If I were trying to get a new person into Pathfinder, I would probably start them out as a blaster sorcerer. (A 3.5 Warmage, if allowed.) They'll have ONE thing to do a round, won't have to worry too much about their own movement, and their spell list will be small enough they'll be able to learn it. And hit point damage is probably the easiest thing for a newbie to understand as useful. Sure, they'll have to learn not to fireball the fighter, but EVERYBODY loves it when that happens. :)
You could also make a simple melee fighter, but even the simplest melee fighter has to worry about movement, getting in other peoples' way, provoking AOO, letting the rogue get flank, not letting the enemies get flank, and constantly being asked, "Does a ## hit you?"
Starting a new player as a cleric is pretty much the worst of both worlds. It's a complex class requiring familiarity with how to use the magic system (concentration is more important if you're close enough to heal your friends or to fight the enemy), prepared spell lists (I know people who've been playing thirty years who can't keep their prepared spells up to date) from a WIDE variety of combat, healing, and utility spells, and possibly melee or ranged fighting as well. Add in the temptation to the other players to force the new player into the boringest role ever (healbot) and... why would anyone stick with the game?
Off-topic, I want to thank the people here saying feminist things; Lindisty in particular is my new hero for
Sure, I'll admit to a fair amount of exasperation, because it bugs me when people deny my existence.
Also, from the other stuff you've written I'm pretty sure you know this already, but let me remind you that "more sarcasm than strictly required" is any sarcasm, in the eyes of those whose assumptions you're challenging.
Now, for the guys:Yeah. She's a chick. She's got boobs. She doesn't think with them. She's here to learn the game, she's here to have fun. She is not here for you to make cutting comments about, hit on, flirt with, make awkward jokes, or feel superior to because you have every feat every published in 3.5 memorized.
Yes. There's something novel and new here. You don't have to piss all over it to prove your alpha male tendencies. Yes, I know, you want to. At last there is something in the hierarchical pack that might be lower than you.
Get. Over. It.
(I still want to see a...
Sorry I'm late.
Ask and ye shall receive!
I sense some stereotyping going on on the other side right now (yes, I know you're male, but you're attacking our gender, so for the sake of the argument I will put you on the 'other side'). I don't know if you're joking, but you wouldn't laugh if we berated females, even in jest. It's rude, and has been done. In fact, it's tantamount to trolling. So how about you stop acting like you're enlightened and try a little politeness yourself.
*laugh* I make no claims to enlightenment. None.
I use confrontational prose stylings to make someone think.
To reiterate:
Subtle signs of displeasure aren't generally going to work in a gaming group. If something isn't working, the onus is on the unhappy player to say something.
Most of the obnoxious male behaviors at a game table when women are involved stem from insecurity and a crazy attempt to 'impress' the woman.
Be aware of both of these behavior patterns and correct for them when introducing new gamers to a group.
(Which was the apparently too subtle joke about the Dog Whisperer.)
So you're a puffin. Good for you.To add to the big ol' pile of anecdotal evidence... I've gamed with quite a few women over the years...{breathlessly} Tell me about it, stud! ;)*AHEM!*
*Points at Screen Name*
So what was your name before you had it legally changed to Kobold?
<snicker>
I'd make a comeback taunt, but puffins are pretty much the saddest excuses for birds there are (ignoring the kiwis, which are mammals). I don't pity you, of course (though resisting the urge is difficult), it's just that nobody would ever change their name to that.
EDIT: That wasn't 'confrontational prose stylings'. That's just making people check your profile to see if that is your one and only post, if you take my meaning. Confrontational prose isn't meant to be so aggressive other posters want to report you.
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I was dating my guy, an avid gamer and the DM, for four months before joing a game, as an npc.
After I realized I came up with some good ideas and pointed out good mechanics (the mauruit I was playing could see over the building we were hiding behind for line of sight because he was taller than the building - epic game), I was convinced to do a solo game. It was extremely weird at first. I was very involved in the making of the character, including the stats, spells, and the personality, background, etc.
It also helped my bf was the dm and had obviously done this a million times with other newbie gamers.
I joined a mid-level game with that character.
I am mostly turned off by guys who can't piece a sentence together correctly, stutter, or in any other way act like an idiot just because there is a girl around.
