Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I'm having a hard time finding a ranged touch spell that actually does straight damage, beyond Scorching Ray. Is there really no higher level evocation ranged touch spell that just does damage?
Polar ray at 8th.
Disintegrate (not an evocation unless I'm misremembering, but it is RT for straight damage) at 6th.
Meteor Swarm at 9th (yes, it does booms, but also straight damage with RT).
And, if you're a druid, Fire Seeds at 6th.
If you need a source for ranged Sneak Attack with a spell, you can still use an Enervation.
A spell which inflicts Negative Levels can be used for Sneak Attack, only thing is that the extra d6s damage would be Negative Energy (and not extra Negative Levels).
You can find the full explanation on this old 3.x essay HERE
from 'Rules of the Game - All about Sneak Attacks, pt. 4' :
"Spells as Sneak Attacks
Any spell that requires an attack roll and deals damage can be used in a sneak attack. In this case "damage" is normal damage, nonlethal damage, ability damage, or energy drain. You can sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell, but not with a magic missile spell.
Ranged spells are effective as sneak attacks only at ranges of 30 feet or less (just like any other ranged sneak attack).
A successful sneak attack with a weaponlike spell inflicts extra damage according to the attacker's sneak attack ability, and the extra damage dealt is the same type as the spell deals. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell inflicts 2d4 points of acid damage, plus an extra 5d6 points of acid damage from the sneak attack (note that continuing damage from this spell is not part of the sneak attack). Spells that inflict energy drains or ability damage deal extra negative energy damage in a sneak attack, not extra negative levels or ability damage. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with an enervation spell deals 1d4 negative levels plus an extra 5d6 points of negative energy damage."
Just my 2c.
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I'm having a hard time finding a ranged touch spell that actually does straight damage, beyond Scorching Ray. Is there really no higher level evocation ranged touch spell that just does damage?Polar ray at 8th.
Disintegrate (not an evocation unless I'm misremembering, but it is RT for straight damage) at 6th.
Meteor Swarm at 9th (yes, it does booms, but also straight damage with RT).
And, if you're a druid, Fire Seeds at 6th.
Yeah, that's what I've figured. So basically, from 4th to 11th level(!) a sorcerer/rogue is still using his 2nd level spell to sneak attack.
And we he finally does get an upgrade, there's a saving throw to knock it's effectiveness right back down to the same as the 2nd level spell he just grew out of!
Ugh.
3.5 Orb of BLANK spells were ranged touch. Check Spell Compendium.
APG spells:
Contagious Flame (6th)
Twilight knife can flank and gets sneak attack on it's own (3rd)
Calcific Touch is a touch attack for dex damage (4th)
Reach Vampiric touch is a 4th level spell... add intensify spell to make it fifth.
APG feat:
Not a great option but Arcane blast lets you turn spells into 2d6+1d6 per spell level rays.
3.5 Orb of BLANK spells were ranged touch. Check Spell Compendium.
Yes, depending on the DM, you can always use 3.5 material, but I am sure the OP is talking about strictly PF material.
And he is right in regards to that, there are not enough ranged touch spells right now. It’s not so much wanting them to be ranged touch, but those usually are associated with No ST and/or Spell Resistance. In our 3.5 campaign, I love the Orb spells as they are good for those pesky characters with high reflex saves or with SR, or both.
Pathfinder doesn’t have that right now at the lower level spells 4 (and below), except Scorching Ray. I know Paizo can’t use the Orb spells as they are not open content, and they don’t like to copy spells and change them slightly for their own use (and understand that) but it would be nice to get something similar for the lower to mid level spells, eventually.
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Also from the APG - the Reach Spell feat turns touch spells into ranged touch spells.
Vampiric Touch Sneak attack may not be heavy on damage, but is pretty interesting. And that's just one example. Broadening the field to Reach-ed Touch spells should give a wizard/rogue a few more options, and as metamagic feats go, it's not very expensive (+1 level).
Acid Arrow! A real winner of a spell there! Feel the wrath of a slow recurring 2d4!
Spectral hand adds all of the low level melee touch spells to the list.
Many bloodlines and wizard schools have a ranged attack usable 3 + ability modifier/day.
If you want more power, just empower or maximize the spell.
I'm not sure if it carried over to Pathfinder (yet) but there was a whole section about creating your own spells. Nothing wrong with making your own "Ray O' Energy" spells.
Also from the APG - the Reach Spell feat turns touch spells into ranged touch spells.
Vampiric Touch Sneak attack may not be heavy on damage, but is pretty interesting. And that's just one example. Broadening the field to Reach-ed Touch spells should give a wizard/rogue a few more options, and as metamagic feats go, it's not very expensive (+1 level).
That's what I was going to suggest, too (Reach Chill Touch, Reach Shocking Grasp, etc.).
