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As it states above, every build I read on here about multiclassing says don't do it, but if you did what's the best build?
Dragon Disciple is pretty cool, and there`s many many ways to do it.
Fighter/Barbarian works pretty well,
whether leaning more one way or the other (50/50 I wouldn`t recommend past low levels)
A Rogue can make good use of Ranger levels (to get 2WF and Medium Armor if STR based rather than DEX),
or some Fighter/Barb levels for melee grunt - Feats and Heavy Armor are nice, and so are extra bite attacks, besides full Martial Weaponry.
Monk is a good starting class for any melee build interested in Grappling, and Good Saves don`t hurt.
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My next campaign I am building (months off still) is one where all players will start the game at level 2, with each player having at least 1 level in Bard. The players will be members of a traveling band, and past that one level they will each have free reign. A traveling group of kickass rockers. Boss.
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Dragon Disciple is pretty cool, and there`s many many ways to do it.
Fighter/Barbarian works pretty well,
whether leaning more one way or the other (50/50 I wouldn`t recommend)
A Rogue can make good use of Ranger levels (to get 2WF if STR based rather than DEX),
or some Fighter/Barb levels for melee grunt - Feats are nice, and so are extra bite attacks.
Monk is a good starting class for any melee build interested in Grappling, and Good Saves don`t hurt.
you cant be a DD with just fighter/barb levels. you need sorc or bard levels too
Rogue/fighter for armor mastery to tumble/use skills in heavier armor with less penalty
wiz(or sorc)/cleric mystic theurge isn't the worst thing you can do IMHO
Pally/cha based caster works alright
I have messed around with a fighter/monk at lower levels, and it is amazing! Killer saves, evasion, monk unarmed strike, good skills, and something like 8 feats at 4th level! Wear light armor, use fighter weapons, and don't worry about flurry or movement. It might start to lag around 9-10th level, but it sure is great at low levels.
Two weapon fighter/rogues or ranger/rogues are cool.
1-3 level dips in barbarian, Paladin, cleric, druid, rogue, bard, ranger, monk are all good.
The hard thing is mixing the casting classes with skillmonkey and melee classes. You can add a little bard, but usually wiz or sor will kill your base attack, and armor is a big issue. Archers can be made from most of the classes or class combos to great effect.
Also, making one class act like another often works well. Fighters or barbarians with good skills, or thug rogue, cleric, druids, or bards are great.
Ranger/rogues are fun
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I'm a fan of Paladin 3/Sorcerer 2/ DD 8/ EK 7.
*CHA to saves
*17 BAB
*14 levels of casting
You could take only 2 levels of Pally and three of sorcerer, and lose one BAB and gain an additional caster level, of course.
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My next campaign I am building (months off still) is one where all players will start the game at level 2, with each player having at least 1 level in Bard. The players will be members of a traveling band, and past that one level they will each have free reign. A traveling group of kickass rockers. Boss.
My players and I have joked about something like this for a while. Half-orc drummer, elven singer, human on lead guitar, gnome keyboardist, and, of course, dwarven bassist. And my ax! ;)
And just so that I am not totally going off-topic, in the RotRL campaign I am running the characters just reached level 10, and the most powerful character by far has been the Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 5.
I'll have to press an Inquisitor/Monk together, see how that works out.
Alchemist/Monk: Anything-goes school of martial arts, Happo Fire Blast!
Ftr/Sor/EK is one I like
Ftr/summoner (W/ a dragon-looking Eidalon): Dragon Rider!
Monk/bard. Totally "imba"
One level of barbarian gives my fighter 40' of movement in heavy armor. The one level setback in my fighter class abilities was totally worth it.
Except that barbarians don't get the speed bonus when wearing heavy armour...
One level of barbarian gives my fighter 40' of movement in heavy armor. The one level setback in my fighter class abilities was totally worth it.Except that barbarians don't get the speed bonus when wearing heavy armour...
Well if it is mithril I think it would work...
Well if it is mithril I think it would work...One level of barbarian gives my fighter 40' of movement in heavy armor. The one level setback in my fighter class abilities was totally worth it.Except that barbarians don't get the speed bonus when wearing heavy armour...
Even mithril heavy armour still counts as medium which would give you a 30' movement with the speed boost.
Three levels of fighter fixes that.
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Even mithril heavy armour still counts as medium which would give you a 30' movement with the speed boost.Well if it is mithril I think it would work...One level of barbarian gives my fighter 40' of movement in heavy armor. The one level setback in my fighter class abilities was totally worth it.Except that barbarians don't get the speed bonus when wearing heavy armour...
kind of. you still need heavy armor prof to wear heavy mithral armor. (I'm glad pathfinder changed that from the 3.5 way)
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The Death Fist:
A lawful Neutral Monk/cleric that channels negative energy. Get Improved Channeling, Selective channeling, and above all else, channel smite.
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wild shape + sneak attack. umd is just to use more stuffI'm kinda partial to rogue/druid with maxed out use magic device... Kinda of funny when your opponent realizes that a badger just did sneak attack damage to you... :)Can you explain why/how this works? Maybe I'm just missing something...