Focus on the fun part of it, and don't try to make it "cool." D&D is not cool, but it is really fun. If she's an intelligent type (already has the dork/geek/nerd stigma attached), likes fantasy movies, like video games, or reads fantasy books, it will be a lot easier to get her interested.
Oh, and flirting might or might not work, she may think you're a creep. Show much caution.
How do you get a lady to dig Pathfinder?
Me? I do it by showing up. You see I'm one of those brothers who gets by on a wink and a smile.
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Speaking of minis, be sure to have at least 6 well painted lady-minis on hand of the following variety: two sorcerers, one druid, one bard, one chick with fairy wings and one paladin. You can paint these using any colors, but deep purples and blues are ideal.
good idea, actually. pick some that are decent, fully clothed, and others that are the typical d&d style. no succubus.
Now lets get the books. D&D is a frightening hobby to women largely because of the math; as we all know math is difficult for little girls and it doesn't get any easier for them as they mature. It's embarrassing and, 99% of the time, it's the biggest challenge in attracting and maintaining female gamers.
This would be incredibly insulting if it was true. Instead it is just unenlightened.
The sachet stuff and the special books are silly. Do make your place smell decent - no feet or smoke or moldy food smells. We *are* more sensitive to smells.
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So you're a puffin. Good for you.To add to the big ol' pile of anecdotal evidence... I've gamed with quite a few women over the years...{breathlessly} Tell me about it, stud! ;)*AHEM!*
*Points at Screen Name*
So what was your name before you had it legally changed to Kobold?
<snicker>
I'd make a comeback taunt, but puffins are pretty much the saddest excuses for birds there are (ignoring the kiwis, which are mammals). I don't pity you, of course (though resisting the urge is difficult), it's just that nobody would ever change their name to that.
EDIT: That wasn't 'confrontational prose stylings'. That's just making people check your profile to see if that is your one and only post, if you take my meaning. Confrontational prose isn't meant to be so aggressive other posters want to report you.
Naw, we just let our girlfriends name us. I've been Studpuffin almost six years now... or is it seven? Uh oh, better go check the calendar!
Off-topic, I want to thank the people here saying feminist things;
You're welcome. It means a lot to me to know that my voice is heard, so thank you for pointing this out.
Lindisty in particular is my new hero forSure, I'll admit to a fair amount of exasperation, because it bugs me when people deny my existence.Also, from the other stuff you've written I'm pretty sure you know this already, but let me remind you that "more sarcasm than strictly required" is any sarcasm, in the eyes of those whose assumptions you're challenging.
Yeah, I know. But as tiring as it sometimes is to act on it, I'm a subscriber to the 'well-behaved women rarely make history' school of thought.
I just made a giant post o're at EN World on this very subject, so let's play the CTRL+C CTRL+V game! :D
There are three easy steps to getting more girls into gaming
1) Don't be a creep, make sure your group isn't made of creeps. Potentially the hardest step! We all know someone in the local gaming community that we do not want to associate ourselves with. Unfortunately, we still do. That's the catch - it takes just one creephat to inflict the stigma on everyone around. Cruel as this may sound, distance your game from the creepers - or better yet, confront the guy and flat out say, "Look, you need to cut back on the <whatever> comments, ok?" Don't just quietly hope problems with magically disappear on their own. Who we associate ourselves with is how we're seen, and if you don't want to associate with someone, then don't.
2) Don't be a creep, stop thinking of them in terms of gender. Don't whinge that all the scaaaaaaaaaary numbers are going to frighten the innocent and pure damsels you wish to bring into the fold, because oh my god that's so freaking creepy. When you try to build your idea around "Well they're girls, so, you know, they're different," guess what? That's creepy. Imagine yourself trying to explain that to the person in general. "We need to treat you differently because of your genetalia." Can you think of a way of saying it that isn't creepy?
3) Ask them. Human beings are individuals, regardless of ethnicity, gender, sex, religion, culture, race, etc, etc, etc. Women do not have one massive hivemind. Ask individuals what they like - you know, the same thing you'd (hopefully) do for new male gamers. And that's perhaps the most hilarious(ly depressing) thing; people at times whinge about how women just want to talk and roleplay out and never have combat, but I guran-damn-tee you that your male players want to do that stuff too. We dudes don't just want all hack and slash all the time! In fact, no small number of male gamers simply aren't into a lot of combat at all!
