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You're take on the subject? I was thinking of doing this with my witch, as it will level my next game. I was thinking that it would be an Oracle with the Haunted Oracle's Curse, the Bone Mystery. Currently, my witch is 1st level, with...
8 Str
12 Dex
15 Con
18 Int
10 Wis
13 Cha
Fox Familiar, with the skills of Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Planes), and Spellcraft. Languages are Common, Elvish, Abyssal, Celestial, Draconiac, Infernal. She has the Shadow Patron. Also, the Charm hex.
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with the Haunted Oracle's Curse
You do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.
I am DMing over a game with a player with that curse and I have NEVER seen a player so frustrated with a class feature. Plus I throw on plenty of extra creepy just for good measure, waking the player up with a ghost child holding a flower vase over his head etc.
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I was thinking this because I do not have a high enough Charisma to do Cleric. The Oracle has all of its abilites set in stone as far as how many it can cast a day, and it has int as it's main focus, much like the witch, as I understand it. mind you, I am still fairly new to the pathfinder system. And I was thinking tongues because we have a party member in our group who can speak almost any language, and if I need to shout something in combat, he, or one of the three other players that speak draconiac or abyssal can answer or spread the word.
I was thinking this because I do not have a high enough Charisma to do Cleric. The Oracle has all of its abilites set in stone as far as how many it can cast a day, and it has int as it's main focus, much like the witch, as I understand it. mind you, I am still fairly new to the pathfinder system. And I was thinking tongues because we have a party member in our group who can speak almost any language, and if I need to shout something in combat, he, or one of the three other players that speak draconiac or abyssal can answer or spread the word.
The Oracle class runs off charisma.
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Just as a little aside if you are new to the pathfinder system.
A few thematic changes are petty apparent, the fact that multi-classing isn't really that great anymore unless you are working towards something VERY specific. The second is that prestige classes are nowhere near what they used to be with 3.5. The class structure is an altogether different beast now and in most cases it is simply better to single class.
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You do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.
Huh? How do you figure? "Stored item" generally refers to things in your backpack and such, not that you have out and ready to use like a component pouch or a weapon.
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I was working towards the Mystic Theurge, eventually, but not sure anymore.
If it helps any, I am working out a Witch/Rogue character that thrives in social situations and works to be as manipulative as possible. I will likely be working to become a spy after a certain point as well depending on the circumstances.
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You do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.Huh? How do you figure? "Stored item" generally refers to things in your backpack and such, not that you have out and ready to use like a component pouch or a weapon.
I've never interpreted the haunted curse as affecting spell casting either. Did one of the developers mention this somewhere?
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I've never interpreted the haunted curse as affecting spell casting either. Did one of the developers mention this somewhere?You do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.Huh? How do you figure? "Stored item" generally refers to things in your backpack and such, not that you have out and ready to use like a component pouch or a weapon.
Spellcasting components are thusly stored, they wouldn't kept on hand and they have their own pouch. "Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction."
Seems pretty straitforward to me, otherwise this curse would end up being WAYYY too easy. I don't see this as needing clarification. As it is it has a one feat workaround for most spellcasting situations anyway.
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I don't think the feat workaround balances with the other curses.
It seems that they are all around the same level and no feats to 'fix them'. Granted Eschew materials is a good feat to take anyways but I don't think it's a fix for that curse.
I agree with the spell component pouch(es) not being part of your gear, like a backpack full of stuff.
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I don't think the feat workaround balances with the other curses.
It seems that they are all around the same level and no feats to 'fix them'. Granted Eschew materials is a good feat to take anyways but I don't think it's a fix for that curse.
I agree with the spell component pouch(es) not being part of your gear, like a backpack full of stuff.
Then you would interpret this curse as being non-consequential for everything other than possibly RP situations? Because otherwise you could make the case that pretty much everything you have on you is "ready to use" by stating you have a "potion belt" and that drawing a sword is "always at hand."
I am sorry, no. You are supposed to make a difficult decision as to what you characters drawback is when you make them, and having a hard time finding that obscure piece of gear from your bags outside of combat once a play session is NOT a major drawback compared to being incapable of ever hearing your teamates trying to communicate with you, being blind past 30 feet, or being unable to talk whenever you are in combat or just having a stressed out bad day.If something is not literally in your hands then it is stored on your person and counts as being part of your gear. This includes weapons, potions, and spell components.
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I've never interpreted the haunted curse as affecting spell casting either. Did one of the developers mention this somewhere?You do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.Huh? How do you figure? "Stored item" generally refers to things in your backpack and such, not that you have out and ready to use like a component pouch or a weapon.Spellcasting components are thusly stored, they wouldn't kept on hand and they have their own pouch. "Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction."
Seems pretty straitforward to me, otherwise this curse would end up being WAYYY too easy. I don't see this as needing clarification. As it is it has a one feat workaround for most spellcasting situations anyway.
I interpreted as items stored in a backpack, which basically would make a Handy Haversack useless for someone with the haunted curse. I think that is more on the level of the other curses, but I obviously need to get an official ruling for my Pathfinder Society character.
