Well I'm be playing Pathfinder for the first time this weekend via Pathfinder Society play! I'm going to play a specialist Wizard. While the generalist is very tempting for not having any school restrictions, I can't get past having an extra spell at each level to cast.
I'm uncertain which school I'll specialize in but I'm really having a hard time deciding the two opposition schools, and I could use some advice. I have decided to drop enchantment for sure (but it's hard to lose Heroism). I just need to figure out the last one.
Let me add some points to consider:
1. I'm more concerned right now with lower level play. This is a Pathfinder Society PC and obviously won't get up to level 15. It will probably be awhile before I see 4th level spells anyway so perhaps it's best to constrain the analysis to 3rd level and lower.
2. I'm aiming not to be a nuker so I don't want to take the obvious evocation specialist. I fashion myself as making others in group better and debuffing my foes. But it seems to me that sometimes a fireball is what is needed, so I don't want to have evocation as an opposition school. Does that seem like a sound idea? I do plan on having Arcane Bond with a staff and maybe evocation is best used with AB. I can use it when I need it but prepare spells that fit the concept of a Wizard I'm aiming for.
There's great spells in all the schools. I don't know what other opposition school to take. I was thinking necromancy (I really love the debuffs though) or Illusion (hurts to lose displacement though).
I guess I could ask for Feat advice as well. I'll get Spell Focus for free at first level in exchange for scribe scoll (not allowed in Society play). I'll also play human. That leaves me with two other feats. My inclination is to load up on "wizardy" type feats but is it a mistake to overlook improving my saving throws?
One other question... sorry. I keep thinking of something else to ask. If you look at the level 1 pregens for Pathfinder Society play, we find our Iconic Wizard Ezren--Human with an 18 INT. For skills, the Wiz gets 2 + INT bonus. So Ezren gets 6 skills ranks. Here are the listed skills for Ezren:
Knowledge (arcana) + 8
Knowledge (geo) + 8
Knowledge (hist) + 8
Knowledge (local) + 8
Spellcraft + 8
Perception + 3
That's 6 skills for the 6 skill ranks. However, as a human, doesn't Ezren get an extra skill rank at level 1 (and every level after)?
Thanks for the advice.
Keep in mind you can still learn and cast spells from your opposition schools now. They take two slots in the place of one... so you can still get a few key spells you want... but you basically lose you bonus spell for that level (keep in mind one spell must still be from you favored school.)
Some of the good schools to lose are Enchantment, Necromancy, and maybe Conjuration if you are not a fan of Summon spells. But it really boils down to what type of spells you like to use. Illusions, Charms, Necromancy, Transmutation are all good for some players... and others hate them.
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If you are looking at debuff I hate to contridict someone else but Thazar is giving bad advice (partially).
Most of your really good debuff spells are in conjuration and Necromancy. At lower level (the ranges you are looking at) enchantment is easy to give away do to its high risk low impact nature (at levels below 13 at least).
Evocation is honestly a fairly easy school to throw away if you don't want much boom. Honestly in most cases conjuration or necromancy will have a spell that will work in damaging things, and if not like Thazar stated you could have a spell double slotted (like fireball) or on a staff.
Other schools that would be fairly easy to drop in your level range:
Divination -- yes it has lots of spells that can be really useful, but at lower level you just can't really afford to spend many slots on them -- so instead just get scrolls, wands or the like with these spells. As a school of specialization Divination is nice, but if you aren't specializing in it you can dump it.
Abjuration -- This one is tricky, it has a lot of spells you think you are going to want, dispel magic resist energy, shield, etc... but the question is what would you rather do with that slot? You could waste it on these reactive measures (for the most part) or you could use it to make it so the enemy can't do anything instead. Also since you can still use these spells off of items (and they generally don't improve or do so at set intervals) you can again get away with simply using consumables for the most part here.