So why is number 1 the hardest? Because gaming itself has built the stigma around itself willfully. Chainmail bikinis, damsels in distress, crude pinup art, etc, etc. People love to point at loincloth barbarians to claim it's even, but it's not. Men in fantasy art are traditionally hyper-masculanized. Their strength and power is accentuated. Rippling biceps and stanecs of authority and whatnot. Women in fantasy art are traditionally hypersexualised. Plush, open lips, Swelling breasts, swayed back, you know the drill. Imagine if Conan was drawn in such a way - it would be ridiculous! The same problem hits video games. People look at female gamers and say "Well they play the Sims, clearly that's the only type of game they like," and then ignore that every other game has you playing a big buff manly macho space marine who runs around and waves their dinglybits at aliens nonstop. The Sims lets a character at least be female. is it no surprise that one of the more popular genres with female gamers lies in RPGs, especially western RPGs where you can create your own character?
Claiming that only guys play games is a self fulfilling tragedy. The more you believe it, the more you, consciously or unconsciously, build games to target only men, which draw in mostly just guys, which only fuels the belief. Let's not forget the hilarious sales flop from TSR that was the Heartquest books.
Now, it's not all gaming's fault. Certainly the hypersexualization in society as well as the still existing cultural norms that force gender roles are a problem. But dammit all, we were born as the sub-culture for people who didn't fit in - isn't it our job to fight against the norm we dislike so much?
You want to bring more women into gaming? Start accepting them. Stop seeing them as "girl games" and see them as "gamers."
Personally, I'm waiting for the topic on how to bring more men into different types of gaming. Oh, wait, even better - how to bring more transgendered people into gaming. Now that one will be fun!
Edit: Fixed tags
1) Don't be a creep, make sure your group isn't made of creeps. Potentially the hardest step! We all know someone in the local gaming community that we do not want to associate ourselves with. Unfortunately, we still do.
Are you familiar with the Five Geek Social Fallacies? This post made me think of #1 and #2, particularly.
how to bring more transgendered people into gaming
Honestly, you don't have to try very hard. I (and friends in the same boat) tend to gravitate toward any sort of roleplaying, because it lets us be who we feel, not what people see.
The tough part about this is doing it face to face. You need to make sure to be accepting and sensitive to the fact that transgendered people (in my experience at least) are extremely insecure in face to face social situations.
If you have one of us at your table (and many more people do than realize it, but this is more when you do realize it), the number one thing I can advise is to treat us as the gender that we identify with, regardless of our biological parts. That's quite possibly one of the biggest reasons we're roleplaying - we want to be treated as the sex opposite the one nature gave us, so, y'know, do that.
And definitely don't treat us like some sort of sideshow freaks...we already feel bad enough about ourselves without adding that sort of thing into the mix.
Anyway, I didn't mean to sidetrack this thread, just wanted to put that out there.
how to bring more transgendered people into gamingHonestly, you don't have to try very hard. I (and friends in the same boat) tend to gravitate toward any sort of roleplaying, because it lets us be who we feel, not what people see.
The tough part about this is doing it face to face. You need to make sure to be accepting and sensitive to the fact that transgendered people (in my experience at least) are extremely insecure in face to face social situations.
If you have one of us at your table (and many more people do than realize it, but this is more when you do realize it), the number one thing I can advise is to treat us as the gender that we identify with, regardless of our biological parts. That's quite possibly one of the biggest reasons we're roleplaying - we want to be treated as the sex opposite the one nature gave us, so, y'know, do that.
And definitely don't treat us like some sort of sideshow freaks...we already feel bad enough about ourselves without adding that sort of thing into the mix.
Anyway, I didn't mean to sidetrack this thread, just wanted to put that out there.
I didn't mean the last bit seriously. It was more of a joke at how these threads always seem to pop up, and they're always asking on how to get girls involved. To some degree it's dark humor, as the question itself highlights one of the big problems - by asking "How do I get girls involved?" we're setting them apart as being different from other people.
Change it to "How to get black people into gaming" and you can see the parallels better, I think.
Also I had a lot of junk here about gaming and nerd-dom and forward thinking, but it was eaten by the forums, and thankfully so, as it wasn't very well written :p
Edit: To quote a M->F friend of mine who plays D&D, "The only difference between us is that I'm more honest about my wish fulfillment when playing a female"
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Not sure if this has been brought up before in the thread. But chloroform and fear of electric shock will more than likely work.
