Before we started our first campaign, i spent a lot of time testing the various ability score creation methods, rolled countless character tests including mixing up dice types used, and a whole bunch of other stuff. This is because i found:
6x 3d6 produced some almost unusable characters and some chars that were great. I thought it might make some players just inferior to others.
6x top 3 of 4 d6 made it almost impossible for someone to get a 4 - 7 in anything but a dump stat
Assigning Dice to stats pre roll sometimes bombed if you want to play a certain class, which is something i wanted all my players to do
point buying - removed randomness and excitement of rolling.
I tried things like allowing some point swapping, you say Str->Wis after you set your stats, then u sacrifice 1d3 str for 1 wis, rinse and repeat. Wasn't too fond of it. Also tried using 3d4 + 1d6 which also eliminated low rolls. After rolling dice for about 3 hours i came up with a system that i actually liked.
Players roll 6x 3d6.
Once during their rolling they can chose to do one of the following
a) Invert all the dice (1->6,2->5,3->4,4->3,5->2,6->1)
b) Change one dice to a 6 if no die is a 5 or a 6
The decision has to be made before the next roll.
If all 6 rolls happen w/o using a or b, they get +3 split across a minimum of 2 stats, and can not bring a stat above 18.
I found this lead to most players have at least 1 16-18 and at least 1 5-7, which i find helps to roll play.
Just wondering if anyone else has any homebrew roll systems they like
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Our standard has pretty much been 4d6 reroll 1's and take highest 3 dice assign as wanted. I like the point buy system but have never played a game with a point buy system. As a gm i have alot of players that if your not around when they roll their dice they always have amazing numbers so i sometimes let them have their super stats and give them the set stats of 18,17,16,15,14,13. Now i have never played 3.5 or Pathfiner(I just recently found the joy that is pathfinder). Ive always been a 1st/2nd edition guy or Palladium Books.
For years, I invented all kinds of rolling methods for my players to try and give them just the right kind of point spread. Not too low, not too high, fairly close to each other so that no one felt like they had a lousy character because everyone else has a bunch of 18s.
I've completely abandoned it, though. I'm a point-buy guy, through and through. It's completely fair. No one unbalances the game with three 18s. No one whines because their highest score is a 13.
I'm with kelso. Did a hundred different rolling methods, including optional rerolls, multiple sets, the works... and finally decided the best way to keep things where I wanted was to just go with the point buy.
As me and my players are powergamers, I roll with 25 points. Characters are tough, but hardly invincible.
Back in the day, I ran a couple of fun low-magic campaigns using d10+8, an idea ripped from the Conan RPG. Everyone was good at everything, which compensated a bit for the terrible equipment :D
I'm with kelso. Did a hundred different rolling methods, including optional rerolls, multiple sets, the works... and finally decided the best way to keep things where I wanted was to just go with the point buy.
As me and my players are powergamers, I roll with 25 points. Characters are tough, but hardly invincible.
Back in the day, I ran a couple of fun low-magic campaigns using d10+8, an idea ripped from the Conan RPG. Everyone was good at everything, which compensated a bit for the terrible equipment :D
what exactly is a 'low-magic' campaign, i've seen that a few times now.
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what exactly is a 'low-magic' campaign, i've seen that a few times now.I'm with kelso. Did a hundred different rolling methods, including optional rerolls, multiple sets, the works... and finally decided the best way to keep things where I wanted was to just go with the point buy.
As me and my players are powergamers, I roll with 25 points. Characters are tough, but hardly invincible.
Back in the day, I ran a couple of fun low-magic campaigns using d10+8, an idea ripped from the Conan RPG. Everyone was good at everything, which compensated a bit for the terrible equipment :D
Usually it refers to a setting where magic items are very rare and people have to reley on skill and talent rather than pure raw magic, its call Low Fantasy alot and its a setting type im very much in favor of. If you know anything of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay that is a low fantasy setting where you can play a character for years without ever seeing a magic item. Magic items are like artifacts and are the things of legend.
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Low-Magic: A game where PCs don't take casting classes, and where magic items are rare and hard to come by.
As for your original question.
I usually make a spread that looks like this:
18, 17, 15, 13, 11, 10 for High Power games
or
17, 15, 13, 11, 10, 9 for medium power games.
Low power game would probably be
8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15.
Players put the stats in any order they like, then throw on racial bonuses penalties. Since everyone has the same spread, nobody complains about being gimped compared to other players. (The reason I use more Odd than Even numbers is that way at lvl 4 if someone isn't completely satisfied with one stat they can increase its bonus easily).
