the "morons" around them in real life and I imagine it'd be the same in Golarian. How much does it sting to see the "moron" do what it took you with your logic and intellect with nothing but force of personality. From the Wizard's standpoint, it looks like the Sorcerer got a free ride in life. Sorcerers in turn look at Wizards as pretentious bastards who look down on them for living their birthright.
Actually I look down upon the other no matter what I play.
The wizard respects the sorcerers power but thinks he does not deserve it. He did not earn it and does not have the intellectual to use it correctly.The sorcerer being the natural looks down upon the wizard who has to keep his head in a book all day to do what he does naturally.
As a line from the old WoTC forums went
Sorcerer: Wizards study for their magic, clerics beg for theirs, me, I am magic.
Sorcerers are like poets.
Sorcerers are like poets. Sure, they get all the chicks, but when you need to get stuff done do you look for a poet, or do you seek out the brainiac with all the know-how and the right tools for the job?
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Sorcerers are like poets.Sorcerers are like poets. Sure, they get all the chicks, but when you need to get stuff done do you look for a poet, or do you seek out the brainiac with all the know-how and the right tools for the job?
But the Poets still have better sex, and more of it.
All the Best,
Kerney
Sorcs are my personal preference between the two, though I love all arcane casters.
I absolutely adore having both in a party, and watching the rivalry.
I swear I will never forget a player conflict I DM'd for between a Sorc and a Wiz...
The two let their egos get the best of them, and decided it was time to throw-down. The Sorcerer baited the Wizard with his Reserve Feats, then used his larger per-day allotment to systematically counter almost everything the Wizard cast above 2nd level. The Wizard got so ticked, and really played up the "You can't possibly beat someone who actually knows what they're doing" mentality (loved the flavor).
When the Wizard was out of spells, the Sorcerer threw him in a Force Cage, walked over to the Wizard's spellbook, and turned it to ash.
He then turned to the Wizard, who had a devastated look on his face, dropped the Force Cage and said;
"Wow, you're right! That book gave you way too much of an advantage! Good news though - now that it's gone, we can have a fair fight in the morning. After breakfast of course. Most important meal of the day, y'know..."
Then walked away.
Awesome.
Depends on what you want done. Do you want to gather an army? Or do you want to invent the telephone? Do you want a social revolution or a technological revolution?Sorcerers are like poets.Sorcerers are like poets. Sure, they get all the chicks, but when you need to get stuff done do you look for a poet, or do you seek out the brainiac with all the know-how and the right tools for the job?
Hah, if we're talking wizards, then I'm looking to slaughter an army, I'll replace the telephone with a teleportal so I can "call" my friends face-to-face, and I won't need revolution when I can rule the kingdom with a magical iron fist...
I never really liked the sorcerer. It just doesn't fit my play style or homebrew campaign settings. I don't like arcane casters getting spells from charisma or anything but hard learning with intelligence. The idea that they are likeable and thus get spells innately does not sit well with my pulp style play. For that matter neither does multiclassing into a wizard. I like the wizard to be somethin that takes many years of dedication to even be able to fathom a zero level spell. I could honestly see the cleric getting spells from charisma because the gods like them better, but not an arcane caster. Just my taste. Some people like apples, some people like oranges.
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Magical superiority is soley dependant on the quality of the caster's pointy hat.
That being said, our sorcerer's are generally lone wolves, wanderer's and vagabonds with few ties.
They're generally amused by people who hide from reality behind the walls of academia.
People like.. wizards.
Our wizards think that sorcerer's are dangerous, irresponible and generally a 'bad influence' on those who are serious about studying the arcane arts.
Personally I believe they resent sorcerer's because the sorcerer's get all the girls..
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.....Magical superiority is soley dependant on the quality of the caster's pointy hat.
Does that make the bard superior to them both, then? Bards are the best at hats.
Does that make the bard superior to them both, then? Bards are the best at hats..
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.....Magical superiority is soley dependant on the quality of the caster's pointy hat.
Naturally!
Especially if reality is defined by perceptial consensus!
IE: ...the Bard's get to *really* shape reality through telling everyone 'What REALLY happened down in the Dungeon of Doom'..
The bard takes an easy -20 penalty to bluff, coupled with glibness, and informs the world that bards are the best at magic.
All while wearing a really neat hat.
The bard takes an easy -20 penalty to bluff, coupled with glibness, and informs the world that bards are the best at magic.
All while wearing a really neat hat.
I disbelieve your hat.
Also, hard work is it's own reward.
The hat would disagree...
..it's easy when you're at the top!
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The bard takes an easy -20 penalty to bluff, coupled with glibness, and informs the world that bards are the best at magic.
All while wearing a really neat hat.
I disbelieve your hat.
Also, hard work is it's own reward.
The hat would disagree...
..it's easy when you're at the top!
"Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty... I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led diffcult lives and led them well."