Alternatively,
Make the first part of the adventure entirely about equipping your her character. What boots go with that armour? Should the sword scabbard be worn on the right hip or across the shoulder? Never under estimate the power of accessories either!
Or failing that, try asking nicely if she will have a go, centre the adventure around the aspects of role-playing you think she would most enjoy, get some nice friends who play for fun to help, and see how it goes.
S.
Not sure if this has been brought up before in the thread. But chloroform and fear of electric shock will more than likely work.
Alternatively,
Make the first part of the adventure entirely about equipping your her character. What boots go with that armour? Should the sword scabbard be worn on the right hip or across the shoulder? Never under estimate the power of accessories either!
Or failing that, try asking nicely if she will have a go, centre the adventure around the aspects of role-playing you think she would most enjoy, get some nice friends who play for fun to help, and see how it goes.
S.
I really hope this is some joke, seriously!
In like a dozen years of playing this I've never wondered that (except IRL) and other girl gamers I've met either.Most importantly if you want to have girl gamers then first step is to get socially confortable with girls all around before you try to play liek a game and don't get nervous or try to impress them and try to get rid of this 'i want a girl gamer' though or feeling 'cos any average girl will feel it a mile away on her 'creepiness' radar (which, mind you, is ten times stronger than the guy's radar) and it will freak her out instantly.
I didn't mean the last bit seriously. It was more of a joke at how these threads always seem to pop up, and they're always asking on how to get girls involved. To some degree it's dark humor, as the question itself highlights one of the big problems - by asking "How do I get girls involved?" we're setting them apart as being different from other people.
Change it to "How to get black people into gaming" and you can see the parallels better, I think.
Also I had a lot of junk here about gaming and nerd-dom and forward thinking, but it was eaten by the forums, and thankfully so, as it wasn't very well written :p
Edit: To quote a M->F friend of mine who plays D&D, "The only difference between us is that I'm more honest about my wish fulfillment when playing a female"
Ah...apparently my joke detection is off today. *blushes* Well, um...yeah, I'll just be...over there...
Ah...apparently my joke detection is off today. *blushes* Well, um...yeah, I'll just be...over there...I didn't mean the last bit seriously. It was more of a joke at how these threads always seem to pop up, and they're always asking on how to get girls involved. To some degree it's dark humor, as the question itself highlights one of the big problems - by asking "How do I get girls involved?" we're setting them apart as being different from other people.
Change it to "How to get black people into gaming" and you can see the parallels better, I think.
Also I had a lot of junk here about gaming and nerd-dom and forward thinking, but it was eaten by the forums, and thankfully so, as it wasn't very well written :p
Edit: To quote a M->F friend of mine who plays D&D, "The only difference between us is that I'm more honest about my wish fulfillment when playing a female"
Hahaha, naw, no worries. I had this big long essay of ALL SERIOUS and then tried to squeeze in a half-joke at the end - it didn't work out for me ;p
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I'm going to go against the grain here.
Don't be a creep? No, do be a creep. If you're a foul mouthed dork, continue being a foul mouthed dork. If you make stupid, off color jokes in the presence of your friends, keep it up. The last thing a new player wants is to feel like they've joined a church dating pool full of fat guys suddenly tucking in their shirts and minding their manners.
Any future gaming girl worth her salt can handle a few creeps just fine.
Not sure if this has been brought up before in the thread. But chloroform and fear of electric shock will more than likely work.
Alternatively,
Make the first part of the adventure entirely about equipping your her character. What boots go with that armour? Should the sword scabbard be worn on the right hip or across the shoulder? Never under estimate the power of accessories either!
Or failing that, try asking nicely if she will have a go, centre the adventure around the aspects of role-playing you think she would most enjoy, get some nice friends who play for fun to help, and see how it goes.
Nice satire. Well done. I hope the OP and other readers get to the third paragraph. :)
Your second suggestion, sadly, reminds me of "Confessions of a Part Time Sorceress" or whatever the heck that horrifying book that WotC put out was to "attract girl gamers." That book was a great illustration of what not to do.
I'm going to go against the grain here.
Don't be a creep? No, do be a creep. If you're a foul mouthed dork, continue being a foul mouthed dork. If you make stupid, off color jokes in the presence of your friends, keep it up. The last thing a new player wants is to feel like they've joined a church dating pool full of fat guys suddenly tucking in their shirts and minding their manners.