That 2nd level spall is pretty freaking powerful for it's level. Unlike many spells it actually scales with level, so dealing 12d6 plus sneak attack is nothing to sneeze at for a multiclassed character... and that's not even factoring in metagmagic to enhance such a low level spell. Heck, at high enough level you could cast an Empowered, Maximized Scorching Ray for a 7th level slot followed up by a Quickened Empowered Scorching Ray for an 8th level slot (which would also get your sneak attack damage as far as I can figure).
Scorching Ray is one of my favorite spells.
Correct me if I'm wrong but an Intensified Vampiric Touch wouldn't gain any benefit over a regular Vampiric Touch unless the caster was atleast 22nd Level. As that would be the first level the caster would gain an addition 1d6 damage over the normal 1d6/two levels (max cap 10d6).APG spells:
Contagious Flame (6th)
Twilight knife can flank and gets sneak attack on it's own (3rd)
Calcific Touch is a touch attack for dex damage (4th)
Reach Vampiric touch is a 4th level spell... add intensify spell to make it fifth.APG feat:
Not a great option but Arcane blast lets you turn spells into 2d6+1d6 per spell level rays.
Varasian tattoo (necromancy)
Bloatmage Initiate (necromancy)Orange Ioun stone
That's +3 to caster level for necromancy spells.
However I did forget the amount of damage cap Vampiric touch had -- for some reason I thought it capped at 5d6... probably something from an old character I had stuck in my head.
Other options include:
Chill touch (reach)
Hellfire Ray
Slay Living (reach)
Empowering a spell does not increase the number of dice, it's a multiplier on the dice result.
Wrong! It states that it improves "variable numeric effects" A Sum is NOT variable. The variable factor is in fact the number of dice rolled.
Proof: Maximize Spell and Empower Spell specifically do not stack. "An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus half the normally rolled result."
As fun as reading this argument is, I'd love to get an official ruling from someone at Paizo on the matter, because inquiring minds want to know.
What happens in the following situation:
The rogue/sorcerer suprises 3 duergar. Can he use his 3 rays of the scorching ray to do full sneak attack on each of them, or does he only get the sneak attack on one of them?
i wonder, does twilight knive actually provide flank for the wizard / rogue casting the spell, or does it only flank with the caster for the benefit of the knife only? This is a minor distinction, but one which would either allow the rogue to gain sneak damage or not.
mark
Well, the wording of the spell is rather quirky...firstly, I would suggest that since you do not threaten an enemy from range, the knife would be unable to set up a flank with you unless you had reach and were within reach range.
On the other hand, the spell also does not say that it has to be flanking with YOU. If you fire a bow at someone who is in melee with an ally, it might be able to get into a flanking position with your ally. There is the issue of the knife's move-speed, though. From the looks of it, it might be able to travel any distance in a round as long as it remains within range.
Still, I'm not so sure how effective this spell is...
What happens in the following situation:
The rogue/sorcerer suprises 3 duergar. Can he use his 3 rays of the scorching ray to do full sneak attack on each of them, or does he only get the sneak attack on one of them?
Well, the wording of the spell is rather quirky...firstly, I would suggest that since you do not threaten an enemy from range, the knife would be unable to set up a flank with you unless you had reach and were within reach range.
On the other hand, the spell also does not say that it has to be flanking with YOU. If you fire a bow at someone who is in melee with an ally, it might be able to get into a flanking position with your ally. There is the issue of the knife's move-speed, though. From the looks of it, it might be able to travel any distance in a round as long as it remains within range.
Still, I'm not so sure how effective this spell is...
Either you quoted the wrong person, or I haven't wroten clear enough. In my case you would suprise them in a suprise round, and they would be flat footed, so you can sneak them from the distance of no more than 30ft.
Either you quoted the wrong person, or I haven't wroten clear enough. In my case you would suprise them in a suprise round, and they would be flat footed, so you can sneak them from the distance of no more than 30ft.What happens in the following situation:
The rogue/sorcerer suprises 3 duergar. Can he use his 3 rays of the scorching ray to do full sneak attack on each of them, or does he only get the sneak attack on one of them?
Well, the wording of the spell is rather quirky...firstly, I would suggest that since you do not threaten an enemy from range, the knife would be unable to set up a flank with you unless you had reach and were within reach range.
On the other hand, the spell also does not say that it has to be flanking with YOU. If you fire a bow at someone who is in melee with an ally, it might be able to get into a flanking position with your ally. There is the issue of the knife's move-speed, though. From the looks of it, it might be able to travel any distance in a round as long as it remains within range.
Still, I'm not so sure how effective this spell is...
Yeah I quoted the wrong person, sorry. XD Post has been edited. As for your question, I'd say the rules seem to suggest you can sneak attack 3 times, or a whopping six times if you quicken a second one, BUT you'd need to punch through any fire resistance on each individual ray to deal sneak attack damage with that ray-if your ray fails to deal damage, no sneak attack occurs.