I have always, always, had difficulties playing a full wizard (not just a dip to help another class). Why? Because in my first years of playing, some GM would actually try to find ways to make my memorized spells useless. Or steal my spellbook. Challenge, they said. This sticks with me to this day: wizards have good options but the most obvious are situational. Chosen, yes, but situational.
When I first learned of the Sorcerer, I was excited: a versatile wizard! True, they have (much) less spells to draw from. But they have more castings per day. The only strange thing (I initially found) was that they relied on Charisma. Like most spontaneous spellcasters, by the way.
"Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty... I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led diffcult lives and led them well."
Mr Roosevelt never met my dog..
..nor beheld the awesome sight of my pointy hat!
Has anyone read the evil origins book for Order of the Stick? Xykon after becoming a lich (and being an epic sorceror) faces off with an epic wizard who is berating him with the information that his 'knowledge and power in the arcane arts could never be matched by a mere sorceror'. The response to this was xykon repeatedly energy draining the wizard. Over and over. "You know I am sick and tired of wizards spouting off about their greater power and knowledge. You know what's cool? I can just keep energy draining you over and over, untill all that power, doesnt mean crap." [please not these quotes are not exact as I dont have the book in front of me]. Having always had an ingame preference for sorcerors flavor wise, I audibly cheered for the bad guy when I read that.
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I had a Epic Wizard in a game once who was so mindblowingly arrogant that he considered everybody to be beneath him (with the exception of a few other powerful wizards).
The rest of the group utterly despised him. Especially after conversations like this:
Cleric "You just think you are better than all of us"
Wizard "I am better than all of you"
This arrogance led to his deluded belief that you combat evil by killing all of it without mercy and without compassion. He became the poster boy for "The ends justify the means". This led to a conflict of ideologies between him and the rest of the group who thought (rightly) that he was setting himself up as judge, jury and executioner and had lost sight of the principles he was trying to save.
As a result he is now the main villain of the follow up campaign...
Does anyone else play up the Wizard arrogance that Sorcerers are "inferior" and not "real spellcasters" in game with their Wizard characters?
My Enchantress just wants those dresses. How do they cast spells with somatic components and stay in those things? Must be a bonus feat they get in addition to eschew materials. Sorceresses: bending reality in the name of fashion.
Besides a little petty jealousy, no other problems. Yes, Sorcerers get "free" power, where wizards have to study. Wizards can do a lot of things that sorcerers can't. Everybody is different. And as others have said, if you don't work hard to refine your power (born or learned) you are just going to be casting cantrips all your life.
That being said, I've done the "Wizards's arrogance" thing with other characters. It's a common trope, but a fun one =)
You've got different types of arrogant. You have the smart guy type that flaunts their Mensa memberships and manages to work their SAT/GRE/GMAT scores into casual conversations (wizards). Then you have the popular guy types who sneer down their noses at anyone not wearing this year's fashions and totally in step with pop culture (sorcerers). The two archetypes do not usually mix well. Both are arrogant in their belief they are inherently superior and neither can really understand the other's point of view.
Man there was a great post a few weeks back where someone was quoting a book or something. Something along the lines of 'you dare threaten me with your bit of sharpened metal, I am all powerful, I bend the world to my will. The floor underneath you is an illusion...etcetc' but i cant find it now. But seriously I think everyone who plays casters regularly eventually plays the arrogant wizard who considers himself superior to all things as well as the arrogant sorc who things he is the hottest thing since spell componenents.
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Man there was a great post a few weeks back where someone was quoting a book or something. Something along the lines of 'you dare threaten me with your bit of sharpened metal, I am all powerful, I bend the world to my will. The floor underneath you is an illusion...etcetc' but i cant find it now. But seriously I think everyone who plays casters regularly eventually plays the arrogant wizard who considers himself superior to all things as well as the arrogant sorc who things he is the hottest thing since spell componenents.
Was likely a variant of the infamous opening passage of the Dorsai novel "Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage amongst his books. For to you the Kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned by the flicking of a finger."
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Wizard: "So the Sorceror was born with minor magical powers. Big deal. It must be truly awful to wake up every day and know you are not as good as a wizard, and never can be. What saves their sanity is that they rarely actually have a deep thought. How awful. Rather like their magic they are oh so shallow with their fashionable but impractical clothes, their fake smiles and their meaningless conversation.
If you want showmanship get a sorceror. If you want workmanship get a wizard."
I had a Faerun wizard from Halruua once, so naturally, I couldn't not have that attitude towards sorcerers. It was a lot of fun with a sorc in the party, too.
I think we'll find that, just like there are numerous opinions on the power levels of each and how they compare out of game, the roleplaying stances of characters are wide and varied. Personally, my dwarven wizard wouldn't disparage any other spellcaster, regardless of how they got their magic.If you were looking for a reasonable discussion, why'd you come to the Internet?
Sometimes, Ithink the people on this board are too afraid of a little disagreement. It's okay to be opinionated.
I disagree :P