Any future gaming girl worth her salt can handle a few creeps just fine.
I think what most people mean by "don't be a creep" is "be respectful," where "respectful" means generally treating the new gamer (whether male OR female) well and not making jokes that would pointedly make the new person feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. If someone's behavior is entirely off-putting in general, that's NOT okay (someone linked to the geek social fallacies earlier which is a good place to look--some people are of the mistaken idea that geeks are supposed to accept asshats amongst them because otherwise it makes them look snooty). But there is a difference between being downright disrespectful and being friendly and jokey and informal, where sometimes a little off-color humor or gratuitous use of expletives comes into play.
I am otherwise in agreement with you -- it actually DOES bother me when I am in a group of guys who start curbing their language and general jokes around me because "I am a girl." I'm not sure where people get the idea that women don't swear or tell off-color jokes. Usually these same guys end up looking shocked at me when I inevitably drop the f-bomb (which I do on a fairly frequent basis amongst friends) or make a sexual innuendo or joke (which I also do with fair frequency). That response makes me feel extremely uncomfortable, as does the idea that some would-be friends of mine are uncomfortable essentially being themselves around me, when I know they are holding themselves back just because I have boobies and they don't (ETA: Paizo: your filter for the off color word for breasts that starts with "t" actually ends up making the word look like another, much worse word for another part of the female anatomy). Frankly, the whole situation is b#!$#+*%.
However, again, there's a difference between telling an off-color joke, and telling an off-color joke that very specifically targets one person in the room, designed to get a rise out of that person in a bad way. I nor my friends (even the people I consider my best friends, who certainly don't hold back) do that. There's a difference between informal goofing off and trying to alienate someone. Sometimes people very actively do the latter in the name of "joking around" when really, they're not.
I'm going to go against the grain here.
Don't be a creep? No, do be a creep. If you're a foul mouthed dork, continue being a foul mouthed dork. If you make stupid, off color jokes in the presence of your friends, keep it up. The last thing a new player wants is to feel like they've joined a church dating pool full of fat guys suddenly tucking in their shirts and minding their manners.
Is it ever a good idea to "be a creep"?
A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The question is NOT who has women gamers in their group, the question is:
"If you had a wife or girlfriend who was resistant to playing D&D, what did you do to convince her that this is a cool hobby?"
I'm trying to get my wife into gaming. Her main objections with D&D are:
1) She claims to have no imagination. I call BS!
2) She doesn't know the rules and feels self conscious with everyone at the table.
3) She probably thinks it's a little geeky and just isn't telling me. lol.
My method (which I haven't had the time to try yet) is to do a solo adventure with my wife, using a pregenerated character (of a class she likes, in my case, monk) and one support NPC. Obviously it would have to be really easy and I would do everything in my power to make her the hero and not kick her teeth in (I did that with one girlfriend (the dice just rolled that way) and she never gamed again). I'm only asking her to play this one game, and if she still doesn't like playing, I won't bug her again. Hopefully she has a good experience and wants to try another solo adventure or even a game with the guys, but I don't want to pressure her. She was resistant to Magic: The Gathering and she likes that now, so there is hope.
Two times I was the only guy in an otherwise all girl group. No idea why, it just happened.
And most time we have about 1/3 women.
Two times I was the only guy in an otherwise all girl group. No idea why, it just happened.
And most time we have about 1/3 women.
I've been at more than a few tables where the women outnumber the guys, it seems that once ONE woman joins a gaming group, others are more likely to join. They kind of flock together, lol. :)
The challenge is getting the first woman into the group, especially if that woman is your significant other.
I was pretty luck. When I met my wife, we were both chat mods for an online community and both gamers already ;) I would almost say it was RPGs that brought us together ;)Same here! RPG's were the biggest thing we had in common, and what initiated our conversations in the first place. I'm soooo happy I married a gamer. I really don't think a non-gamer would tolerate me for very long...
I've been there as well, Jandrem. Not an easy life ... be happy that you married a gamer ;) I count my blessings that I found one finally ;)
In all my years GMing (something like seventeen years), there has always been at least one female player in our groups; the last two campaigns I ran included two women and two men, a 50/50 split. Since it's always been that way for me, it's never struck me as particularly remarkable, as far as gender is concerned.