Can use any arcane/divine wand if you make the DC of the UMD check. You can do this with any other class that has UMD, but how many druids do you know make wands of barkskin very often?
Hence druid is a good option to start with plus the ability to wild shape and the rogues evasion, uncanny dodge, and UMD makes it pretty good.
Yeah, to get a nice nifty little boost, a 1 level dip into barbarian for a fighter is a good choice, especially since most games don't go past level 16. You will never get your level 20 abilities, which is a crying shame! So there is zero reason not to get 1 level of barbarian.
i forgot the "quintessential ninja" rogue/monk. can work out really nicely
Yes, they definitely can!
Monk/Psychic Warrior is a great combination as well.
Fighter/rogue/duelist makes for a good swashbuckler type.
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Yeah, to get a nice nifty little boost, a 1 level dip into barbarian for a fighter is a good choice, especially since most games don't go past level 16. You will never get your level 20 abilities, which is a crying shame! So there is zero reason not to get 1 level of barbarian.
unless you wanna play a lawful character from level 1 up
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As it states above, every build I read on here about multiclassing says don't do it, but if you did what's the best build?
It depends on what you are looking to get out of the build, really. If you are looking to maximize feats/combat survivability it is usually good for most characters to pick up a few levels of Fighter regardless of the main class.
As it states above, every build I read on here about multiclassing says don't do it, but if you did what's the best build?
It´s about roleplay, not stats. At least it should be. For me the story and the basic concept of the character comes first. Then I decide which classes I need for this concept. If the character is powerful, fine. If not, it´s okay, because it´s about the fun I have while roleplaying this character.
Just my two cents. :)
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It´s about roleplay, not stats. At least it should be. For me the story and the basic concept of the character comes first. Then I decide which classes I need for this concept. If the character is powerful, fine. If not, it´s okay, because it´s about the fun I have while roleplaying this character.
I generally agree with you. In most cases both as a player and a GM I tend to either design, or encourage the design of character concepts over the numbers game. After all, a good GM tailors the game to keep it challenging and fun for the players regardless of their power level.
However, this thread does appear to be very much a min-max, power gaming question. Which has its place as well.
The Arcane Trickster looks like a bit of a puzzle on paper, but can be unexpectedly awesome in play. I'm not a big fan of "practical joker" style nonsense, but all that noise can be unskinned from the character concept - leaving you with a mashup of skills, spells and powers that have more synergy than you might expect. The AT really feels like a "multiclass character."
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The thing about multiclassing with a monk is that a monk loses ALL monk abilities when wearing any armor or using a shield. You can't get around that by adding a class proficient with armor.
He only loses most of them. He keeps evasion in light armor, and typically a +5 mithril shirt will give a higher bonus to armor than his wisdom bonus so it's not necessarily bad unless you want to flurry. Monk 2 is a great dip even if you want to wear light armor. You get stunning fist, 2 bonus feats, improved unarmed strike, and evasion for 2 levels of monk and +3 to all saves. you give up 1 BAB and possibly caster levels.
The thing about multiclassing with a monk is that a monk loses ALL monk abilities when wearing any armor or using a shield. You can't get around that by adding a class proficient with armor.
A 1 level dip can still be pretty useful for multiple classes. Good Feats, 3 Feats or so, better Unarmed Strike damage and decent skill ranks (and class skill list). Not wearing armor (which you can still do for the above benefits) doesn`t have to be the worst thing in the world, especially if you are a Druid with maxed WIS and Barkskin and Wildshape bonuses.
If you want a decent pet, at 5th level, in whatever build, just dip into Druid and use the Boon Companion feat from Seeker of Secrets to suddenly have a level 5 animal companion.
I did this for a current character, a mix of rogue/fighter/low templar. I currently have a second generation ape as my flank buddy, his father got killed by a demon.
I always joke that my very urban scuzzy half-orc took a druidic correspondence course based out of Absalom and once I passed the tests my buddy showed up out of the jungles.
We have a great time blazing our way into battle. He'll run forward with an improved overrun, which due to his large size and strength usually means the opponent is prone and in between us. Then I just waltz up and sneak attack the opponent. If the opponent disagrees with being stabbed, then my ape grapples him and holds him down so I can continue to stab away.
But this little dip works great for a whole slew of classes. If a fighter wants a decent mount that isn't going to die in one hit then it works well... or really any character build where you want an interesting pet to help you out.
One thing that is really handy is that since the animal companion starts at level 5, they get +1 stat bump. Put it into Int, and spend a skill point on common, and you or anyone in the party can talk to the pet and it'll understand everyone. That way you don't have to do handle animal checks anymore, it's basically just another character
except that now you're a druid you cant use metal armor...
As it states above, every build I read on here about multiclassing says don't do it, but if you did what's the best build?It´s about roleplay, not stats. At least it should be. For me the story and the basic concept of the character comes first. Then I decide which classes I need for this concept. If the character is powerful, fine. If not, it´s okay, because it´s about the fun I have while roleplaying this character.