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For years, I invented all kinds of rolling methods for my players to try and give them just the right kind of point spread. Not too low, not too high, fairly close to each other so that no one felt like they had a lousy character because everyone else has a bunch of 18s.
I've completely abandoned it, though. I'm a point-buy guy, through and through. It's completely fair. No one unbalances the game with three 18s. No one whines because their highest score is a 13.
agreed 100%
Dice rolling can be fun and thrilling I suppose, unless your highest roll is a 10! Inevitably in most of our games we would roll, check the results and announce that guy died, making a new character! About twenty rolls later everyone has at least four 18s and the lowest stat in the party is a 16... yeah okay...
once played a game ages ago, I was a fighter and I rolled my strength, something like 14ish... ugg that sucked... the stupid mage rolled 18 (00)! That is one reason I dislike rolling stats now.
For years, I invented all kinds of rolling methods for my players to try and give them just the right kind of point spread. Not too low, not too high, fairly close to each other so that no one felt like they had a lousy character because everyone else has a bunch of 18s.
I've completely abandoned it, though. I'm a point-buy guy, through and through. It's completely fair. No one unbalances the game with three 18s. No one whines because their highest score is a 13.
agreed 100%
Dice rolling can be fun and thrilling I suppose, unless your highest roll is a 10! Inevitably in most of our games we would roll, check the results and announce that guy died, making a new character! About twenty rolls later everyone has at least four 18s and the lowest stat in the party is a 16... yeah okay...
once played a game ages ago, I was a fighter and I rolled my strength, something like 14ish... ugg that sucked... the stupid mage rolled 18 (00)! That is one reason I dislike rolling stats now.
Add my voice to the point buy crowd -- I suppose that's partly because I started gaming with games like Champions and WEG's Star Wars (D6 version), which were points buy or stat-balanced games. In fact, they also biased me against level-based advancement, as well, but that's another thread.
Unfortunately, my best friend and long-time GM/DM is a hard core die roll kind of guy. *shrug* I'd rather play his way than not play.
32 point buy -- enought to allow for very good MAD characters.
This makes the players really exceptional; there are only probably a dozen humanoids in the world with stats as good as theirs.
It's a reasonably low-level setting (among the civilized races you don't get anyone above about level 12), but not a low-magic setting.
I've given up on rolling, and gone to a point buy system.
For years, I invented all kinds of rolling methods for my players to try and give them just the right kind of point spread. Not too low, not too high, fairly close to each other so that no one felt like they had a lousy character because everyone else has a bunch of 18s.
I've completely abandoned it, though. I'm a point-buy guy, through and through. It's completely fair. No one unbalances the game with three 18s. No one whines because their highest score is a 13.
+1. Also, as a GM, you don't feel any guilt about picking on someone for taking a low score in something, since they did it themselves (rather than being forced to eat it from a bad dice roll)
I'm not totally sold on point buy but it's what we used for the current game I'm running. (We used the Epic level.)
My usual default is 5d6 keep the best 3. Makes for fun characters with stats players generally like.
Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."
I used the dice pool system the last time I started a campaign, using 24d6. It was interesting, to be sure, with the results that were achieved. I might eventually like to try some kind of point-buy system for the evenness of it, but even then, I'd like -some- degree of randomness built into it. The BAR system mentioned by Freesword attracts my attention a lot.
I'm old fashioned and mean. We roll for stats at my table. Point buy is for organized events and to silence [censored].
I do 4d6 seven times, dropping the lowest die each time and the lowest roll overall, place scores to taste. If the dice have been truly cruel to the majority of the group, I have everyone roll 1d3+1 afterwards to create a pool of "bonus" points that must be shared between two or more scores.
We roll for stats at my table too. I have the players roll 4d6, drop lowest, for two sets of 6 stats. I then have them choose the set they want to play.
I find that dice rolling is the best way to balance the game between optimizers and non-optimizers and between SAD classes and MAD classes.
We have done quite a few differnt ones
Im not a big Point buy guy I like the randomness things (kinda)
3d6 pick 2 plus 6 this is the new one we have been trying
get a 10 and 18 and 4 d6 reroll 1s
We did a dice pool with 24 D6 that was fun
Both my groups have thought the same if you dont have quality stats why the hell did you become and an adventurer instead of a farmer
I'm a risk-averse kind of guy, so I like point buy.
SAD = Single ability dependent?