I've never interpreted the haunted curse as affecting spell casting either. Did one of the developers mention this somewhere?You do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.Huh? How do you figure? "Stored item" generally refers to things in your backpack and such, not that you have out and ready to use like a component pouch or a weapon.Spellcasting components are thusly stored, they wouldn't kept on hand and they have their own pouch. "Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction."
Seems pretty straitforward to me, otherwise this curse would end up being WAYYY too easy. I don't see this as needing clarification. As it is it has a one feat workaround for most spellcasting situations anyway.
I can see why you'd rule it like that, but I don't believe that's the intended design. It's a spellcasting class. They aren't going to create a primary spellcaster and then add a feature, even an optional one, that completely hoses the intent of that class, which is to cast spells. The delay in retrieving every other item from your gear (plus dropped items skittering away) is the obvious 'drawback' here; anything else is pretty much unplayable without a required feat tax. And since I don't think 'unplayable' is what they were going for, I don't think your interpretation of spell components as falling under the effects of this curse is correct.
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I interpreted as items stored in a backpack, which basically would make a Handy Haversack useless for someone with the haunted curse. I think that is more on the level of the other curses, but I obviously need to get an official ruling for my Pathfinder Society character.
So invalidating a magical item of convenience is equal to having a permanent limp, literally rotting away, or not being able to benefit from a number of teamwork abilities?
I apologize for the snark by the way, and I do think an official ruling could help here as it does appear that some people are confused on the wording of the curse.
It is also worth noting that most cleric spells don't even require spell components in the first place. Many require a divine focus but most casters would have that in hand at any given time when they are in combat anyway. So it isn't even nearly as crippling as it might sound like, just keep in mind those spells with a material component that you have to retrieve it is going to take another turn to get.
Handy haversacks become effectively useless (at least the retrieval function), potions/wands/scrolls/etc. take at least a standard action to retrieve (unless you buy extra equipment like a wand bracer, which then makes those things takeable with the steal maneuver, sunderable, etc.), if you're disarmed your weapon goes flying away, if you drop a weapon to draw a different one (say to draw a ranged weapon and fire) it goes flying away...
Plus, its benefit is arguably less than the others. It adds a few spells to your list, most of which aren't great, as opposed to, say, getting blindsight or an always-on metamagic feat in addition to the other things those curses give.
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So invalidating a magical item of convenience is equal to having a permanent limp, literally rotting away, or not being able to benefit from a number of teamwork abilities?
I interpreted as items stored in a backpack, which basically would make a Handy Haversack useless for someone with the haunted curse. I think that is more on the level of the other curses, but I obviously need to get an official ruling for my Pathfinder Society character.
It also hoses ranged combat - you're only going to be able to shoot every other round, even with a longbow/shortbow.
You can't pull a potion and drink it in a single round because retrieving and drinking are both standard actions now.
It potentially causes major issues with attacks of opportunity. Drawing a weapon is a move action that does not provoke an AoO. However, if a haunted curse oracle draws a weapon as a standard action, does that provoke an AoO? It's obviously going to take greater effort in that case, which may mean an AoO is warranted.
I searched the boards, but didn't see anything official. On the other hand, a couple of posts in preview thread #2 mentioned it and I would have expected Jason to have read and responded if he noticed it and thought it was being interpreted incorrectly.
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On topic, I think that while there could be great thematic synergy between a bone Oracle and the Witch, having two casting stats is tough on the point buy.
On the side topic of the Haunted curse:
I agree with DankeSean and Glutton. None of the other curses affect your ability to cast spells, the deaf curse specifically gives you a workaround for your deafness.
Plus, "Retrieve a stored object" is an actual entry on the Action in Combat table. If you're not performing a "Retrieve Stored Item" action, I don't think the curse should be affecting you.
I feel like that's pretty definitive, short of staff jumping on the topic.
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On topic, I think that while there could be great thematic synergy between a bone Oracle and the Witch, having two casting stats is tough on the point buy.
On the side topic of the Haunted curse:
I feel like that's pretty definitive, short of staff jumping on the topic.I agree with DankeSean and Glutton. None of the other curses affect your ability to cast spells, the deaf curse specifically gives you a workaround for your deafness.
Plus, "Retrieve a stored object" is an actual entry on the Action in Combat table. If you're not performing a "Retrieve Stored Item" action, I don't think the curse should be affecting you.
Then that means it doesn't affect ranged combat either, as retrieving amunition is a free action as part of your attack.
So invalidating a magical item of convenience is equal to having a permanent limp, literally rotting away, or not being able to benefit from a number of teamwork abilities?
I interpreted as items stored in a backpack, which basically would make a Handy Haversack useless for someone with the haunted curse. I think that is more on the level of the other curses, but I obviously need to get an official ruling for my Pathfinder Society character.
It also hoses ranged combat - you're only going to be able to shoot every other round, even with a longbow/shortbow.
You can't pull a potion and drink it in a single round because retrieving and drinking are both standard actions now.
It potentially causes major issues with attacks of opportunity. Drawing a weapon is a move action that does not provoke an AoO. However, if a haunted curse oracle draws a weapon as a standard action, does that provoke an AoO? It's obviously going to take greater effort in that case, which may mean an AoO is warranted.
