like the title says how can you make sure that the other players keep track of the bonuses. i really enjoy the bard but this constant problem is enough of a deterrent where it isnt worth playin one
I don't actually expect the players to keep track of it. It's always been easier for me as DM/GM to just subtract from AC and add damage as needed.
I find that approach just makes players lazy and makes more work for me. It's not hard to make a temporary notation on a character sheet and then erase it once the effect is over. If bard players announce the effect, then it is a simple matter to watch and see if the other players take note of it.
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I tell the players to select their token and click Active Mods and they'll get a menu of modifiers that they can add/subtract from their PC. Once they do so it's automatic. In addition, the fact that a modifier has been applied shows up on the token when you mouseover it, so it's easy to tell which tokens have which mods but they don't get in your way when you want to look at the really nice image someone chose for their PC. ;)
(PS: This is regarding the free MapTool application from RPTools that can be used to manage encounters.)
Plus what if one of them forgets?
That's the player's problem. Most of my player's remember when the bard begins his music. A few even make a note on their sheet or on scratch paper.
If a player forgets, but before I move the next players says, "Oh! And the bonus from the bard makes that attack a 21!" then it's all good. If I've moved on to the next player already, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I've found that most players begin to remember really quickly when the others start giving them crap for forgetting, especially when it could make a significant difference.
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I normally make sure everyone has all of their modifiers added at all times (even when I'm a player), but if I have to tell them more than three times in a single session then I just start to "forget" about it. I'm the same way with people forgetting to cast defensively, or declaring the use of something like Stunning Fist, or moving through a threatened area. After having to remind someone more than a few times, I just figure they need to learn the hard way.
Plus what if one of them forgets?That's the player's problem. Most of my player's remember when the bard begins his music. A few even make a note on their sheet or on scratch paper.
If a player forgets, but before I move the next players says, "Oh! And the bonus from the bard makes that attack a 21!" then it's all good. If I've moved on to the next player already, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I've found that most players begin to remember really quickly when the others start giving them crap for forgetting, especially when it could make a significant difference.
+1. I'm already keeping track of bonuses for multiple NPCs and/or monsters. Players are responsible for keeping themselves (and each other) apprised of any positive effects that modify their rolls, just as I remind them of any negatives they currently have inflicted upon them.
Start doing this for them, and next they'll want me to be divvying treasure for them, too.
Write out a notecard for each player that gives the relevant bonuses.
Hand them out when it's in effect, and take them back when it's not.
You just need to write them once, and it's very handy to have a physical card to look at to remind me to add bonuses.
I do it for all my buff spells and it hasn't failed me yet.
Make a brightly colored cardstock tent to put in front of yourself when you're performing, marked "INSPIRE COURAGE" and listing the relevant bonuses in large text on either side. While you're at it, you could make a similar tent for other common party buffs, such as haste.
You generally need to ostentatiously point to it a couple of times, and then the other players catch on for the rest of the session.
Creative Director
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When I play a bard, I make sure to remind players "don't forget your bard bonus!" whenever they take actions. Eventually they remember. They generally DON'T get annoyed that I keep chirping up with the reminders, because who doesn't like to be reminded about bonuses to hit and damage?
But yeah; reminding folks of their bonuses is pretty much the bard's responsibility, just as it is any spellcaster who buffs the party, really.
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My daughter made a big black music note out of cardboard, and whenever there is Inspire Courage playing, she puts it on the edge of the battlemap. I am expecting she will make another one for her next bardic performance type in the near future. Anyway, it works because the player see it everytime they check their miniature during their turn.
When I play a bard, I make sure to remind players "don't forget your bard bonus!" whenever they take actions. Eventually they remember. They generally DON'T get annoyed that I keep chirping up with the reminders, because who doesn't like to be reminded about bonuses to hit and damage?
But yeah; reminding folks of their bonuses is pretty much the bard's responsibility, just as it is any spellcaster who buffs the party, really.
This is how I do it, too.
Party Fighter: "Does a 23 hit?"
Me, playing my Bard//Oracle: "Don't forget +5 from inspire courage!"
PF: "Oh yeah! Does a 28 hit?"
DM: "28 hits."
Me: "+5 to damage, too!"
Nobody seems to mind, and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy when I get to count all of that damage as mine ;)
The bards I have in my games use spin down counters. when they start, they set it to the number of rounds available, and on their action spin it down by one. They sit on the table and are pretty hard to miss, so they rarely forget, though I have one player who often forgets to turn it down on his turn.