Just my two cents. :)
Not at all, I actually love arcane tricksters, I love pranking in games on pc's and npc's, and they are still very effective, I was just looking to see what other people do and the reasoning for it.
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As it states above, every build I read on here about multiclassing says don't do it, but if you did what's the best build?
It really depends on what you want to do.
Charmer:
Bard 4/Cleric (Shelyn) 6/Mystic Theurge 10 (BAB +12; Spells as Bard 14 and Cleric 16)
Cleric (Asmodeus) 7/Enchanter 3/Mystic Theurge 10 (BAB +11; Spells as Cleric 17 and Enchanter 13)
Combat Arcanists:
Bard 7/Ranger 3/Arcane Archer 10 (BAB +18; Spells as Bard 14)
Fighter 5/Sorcerer 5/Arcane Archer 10 (BAB +17; Spells as Sorcerer 12)
Bard 9/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 10 (BAB +17; Spells as Bard 18)
Barbarian 2/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10 (BAB +17; Spells as Sorcerer 16)*
Transmuter 5/Ranger 1/Eldritch Knight 10/Loremaster 4 (BAB +15; Spells as Transmuter 18)
*- For the most part, I feel that you reach the point of diminishing returns for combat purposes after 4 levels of Dragon Disciple; losing the BAB (compared to Eldritch Knight) and additional spell progression are IMO just not worth the extra abilities. YMMV.
Divine Archer:
Cleric (Erastil) 18/Fighter 2 (BAB +15; Spells as Cleric 18)
Divine Warrior:
Cleric (Iomedae) 17/Paladin 3 (BAB +15; Spells as Cleric 17; Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, Divine Health)
Fighter 12/Cleric (Gorum) 8 (BAB +18; Spells as Cleric 8)
Fiend Hunter:
Ranger 2/Paladin 18 (BAB +20; Spells as Paladin 18; Favored Enemy is Dragon, Evil Outsider, or Undead)
Magical Thief:
Wizard 7/Rogue 3/Arcane Trickster 10 (BAB +10; Spells as Wizard 17; Sneak Attack +7d6)
Rogue 4/Sorcerer 6/Arcane Trickster 10 (BAB +11; Spells as Sorcerer 16; Sneak Attack +7d6)
Nature's Warrior:
Barbarian 12/Druid 8 (BAB +18; Spells as Druid 8)
Druid 17/Rogue 3 (BAB +14; Spells as Druid 17; Sneak Attack +2d6)
Monk 2/Druid 18 (BAB +14; Spells as Druid 18)
Ninja:
Monk 9/Rogue 11 (BAB +14, Flurry +14/+14/+9/+9; Improved Evasion, Sneak Attack +6d6)
Monk 9/Rogue 3/Shadowdancer 8 (BAB +14, Flurry +14/+14/+9/+9; Improved Evasion, Sneak Attack +2d6)
Sage:
Wizard 3/Cleric (Nethys) 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Loremaster 4 (BAB +10; Spells as Wizard 17 and Cleric 13 OR Wizard 13 and Cleric 17 OR Wizard 15 and Cleric 15)
Bard 2/Wizard 8/Loremaster 10 (BAB +10; Spells as Bard 2 and Wizard 18)
Summoner:
Conjurer 7/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 10 (BAB +10; Spells as Conjurer 17 and Druid 13)
Two-Weapon Fighting:
Barbarian 2/Ranger 6/Rogue 3/Fighter 9 (BAB +19; Sneak Attack +2d6; 15 Dex, high Str, take Animal Fury as a Rage Power and Double Slice and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting with Combat Style feats)
Some good choices for multiclassing:
Barbarian- 1-2 levels for Fast Movement (especially for dwarves and small races), Rage (and possibly a Rage Power), and possibly Uncanny Dodge
Bard- 1-2 levels for Whip Proficiency, access to several useful spells, Bardic Performance, and possibly Versatile Performance (use one skill in place of two)
Fighter- 1-4 levels for bonus feats and possibly Armor Training and Weapon Specialization
Monk- 2 levels for Unarmed Attacks, Stunning Fist, Evasion, and bonus feats
Paladin- 2-3 levels for Smite Evil, Divine Grace, and possibly Aura of Courage and Divine Health
Ranger- 1-3 levels for Favored Enemy and possibly Combat Style and Favored Terrain
Rogue- 1-3 levels for Sneak Attack and possibly Evasion
Primary casting classes (cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard) are usually not good choices for "dipping," since you gain very little (comparatively). IMO, if you do multiclass with a primary casting class, either spells are a primary focus (i.e., spell progression as a 12-18 level caster) or at least as good (in spell level) as a paladin or ranger (i.e., spell progression as a 7-8 level caster for 4th level spells).
Hmm, monk/paladin could be worth it though, just for the smite + flurry of blows awesomeness.
Doesnt seem like the play test character made it on here, do they not multiclass well, or is it there probability of change?