On the other hand, in just about every (D&D-style) game where I was playing a PC, it was all guys. This hasn't been very often, as I've rarely NOT been GM/Storyteller/Whatever . . . I guess the groups I've GMed have just been female-friendly, for whatever reasons.
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First and foremost see if she even wants to play and enjoys it. Don't let your hobby become a burden on her and don't let her lack of interest in your hobby become a reason not to enjoy it yourself. I am all for couples spending quality time together but it doesn't have to be in every aspect of your life.
If she is interested in the game, I'd say just let her keep playing and learn the rules. Games are much more fun when you know what is going on. I'd take the advice from above and run some one on one adventures so she could get more comfortable with them. You might also think about picking a class with less "options", cleric is fairly involved. Or maybe in the one on one adventures focus on one aspect of the game at a time, instead of just dropping it all in her lap from the get go. What I mean is do a non-combat, role playing heavy adventure where she could get more comfortable with that aspect of it. Then a skill-use heavy one, then combat, etc. You might also create a few characters together and have duels. Her playing one character and you the other. This is an easy way to learn about the different classes and combat.
The last thing I have to say is keep bringing Oreos.
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I'm going to go against the grain here.
Don't be a creep? No, do be a creep. If you're a foul mouthed dork, continue being a foul mouthed dork. If you make stupid, off color jokes in the presence of your friends, keep it up. The last thing a new player wants is to feel like they've joined a church dating pool full of fat guys suddenly tucking in their shirts and minding their manners.
Any future gaming girl worth her salt can handle a few creeps just fine.
I've got to disagree with you. Foul mothed dork and creep are not the same thing. I can handle the first, but the second I don't want to be around at all. I can handle an off color joke once in awhile, but the type of person who is CONSTANTLY making my gender an issue at the table is someone I don't want to play with, and I'll just leave and not come back.
I don't want to feel like people can't be themselves around me, but if the "self" this person wants to be is an outright misogynist, then I don't want to be around that person.
My 2 cp.
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Yeah I think when some of us say creep we mean it one way and some are taking it another. To me creep is sorta similar to the stalker vibe. A few examples that bug me.
A guy that waits till i sit down and always tries to sit next to me.
A guy next to me always leaning close to help me pick up the right dice when it is my turn.
A guy that always ask what my character looks like, dresses like, (sure at times that makes sense, but not all the time)
A guy that flirts with my "character" constantly and or makes sexual advancements. (I have actually had a guy in game buy my character a sex toy IC as a gift and they was not dating, they barely knew each other IC yet.)
A guy that compliments me constantly OOC, on my looks and or says you would look good dressed like her. (insert any random fantasy art)
When i say creep I mean the above. I don't mean the rude guy that tells off color jokes and is a @ss.
Of course this thread is getting a bit off topic, not that I mind the direction it is going in. It is just not the intent I don't think of the OP. :)
A guy that waits till i sit down and always tries to sit next to me.
A guy next to me always leaning close to help me pick up the right dice when it is my turn.
A guy that always ask what my character looks like, dresses like, (sure at times that makes sense, but not all the time)
A guy that flirts with my "character" constantly and or makes sexual advancements. (I have actually had a guy in game buy my character a sex toy IC as a gift and they was not dating, they barely knew each other IC yet.)
A guy that compliments me constantly OOC, on my looks and or says you would look good dressed like her. (insert any random fantasy art)
You're right, that is creepy. /Shudders
Have you had that happen to you?
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A guy that waits till i sit down and always tries to sit next to me.
A guy next to me always leaning close to help me pick up the right dice when it is my turn.
A guy that always ask what my character looks like, dresses like, (sure at times that makes sense, but not all the time)
A guy that flirts with my "character" constantly and or makes sexual advancements. (I have actually had a guy in game buy my character a sex toy IC as a gift and they was not dating, they barely knew each other IC yet.)
A guy that compliments me constantly OOC, on my looks and or says you would look good dressed like her. (insert any random fantasy art)You're right, that is creepy. /Shudders
Have you had that happen to you?
Everything I listed are the things I have experienced many times over the years of gaming. Well all but the IC sex toy. That only happened once.
A guy that waits till i sit down and always tries to sit next to me.
The freak. I hope you punched him.
Everything I listed are the things I have experienced many times over the years of gaming. Well all but the IC sex toy. That only happened once.A guy that waits till i sit down and always tries to sit next to me.