I would hold onto transmutation -- when you can't debuff or battle field control with conjuration or necromancy you can always buff with transmutation, and several of these spells have effects (or number of targets) that are based on caster level (as well as fairly short durations) which means you are going to want a good caster level when you cast one (i.e. not a consumable). Also there are several good trouble shooting spells in this school (just as there are in conjuration and necromancy) which means you generally find *something* to do here.
When I'm making a specialist wizard, I write down the spells that I'd like to prepare daily, keeping in mind that scrolls and wands can be used for spells that I don't need to prepare daily or that I'm not worries about DCs. Note which school each spell is. When completed, look for multiple spells of the same school at each level - this is my specialty school. Sometimes it's not what I expected when conceiving my character concept. Then look for schools that don't show up often or at all at each level. These are your opposition schools. Sometimes you'll have only a few spells of a certain school that you'd like to prepare. Can you afford to make that school opposition and then just devote two slots to prepare these spells?
One more thing to keep in mind: At each level up you get two free spells to write into your spellbook - one of which must be from your specialty school. So, not only do you have to prepare one spell from your specialty school at each spell level, but you have at least two specialty school spells in your spellbook of each spell level.
I appreciate the advice. I don't have a great feel yet for how all these spells will play out. I think I'll specialize in Conjuration and have Enchantment and Evocation in opposition.
One more thing to keep in mind: At each level up you get two free spells to write into your spellbook - one of which must be from your specialty school. So, not only do you have to prepare one spell from your specialty school at each spell level, but you have at least two specialty school spells in your spellbook of each spell level.
This part is incorrect. Other than that some really solid advice.
I appreciate the advice. I don't have a great feel yet for how all these spells will play out. I think I'll specialize in Conjuration and have Enchantment and Evocation in opposition.
Good choice.
Consider Elf or Tiefling (if it's allowed) as a race tho, not only is the + to AC good, it's also a + to your ranged touch attacks.
Plus if you're an elf your Spellcraft and ability to penetrate SR is better.
So you miss out on a feat, meh. Feats aren't what make good Wizards, spells are.
Can anyone address the skill ranks issue I brought up at the end of my first post? Ezren seems to be missing a rank. I don't know why I'm off one rank.
Can anyone address the skill ranks issue I brought up at the end of my first post? Ezren seems to be missing a rank. I don't know why I'm off one rank.
You're right, a Human Wizard with 18 Int should have 7 skill points/lvl.
One more thing to keep in mind: At each level up you get two free spells to write into your spellbook - one of which must be from your specialty school. So, not only do you have to prepare one spell from your specialty school at each spell level, but you have at least two specialty school spells in your spellbook of each spell level.This part is incorrect. Other than that some really solid advice.
Why is that part incorrect?
I almost always drop Divination and Abjuration, I am partial to charm spells and the like so I usually keep Enchantment. You should really try for that 20 Int, that +1 on d/c is nice as are the other perks of a higher Int.
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If you are looking at debuff I hate to contridict someone else but Thazar is giving bad advice (partially).
Most of your really good debuff spells are in conjuration and Necromancy. At lower level (the ranges you are looking at) enchantment is easy to give away do to its high risk low impact nature (at levels below 13 at least).
I am in agreement with Abraham on this one. I think Necromancy is nicer than a lot of people give it credit for, but conjuration has too much in the way of good spells (especially battlefield control spells) to ignore. Even my specialist evoker "sub-specializes" in conjuration since it makes keeping people in position for his "heavy hitters" easier. I would never give up conjuration unless I had a really, really good in-character reason to do so. Its versatility is just too important to ignore.
Evocation is honestly a fairly easy school to throw away if you don't want much boom. Honestly in most cases conjuration or necromancy will have a spell that will work in damaging things, and if not like Thazar stated you could have a spell double slotted (like fireball) or on a staff.
Agreed. Unless you're specifically making a mage to go boom evocation is an easy school to lose. There are plenty of alternatives to cause damage should you need to (interestingly almost all in the conjuration school). I'd put Evocation pretty high on the dump list, especially if you're not planning on blowing crap up.