I searched the boards, but didn't see anything official. On the other hand, a couple of posts in preview thread #2 mentioned it and I would have expected Jason to have read and responded if he noticed it and thought it was being interpreted incorrectly.
The rules are pretty clear on this.
Retrieving a stored item is action listed under move actions. Preparing a spell component is an action listed under free actions. The Oracle curse only says it affect "Retrieving a Stored Item" this is a listed action. So you could draw a weapon, prepare a spell, load a crossbow, and such with no issues from the Oracle Curse. But try to get that potion, that's a retrieving stored item and would take a standard action for the haunted Oracle.
As for the Handy Haversack, all it does is remove the attack of opportunity. The retrieve stored item is still the same action and would be a Standard Action for the haunted Oracle as well.
Then that means it doesn't affect ranged combat either, as retrieving amunition is a free action as part of your attack.On topic, I think that while there could be great thematic synergy between a bone Oracle and the Witch, having two casting stats is tough on the point buy.
On the side topic of the Haunted curse:
I feel like that's pretty definitive, short of staff jumping on the topic.I agree with DankeSean and Glutton. None of the other curses affect your ability to cast spells, the deaf curse specifically gives you a workaround for your deafness.
Plus, "Retrieve a stored object" is an actual entry on the Action in Combat table. If you're not performing a "Retrieve Stored Item" action, I don't think the curse should be affecting you.
If you can't pull an arrow out of a whole collection of arrows, then you are completely ineffective as a character because that would mean you would take the penalty drawing your sword out of the scabard holding just the sword.
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I will assume you are still going to go for it in spite of the lack of synergy a lot of people are talking about. I do agree there is a lot of thematic synergy here.
If your GM will let you, adjust a few stats. You need a higher Charisma to make this work (15-16). Looking at what you have I would go--
Str 7
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 17
Wis 10
Cha 16
If you are using traits, get magical knack.
All the Best,
Kerney
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with the Haunted Oracle's CurseYou do know that any spell with a material component takes 2 rounds to cast with that curse right? That is unless you get eschew materials.
I am DMing over a game with a player with that curse and I have NEVER seen a player so frustrated with a class feature. Plus I throw on plenty of extra creepy just for good measure, waking the player up with a ghost child holding a flower vase over his head etc.
Not everyone agrees with this interpretation so ask you GM the way they will play it. Since retrieving a stored item is an actual combat maneuver, many say this only affects that maneuver and not spell components since you are not considered to be using the retrieving a stored item maneuver when casting spells with components; only when pulling a wand, weapon, potion, etc.
Don't let one person's opinion make up your mind. The only opinion that counts is your GM's when it comes to how this works.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't have this affect spell components if I was the GM, I don't think it was the intent of the curse. But that's just my opinion.
Let's end the debate about spell components, since there is an official errata:
Does the oracles Haunted curse (Advanced Player's Guide, page 44) affect the items in an oracle's spell component pouch?The question here is whether or not the haunted curse makes is so that to cast any spell using a material component, the oracle has to first spend a standard action to find the right material component. Fortunately for oracles everywhere, this is not the case. The items in a spell component pouch are nebulous and not defined (intentionally, so as to prevent casters from having to track the amount of bat guano they are carrying). As a result, this curse has no effect on such components. For ease of play, this extends to all material components, including expensive ones. (JMB, 8/13/10)
In addition, it's mistaken for another reason: it's a free action to draw material components. (Or do your clerics, druids and wizards all use a move action to draw their components from a belt pouch?) There's no way it would add up to two rounds with the class drawback.
In short, you've got a house rule that has your player in a state that "he's never been so frustrated." I recommend undoing the ruling, calling it your error, and describing it in game as the result of the character's prior inexperience.
On the very page you directed us towards, on the table listed free actions, it includes: "Prepare spell components to cast a spell".
It's clearly a free action to draw a component.
I recommend talking to your player.
I habitually run a character alongside my party in games I run, as a helper (or slave, at times), and currently I am doing a Gnome Oracle4/Witch3, as I rolled good enough stats for her that I could give her a high Int and Cha, with a decent dex and con (her str and wis are crap). I'm playing her as a pyromaniac- Flame Mystery (<3 Cinder Dance), Tongues curse (Ignan- she has a Raven familiar that speaks Ignan), and she is absolutely devastating, to the point where I'm considering lowering her stats so she doesn't wreak more havoc than my PCs, which is bad form.
At 8th level, I -could- go Theurge with her (you don't have to be 11th), and she could bang out one of her prepared lvl 1 Witch spells in a pinch using a lvl 2 oracle slot (of which I would have three). Probably not as awesome as getting another revelation, but the kicker about Theurge is she'd go up a caster level in Oracle and Witch at the same time. Whether or not that is better than getting more hexes and revelations is debatable.
I guess my main point here is that if you're all about min-maxing Pathfinder, stick with one class, but if you are going to multiclass and have fun with it, I can only think of a few more unique and fun to play combinations than the Witchacle.