I want to take the Two Weapon fighting feat and Weapon Finesse; using an Elven Curved Blade in one hand, and a light weapon in the other. Is it possible? If so, what would be the penalties and would I be able to take advantage of Weapon Finesse as well?
I'm playing a Rogue/Assassin with a Dex of 20 and a Strength of 16...
Thanks!
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I want to take the Two Weapon fighting feat and Weapon Finesse; using an Elven Curved Blade in one hand, and a light weapon in the other. Is it possible? If so, what would be the penalties and would I be able to take advantage of Weapon Finesse as well?
I'm playing a Rogue/Assassin with a Dex of 20 and a Strength of 16...
Thanks!
Normally you cannot use a twohanded weapon in 1 hand. Its not a matter of penalty, you just cant do it.
Now if you are allowing 3.5 material, the feat monkey grip i think out of complete warrior would allow you to do this with a -2 penalty to all your attacks (which would be in addition to the -2 from two weapon fighting)
Agreed, by core, you can't do it.
Agreed, by core, you can't do it.
Well, a Medium character could use a Small elven curve blade as a one-handed weapon. He'd suffer a -2 attack penalty for using what is essentially a slightly better rapier.
Although there is precedence based on the crossbows, stating that you can fire it one-handed with a -2 (light x-bow) or -4 (heavy x-bow) penalty. As a DM, I would allow the use of a 2-handed weapon in 1-hand, but with a (-4?) penalty. But as far as core goes, it is not covered.
I want to take the Two Weapon fighting feat and Weapon Finesse; using an Elven Curved Blade in one hand, and a light weapon in the other. Is it possible? If so, what would be the penalties and would I be able to take advantage of Weapon Finesse as well?
I'm playing a Rogue/Assassin with a Dex of 20 and a Strength of 16...
Thanks!
The only way by RAW to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand is using a smaller weapon. For example, a Medium-sized creature should use a Small Elven Curved Blade (base damage 1d8, crit 18-20 x2), albeit with an additional -2 to hit due to 'Inappropriately Sized Weapon' (page 144). The weapon itself would be considered One-handed, and so your character would have a -4 to hit on his primary hand and a -2 on his off-hand (since he wants to use a Light weapon on his off-hand).
Other than that, 3.5 had the (in)famous Monkey Grip feat and the Powerful Build racial feature (which were mutually exclusive, according to the Official 3.5 FAQ - which is, a creature with the Powerful Build could not benefit from the Feat, since it was a 'watered down' version of their racial ability), but those abilities only allowed for wielding weapons of greater size without changing the effort (basically, as a Medium creature you could wield a Two-handed Large weapon but only with two hands, or you could wield a Large One-handed weapon with one hand without being forced to wield with both hands); but they still couldn't allow to wield a 'regular-size' weapon with a lowered effort (no Two-handed Medium weapons with one hand). Now, if your GM still allows such Feat/ racial feature AND allows for a slight home-brewed modification (in the Neverwinter Nights 2 videogame, which was 3.5 based, you COULD wield a Greatsword one-handed with such feat), you can wield your Elven Curved Blade One-handed...
Since the Elven Curve Blade is finesseable, no matter how many hands you must use to wield it, it would benefit indeed from your Weapon Finesse feat.
However, for a Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue/Assassin I would suggest either to wield a pair of Kukri (low base damage but high critical potential, 1d4 18-20 x2), or, if you have access to the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, a couple of Sawtooth Sabres (exotic weapons - basically, improved Short Swords with a base damage of 1d8 slashing, finesseable as well being Light weapons).
if you have access to the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, a couple of Sawtooth Sabres (exotic weapons - basically, improved Short Swords with a base damage of 1d8 slashing, finesseable as well being Light weapons).
I'm diggin this...!
Theoretically, you could use it as an improvised weapon at -4 to hit, but you'd lose the damage code and special abilities of the weapon by doing so.
You could consider the bastard sword, with Exotic Weapon Proficiency you can use a bastard sword or a katana (almost the same as an elven curve blade) in one hand. Perhaps, given the nature of the curve blade (very like these two weapons), an extra feat should allow it's use one-handed?
No. Exotic Weapon Proficiency allows it for two specific weapons that are designed to be able to be wielded in either one or two hands. Elven Curve Blades are not designed to be able to be wielded in either one or two hands; they're designed to be wielded in two hands only.
It was a suggestion for a houserule, is all. I know it's not official, I'm just throwing up ideas.