A guy next to me always leaning close to help me pick up the right dice when it is my turn.
A guy that always ask what my character looks like, dresses like, (sure at times that makes sense, but not all the time)
A guy that flirts with my "character" constantly and or makes sexual advancements. (I have actually had a guy in game buy my character a sex toy IC as a gift and they was not dating, they barely knew each other IC yet.)
A guy that compliments me constantly OOC, on my looks and or says you would look good dressed like her. (insert any random fantasy art)You're right, that is creepy. /Shudders
Have you had that happen to you?
And now, perhaps, people understand why I was confrontational in my prose styles about advice to guys?
I've seen this happen. I've also seen a guy in his 50s who was feebly using the shared D&D game as a pretext to 'in character' hit on a girl still wearing a high school varsity jacket.
Including offering to 'help her with her character' out of session.
He was completely oblivious to the body language cues she was giving off. None of the other players at the table were saying anything. The girl was trying Not To Make A Scene.
Here's a hint: If she's constantly sitting in such a way that her arms are crossed over her chest, her shoulders hunched in, and trying very carefully to lean away from you? You're making her uncomfortable with your presence.
A bunch of us were playing another game in the same room and watching this. And trying to find a way to intervene. I eventually waited until OlderCreepyGuy left to buy some soda, asked the girl in question if she was having fun, and said that if she wanted to, she could come over and blow up some giant stompy robots for a bit while the GM and the other people at the table had a talk with OlderCreepyGuy in another room...but that what we were seeing from across the room was making US uncomfortable, and that we all know that the way you STOP this is to confront it.
She came and piloted a couple of 'Mechs for a few turns, they had a chat with OlderCreepyGuy, and resumed their game. Including changing the seating arrangement to put two people in between OlderCreepyGuy and her, and resumed play.
After two more sessions, they disinvited OlderCreepyGuy.
One of the ways that I have gotten people, mostly women, to game is to find out their interest outside of the game. What types of books do they read? Movies and TV shows watched? Then try to do something that is based off of that media. A lot of people find it hard to game in a world where their character knows lots of things and they (the player) know very little about the place. One of the reasons that many people like White Wolf is because they know the modern world just like their character does. Sure it is different but their character is also finding that out.
Are any of her friends into fantasy or sci-fi?
I ask about her friends because if you could start a new game with her and another friend, only, then she wouldn’t feel so much in the fishbowl.
If she likes to watch Buffy then buy the rulebook and run Buffy. In fact this will help because then you can say that you are learning the rules with her. If she likes the Warehouse 13 series then have her and a friend roll up either fighters or rogues, from Pathfinder. Then run a game based around Warehouse 13. She likes Law and Order then they roll up fighters or rogues and follow the clues. In love with the Harry Potter stuff then they play first level mages starting with no spells in a modern magic school. If her favorite book is the Nanny Diaries then she is a nanny fighting the big-bad parent for a child's sanity. Anything can be a RPG you just need to think about it.
The point is to play to the person’s interests. Once they are comfortable playing then move them into a more traditional game. This will also let you find out what her favorite parts of gaming are.
Oh and I am both a woman and a DM.
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Best advice I can russle up comes from an old .38 Special song:
"You see it all around you
Good lovin' gone bad
And usually it's too late when you, realize what you had
And my mind goes back to a girl I left some years ago,
Who told me,
Just Hold On Loosely, but don't let go
If you cling to tightly,
you're gonna lose control
Your baby needs someone to believe in
And a whole lot of space to breathe in"
Trying to add someone (of either gender) who isn't really interested in gaming to the game group can kill a campaign. I've experienced a number of instances where a spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend has been introduced as a player simply because they felt that was the only way they could spend time with their loved one. It was always a disaster.
One of my cardinal rules now is "gamers only."
If your loved one really is less interested in gaming than just spending time with you prioritize your life, spend time with them, and keep them the hell away from the rest of your group on game night.
I wouldn't start by adding them to a campaign, but rather, a one shot if in a group setting.
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Trying to add someone (of either gender) who isn't really interested in gaming to the game group can kill a campaign. I've experienced a number of instances where a spouse or boyfriend/girlfriend has been introduced as a player simply because they felt that was the only way they could spend time with their loved one. It was always a disaster.
This. Talk to her, and find out if she actually has an interest in the game.