Divination -- yes it has lots of spells that can be really useful, but at lower level you just can't really afford to spend many slots on them -- so instead just get scrolls, wands or the like with these spells. As a school of specialization Divination is nice, but if you aren't specializing in it you can dump it.
I used to agree with this, but now I'm not so sure. Divination is one of my prohibited schools on my evoker, and it REALLY limits my cantrip selections. If I take light or ray of frost (since I need an evocation spell), that only leaves three spell slots, and both read magic and detect magic require two since they're prohibited. It's not super-problematic, but it's been less than ideal on more than one occasion and if you're like me and like to rely on scrolls, it's annoying.
Abjuration -- This one is tricky, it has a lot of spells you think you are going to want, dispel magic resist energy, shield, etc... but the question is what would you rather do with that slot? You could waste it on these reactive measures (for the most part) or you could use it to make it so the enemy can't do anything instead. Also since you can still use these spells off of items (and they generally don't improve or do so at set intervals) you can again get away with simply using consumables for the most part here.
Abjuration is on my short list of easily dumpable schools. It's a strong school in some ways, especially if you're in a campaign where you often have time to prepare for fights, but if you're being surprised a lot, you're better of casting glitterdust, stinking cloud, or some other save or suck spell than buffing yourself. Buffing can be good, but I think it becomes situational at times.
I would hold onto transmutation -- when you can't debuff or battle field control with conjuration or necromancy you can always buff with transmutation, and several of these spells have effects (or number of targets) that are based on caster level (as well as fairly short durations) which means you are going to want a good caster level when you cast one (i.e. not a consumable). Also there are several good trouble shooting spells in this school (just as there are in conjuration and necromancy) which means you generally find *something* to do here.
Like conjuration, transmutation is on my "don't ever take this as a prohibited school unless you have a very good in-character reason" school. The spells are just to diverse and useful (haste, fly, knock, fox's cunning) to skip.
In all honesty, unless it fits your build, I find enchantment to be the dumpestable (I love making up words) of the schools. Don't get me wrong, the spells are wonderfully useful, but if you're not thinking of being an enchanter and pumping up the requisite abilities, I think there could be other spells, more suitable for a non-enchanter to cast.
My choices of schools to consider would be: Abjuration, Enchantment (though on it's own it's pretty cool), Evocation (though on it's own it's okay), Necromancy
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One more thing to keep in mind: At each level up you get two free spells to write into your spellbook - one of which must be from your specialty school. So, not only do you have to prepare one spell from your specialty school at each spell level, but you have at least two specialty school spells in your spellbook of each spell level.This part is incorrect. Other than that some really solid advice.
I see three potential statements that could be construed as "incorrect"; however all are correct.
1. You get to free spells to write into your spellbook per level.
At each new wizard level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new wizard level) for his spellbook.
2. You must learn one of your two "free" spells as a specialty school spell.
A lot of people (including myself until just a few months ago) miss this one.
Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school
3. You must prepare one spell from your specialty school per spell level.
Each arcane school gives the wizard a number of school powers. In addition, specialist wizards receive an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, a wizard can prepare a spell from his specialty school in that slot. This spell must be in the wizard’s spellbook. A wizard can select a spell modified by a metamagic feat to prepare in his school slot, but it uses up a higher-level spell slot. Wizards with the universalist school do not receive a school slot.
This character is going toward mystic Theurge druid and wizard (divination)
The opposition schools for me were a role-playing choice. They were evocation and necromancy....
Reasons evocation just destroys whatever is in the area of effect and necromancy is against the natural order of things.
My 2 cents is also consider the character and make the choice based on mechanics and Role-playing......
Main problem with dumping Evocation: Wall Spells. Of course, if he really does only play first few levels that won't be a problem.
2. You must learn one of your two "free" spells as a specialty school spell.
A lot of people (including myself until just a few months ago) miss this one.
Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school3. You must prepare one spell from your specialty school per spell level.