The same spin down counters works for barbarian rage as well.
Batts
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When I play a bard, I make sure to remind players "don't forget your bard bonus!" whenever they take actions. Eventually they remember. They generally DON'T get annoyed that I keep chirping up with the reminders, because who doesn't like to be reminded about bonuses to hit and damage?
Sounds like a good idea for a GameMastery product...
wow a lot more interest in this than i expected i like the giant music note idea. thanks for the tips and keep em coming id like to see more
Plus what if one of them forgets?That's the player's problem. Most of my player's remember when the bard begins his music. A few even make a note on their sheet or on scratch paper.
If a player forgets, but before I move the next players says, "Oh! And the bonus from the bard makes that attack a 21!" then it's all good. If I've moved on to the next player already, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I've found that most players begin to remember really quickly when the others start giving them crap for forgetting, especially when it could make a significant difference.
+1 more. This is exactly how I run things. As DM I have to keep track of multiple opponents and if I forget a bonus the players benefit. The same holds true for the monsters; if the players forget their bonuses, then the monsters benefit.
I do remind new players, or at least ask the others to help the new players remember. Other than that, they can be grown up enough to figure out how to remember their bonuses.
I tell the players to select their token and click Active Mods and they'll get a menu of modifiers that they can add/subtract from their PC. Once they do so it's automatic. In addition, the fact that a modifier has been applied shows up on the token when you mouseover it, so it's easy to tell which tokens have which mods but they don't get in your way when you want to look at the really nice image someone chose for their PC. ;)
(PS: This is regarding the free MapTool application from RPTools that can be used to manage encounters.)
hehehe, that's also what I do :)
My group uses a whiteboard on an easel for combat mapping (we tend to spread ourselves around a living room instead of sitting at a table). I just leave some area of the board blank, and write in any universal bonuses like bardsong. Any individual bonuses are up to the players themselves.
My group also uses a white board as a battlemap, and we tend to write bonuses next to the initiative order.
Something like this:
Fighter 17 (bardic music, magic weapon)
Cleric 14 (divine power, bardic music)
Rogue 12 (bardic music, cats grace)
Bard 11 (bardic music)
My daughter made a big black music note out of cardboard, and whenever there is Inspire Courage playing, she puts it on the edge of the battlemap.
I love this idea. My wife plays a bard in my game (I am the DM) and I'm going to encourage her to do this. Thanks for the great idea!
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like the title says how can you make sure that the other players keep track of the bonuses. i really enjoy the bard but this constant problem is enough of a deterrent where it isnt worth playin one
At our table, any group buff spells are written on note cards (maintained by the player(s) who buff) and when the buff goes into effect, the notecard, which clearly notes the effect, is set at the edge of the gaming map.
Like James' group most of us also do verbal reminders. No one minds getting reminded that they are that much more awesome.
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This is how I do it, too.
Party Fighter: "Does a 23 hit?"
Me, playing my Bard//Oracle: "Don't forget +5 from inspire courage!"
PF: "Oh yeah! Does a 28 hit?"
DM: "28 hits."
Me: "+5 to damage, too!"Nobody seems to mind, and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy when I get to count all of that damage as mine ;)
As a fellow Bard let me tell you that yes, ALL that damage is yours! Not only are you giving these dull adventurers something good to look at, a sense of style, humour and grace, but they would be hopeless in combat without you!
I always remind everyone of the bonus on their turn.
I tend to dual class, and my character often can't hit so there is little else to do.
Next time I dual class a rogue/bard I will make the tent. I'm going to make a tent for my NPC Cleric when he can cast prayer. :)
I always struggled with this as a wizard, bard, and cleric. My solution was to build the party "buff cards." basically, I calculated their full attacks based on a variety of common buffs I liked to cast (heroes feast, haste, inspire courage, etc). Jotting down bonuses to saves and AC was easy for the players, but most of them aren't too math savvy, so attack bonuses got quickly out of hand. Each card had a common combination of buffs, and when I cast one I'd simply say "ok, now switch to the inspire courage & heroism cards, guys."
I like playing buff oriented characters, but when my buffs get lost due to forgetfulness it's sorta like invalidating my character.
We take a 3 by 5 card with the bonus writen on the card. It is placed on the board by the mini's so it is in the picture when your moving the figure. It also works well with bless, haste, and any other spell or ability that add bonuses. You just keep the card with your character and throw it out when you cast the spell.
Write down what kind of bonus it is, like circumstance, or luck, so you can add the ones that stack if there are more than one spell or ability going.