No. Exotic Weapon Proficiency allows it for two specific weapons that are designed to be able to be wielded in either one or two hands. Elven Curve Blades are not designed to be able to be wielded in either one or two hands; they're designed to be wielded in two hands only.
I'm assuming you mean designed mechanically, because if you're talking about any real world use of melee weapons you'd often switch between one and two hands at a time.
This rule is silly, it makes no sense. I'm all for the rules being an abstract rather then a literal interpretation of reality, but I won't ever tell my players they can't do something this mundane.
I'm assuming you mean designed mechanically, because if you're talking about any real world use of melee weapons you'd often switch between one and two hands at a time.
I'm referring to both, actually. Elven Curve Blades are designed within the game system to be Exotic Weapons by virtue of their two handed finesse extended crit status; bastard swords are designed within the game system to be Exotic Weapons by virtue of their high damage for a one-handed weapon.
What you're referring to in the real world case is using one handed weapons with two hands, which is already covered by the rules, not using two-handed weapons in one hand. No one used claymores, halberds, or pikes one handed.
I'm assuming you mean designed mechanically, because if you're talking about any real world use of melee weapons you'd often switch between one and two hands at a time.I'm referring to both, actually. Elven Curve Blades are designed within the game system to be Exotic Weapons by virtue of their two handed finesse extended crit status; bastard swords are designed within the game system to be Exotic Weapons by virtue of their high damage for a one-handed weapon.
What you're referring to in the real world case is using one handed weapons with two hands, which is already covered by the rules, not using two-handed weapons in one hand. No one used claymores, halberds, or pikes one handed.
IRL a claymore is considered a hand-and-a-half sword. Most fighting styles that I'm aware of (including the Zweihander) utilized single-hand grip during combat... not as a primary grip, but it happens. Of course if we were looking at combat in terms of reality, unarmed striks, pommeling, and gripping up.
if you have access to the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, a couple of Sawtooth Sabres (exotic weapons - basically, improved Short Swords with a base damage of 1d8 slashing, finesseable as well being Light weapons).I'm diggin this...!
Sawtooth Sabres are also in the Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide... a free download. As well as the more recent Adventure's Armory companion book.
This is one of the wierder rules hypothesis threads I've seen.
WHY IS IT that a Greatsword does more damage than a Longsword wielded in 2 hands?
WHY IS IT that a Longword does more damage wielded in 2 hands than when wielded in 1 hand?
Oh, yeah...
IRL a claymore is considered a hand-and-a-half sword. Most fighting styles that I'm aware of (including the Zweihander) utilized single-hand grip during combat... not as a primary grip, but it happens. Of course if we were looking at combat in terms of reality, unarmed striks, pommeling, and gripping up.For rule purposes the bastard sword is always a one-handed weapon. Like all one-handed weapons it can be wielded in two hands. It doesn't magically get 5 extra hit points or anyother benefit of being a two-handed weapon because you don't have exotic weapon profeciency.
I didn't say it did?
The rules are in no way indicative of the actual use of the weapons was what I was getting at... but I still don't think it's silly to allow a player (albeit with a hefty penalty...I'd think a -6 or -8 to hit) to wield a two handed weapon in one hand.
For rule purposes the bastard sword is always a one-handed weapon.I'd argue the opposite.
The "default" is that it is wielded two-handed, and a special feat is required to wield it one-handed. One-handed is thus the exception, not the rule.
R.
I'd agree - after all, anyone with martial proficiency can use them two-handed, it takes special training to use them one-handed.
I'd agree - after all, anyone with martial proficiency can use them two-handed, it takes special training to use them one-handed.For rule purposes the bastard sword is always a one-handed weapon.I'd argue the opposite.
The "default" is that it is wielded two-handed, and a special feat is required to wield it one-handed. One-handed is thus the exception, not the rule.
R.
Sorry to disagree, but no. The Bastard Sword is listed as an Exotic One-Handed Weapon (see on page 143, or on the PRD). The fact that it CAN be wielded also as a Two-Handed Martial Weapon is a special quality of the weapon itself. Same for the Dwarven Waraxe.
Basically, they are exotic weapon because they are a superior version of the 'base weapon' on which they are based (Longsword and Battleaxe), with a higher damage die. However, even without specific proficiency, they can still be used somehow (albeit not optimally) by martial users - which have an higher degree of competence with weapons in general.