Each arcane school gives the wizard a number of school powers. In addition, specialist wizards receive an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up. Each day, a wizard can prepare a spell from his specialty school in that slot. This spell must be in the wizard’s spellbook. A wizard can select a spell modified by a metamagic feat to prepare in his school slot, but it uses up a higher-level spell slot. Wizards with the universalist school do not receive a school...
Well it was point number 2 that I meant was incorrect, however it was actually myself that was in the wrong -- thank you for correcting my misconception.
On the last part, a minor thing -- you could simply choose to not use that slot, and now that the APG is out, you could use that empty slot as your sacrifice slot for arcane blast, or arcane shield.
Yes this would be a very lousy choice however.
This character is going toward mystic Theurge druid and wizard (divination)
The opposition schools for me were a role-playing choice. They were evocation and necromancy....
Reasons evocation just destroys whatever is in the area of effect and necromancy is against the natural order of things.
My 2 cents is also consider the character and make the choice based on mechanics and Role-playing......
As much as I hate to see necromancy let go, I think these are solid choices all the same. You have plenty of good magic to back you up still.
AS long as you don't lose Conjuration or Illusion, you should be fine since those schools have the iconic encounter-winning spells at lower levels.
This character is going toward mystic Theurge druid and wizard (divination)
The opposition schools for me were a role-playing choice. They were evocation and necromancy....
Reasons evocation just destroys whatever is in the area of effect and necromancy is against the natural order of things.
My 2 cents is also consider the character and make the choice based on mechanics and Role-playing......
This is exactly how I determine what schools to give up. When I played an evoker in 2nd Edition I had to choose two schools to give up out of Illusion, Enchantment, and Necromancy. I chose Illusion and Enchantment because he was not going to be a subtle character. Those schools didn't fit the concept. I do the same thing now. I determine what the character would do, not what it best mechanically.
Write scrolls of the opposition spells you want the most. : )
I was having the same debate as the original poster. So I decided to list out all of the blue, "must have", spells by Treantmonk's Guide. This help me narrow my decision down to Adjuration, Divination, Enchantment and Universal.
My final decision.
Special: Conjuration
Opposition: Adjuration, Universal
Adjuration for Protection from _____/Mages Disjunction
Conjuration for Phantom Steed/Sleet Storm/Stinking Cloud/Summon Monster 3/Black Tentacles/Summon Monster 4/Planar Binding,Lesser/Wall of Stone/Planar Binding/ Summon Monster 6/Summon Monster 7/Summon Monster 9
Divination for Detect Magic/Read Magic/Arcane Sight, Greater
Enchantment for Confusion
Evocation for Wall of Force/Contigency/Grasping Hand
Illusion for Color Spray/Silenct Image/Invisibily/Ghost Sound/Programmed Image/Project Image
Necromancy for Magic Jar/Clone/Astral Projection
Transmutation for Fly/Haste/Slow/Telekinesis/Reverse Gravity/Form of Dragon3/Polymorph and Object/Time Stop
Universal for Prestigation
^Also from guides linked from Zenith Games: As an inspection of the spells listed under Necromancy just above shows, most of what you want in Necromancy is at later levels, so just choose that as one of your Opposition Schools, and then get Opposition Research (Wizard Discovery) when you get to 9th or 10th Level.
Oddly, that didn't stop us from performing Necromancy on this thread . . . .
I always pick Divination as one of my opposed schools. A majority, if not all of that school's spells could be cast "tomorrow" after you've had a chance to rest and study so there's no real reason to have them memorized on a regular basis. In that case having to double up on spell slots won't have that much of an impact. As far as the other school, I'd have to say personal preference, they all have one or two iconic spells. Oh, and as someone mentioned, scrolls.
It just depends on your role, personality, and character concept.
As a side note, if I were DMing a group I wouldn't allow Universal to be an opposition school. That's what, 5 spells? Not enough to count.
Have fun.
Universal does not count as an opposition school: it is the default 'school' for wizards who do not choose to specialise in any school.
Strangely, this is not explicitly explained anywhere that I can see in the pages about arcane schools. And leaving it merely implied means that newer players might get confused and newer GMs might allow it.