Now, the fact that they CAN be used two-handed even with the Exotic Weapon Prof. Feat (and so, benefit from higher Strength bonus and Power Attack ratio) is simply a feature of ALL One-handed weapons (which can be wielded two-handed, too).
your argument is flawed, one could just as easily say that the basatard sword and dwarven war axe are cut down versions of the great sword and great axe wich completely turns your argument around.
wc
edited for neatness
I could agree with you if not for the fact that Table 6-4 on page 143-144 specifically lists both Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe as One-handed Exotic Weapons (along with the Whip), not Two-handed Exotic Weapons.
The rest of my post is simply my personal reading of the fact that such weapons SEEM TO BE upgraded versions (1d10 vs 1d8) of similar Martial One-handed weapons, I have to admit.
Since, however, they are (by RAW) One-handed Weapons themselves, I believe that my reading could be not very far from the truth.
your argument is flawed, one could just as easily say that the basatard sword and dwarven war axe are cut down versions of the great sword and great axe wich completely turns your argument around.
wc
edited for neatness
I could agree with you if not for the fact that Table 6-4 on page 143-144 specifically lists both Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe as One-handed Exotic Weapons (along with the Whip), not Two-handed Exotic Weapons.
The rest of my post is simply my personal reading of the fact that such weapons SEEM TO BE upgraded versions (1d10 vs 1d8) of similar Martial One-handed weapons, I have to admit. Since, however, they are (by RAW) One-handed Weapons themselves, I believe that my reading could indeed be not really far from the truth.
Yes, but they are two-handed MARTIAL weapons if you read the text. They are exotic weapons when wielded in one hand, martial ones in two. Their listing as one-handed exotic weapons only shows that with exotic weapon proficiency they are one handed weapons.
Yes, but they are two-handed MARTIAL weapons if you read the text. They are exotic weapons when wielded in one hand, martial ones in two. Their listing as one-handed exotic weapons only shows that with exotic weapon proficiency they are one handed weapons.
The text for both Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe says:
"A character can use a (bastard sword)/(dwarven waraxe) two-handed as a martial weapon."
which is different that saying that those are effectively 'Two-handed Martial weapons'.
Also, they are not listed under Two-handed martial Weapons first and foremost; one could argue 'because it's silly to show the same weapon twice under two different tables', but this only reinforces the idea that they are primarily One-handed Exotic Weapons (they could easily be shown only under Martial Weapons with an entry saying 'such a weapon can be wielded One-handed if taking the Exotic Weapon Prof. Feat', otherwise).
However, I believe that we are going tremendously OT with this...
Hey Ughbash, go quote the description for Elven Curve Blade. Can I get a coffee too?
Since the Elven Curve Blade is finesseable, no matter how many hands you must use to wield it, it would benefit indeed from your Weapon Finesse feat.
I disagree. If a medium creature used a Small Elven Curve Blade so that he could use it one handed then it would not be finessable.
With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls.
You are right on this; so, basically, in order to stay finesseable, the (originally finesseable) weapon must either be of the correct size category, or must become Light (and so, in order to wield an Elven Curve Blade as a light weapon, you have to be TWO size categories bigger).
I stand corrected; in this case, the Rogue/Assassin of the OP would need a Tiny Elven Curve Blade (base damage 1d6) to benefit from his Dex bonus - but would end with a -4 to hit, due to 2 size categories of difference between his weapon and himself. Not really convenient at all - better to stick with two Kukri, in this case...
Hey Ughbash, go quote the description for Elven Curve Blade. Can I get a coffee too?
Curve Blade, Elven: Essentially a longer version of a
scimitar, but with a thinner blade, the elven curve blade is
exceptionally rare. You receive a +2 circumstance bonus to
your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever a foe attempts
to sunder your elven curve blade due to its flexible metal.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your
Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to
attack rolls with an elven curve blade sized for you, even
though it isn’t a light weapon.
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Hi
I think the simplest solution is 5 levels of Synthesist (Summoner Archetype). Then follow up with Ninja.
Go Snake base form, add two sets of arms/hands, incerease dex by two, and add set legs/feet. That's 8 Evolution points.
Your effective physical stats are:
Str 14 Dex 20 Con 14 (Inc 4th lvl stat increase).
You've now got 4 arms/hands to wield two Curved Blades, and look like a Yuan ti.
You also gain +6 Nat Armour, Darkvision, Evasion, Climb speed. Bite & Tail Slap attacks. Plus Ninja abilities.
Cha is the Spell casting stat, as well as stat for Ki Pool for the Ninja.
Curved blades are bit wierd, since they qualify for both Wpn Finesse & Pwr attack. (At same time)?
Thanks
Paul H