MAD = Multiple Ability dependent?
SAD = Single ability dependent?
MAD = Multiple Ability dependent?
Yes
My group used to do the 4d6 pick top 3 method, but after a few campaigns where 1 person had rediculous stats and one had crap stats, we switched to point buy. We do either 20 or 25 point buy depending on the dm.
Our standard has pretty much been 4d6 reroll 1's and take highest 3 dice assign as wanted.
This is what I do when I have characters roll but they also can't have anything below a 10 without modifiers (I hate having negative modifiers when I'm a player so I'm nice about it when I DM). I did once have everybody roll 5d4, only 1 person rolled five 4's (giving them a 20 in something) but I think he also got a really low stat (probably 6 or 7) other than that everyone had pretty decent stats. Since Pathfinder has come out we've been using 20-25 point buys though because like Kolokotroni said some people would end up with really good stats and others with crap stats.
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I'm about to start running Kingmaker with 6 people and I decided to go with 15 point buy. This allows a character to have a 16, a 14 and 3x10s (ie.-no penalties) before racial adjustments. This is a very good setup IMO and creates adventurer-level characters without allowing everybody to be great at everything.
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I've done 3.5 42-point buy for my latest campaign, but before that was best 3 of 5d6 6 times. Next campaign I start, provided all the players can be there for chargen will be 4d6 drop 1 6 times, and the players can pick another players set if they like it better than their own. Thus, everyone can pick the best set and arrange as needed, so they are all equal, but if a different set works better for their character, they can go with that. I'll probably roll a set myself if need be.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It's good to know why you're coming up with crazy rules before implementing them. In my case, I wanted (my very experienced) players to have some say-so about their characters' statistics, but not entire control.
When I began my current campaign, I used a dice-pool variant of the "Three Dragon Ante" character design method Craig Shackelton had developed for a Dragon article. But after too many character with unplayable stats, we set that aside.
I now offer my players a choice between a 28d6 dice pool (with some odd seasonings*) or a three-by-three grid of 4d6, choose 3.
* Two notable rules:
- before assigning dice to attributes, players can elect to trade dice for traits (at a cost of 1, then 2, then 3, and finally 4 dice from the dice pool for extra traits)
- rolling more than three '6's for an attribute increases the total above 18, +1 for each additional '6'.)
We have done both point buy and rolling of stats. I prefer rolling myself. The randomness is fun, and having the rest of the group watch you roll up a new character avoids the blatant cheating that rolling can bring, and can be an enjoyable experience in itself. I have players roll 4d6 keeping the best three rolls, a total of 7 times. They then drop the lowest set. I have them do this twice to make two complete ability sets to choose from. Makes for higher scores, but I am okay with that, and our group has said that they prefer this to point buy. (The lure of two 17s or better is just too powerful to resist!)
Found everyone's stats from my roll style above:
For the Record, stats after racial modifiers
Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
Rogue: 12 20 12 7 5 11
Sorc: 12 11 11 10 9 18
Fighter: 19 13 16 11 8 9
Barb: 20 14 18 9 12 5
Monk: 16 14 12 9 15 7
So yea, the rog, sorc, barb were able to do the first 1/2 of everflame with only a few more pots and a bit of extra gold. Their dps + smart play got them through.
We have done both point buy and rolling of stats. I prefer rolling myself. The randomness is fun
THIS is why there will always be games that do both. Neither method is inherently superior, both have their merits, and ultimately it'ds a matter of personal preference.
First you roll 4d6 drop lowest six times. Then I will roll another set using 7d6 drop lowest four, reroll 1's and 2's. If the set you've rolled does not contain at least two 18s, a 17 and a 15, we swap stat blocks and I roll the special percentile dice that changes things thusly:
1-23 - A Cartesian daemon is in play. On this result I roll a d8, the result which determines how many extra sets of stats I will roll. Every 2d6 of in game hours, I roll randomly roll to determine which of the 1+1d8 set of stats I have are in play for that character. The player never gets to see the extra sets of stats or know which one is in play or when they change.
24-26 - Instead of the stat block I rolled, a new statblock will be determined by the following ethical dilemma. There are two train tracks, one of them has thirteen kittens on it, and the other has 23 kittens on it. The train has no brakes and you must choose one of these tracks to direct the train to. This dilemma will be repeated five more times, once for each stat. Each stat will be determined by how many kittens the train runs over before the friction from the bodies stops the train, with the caveat that if the train runs over more than 18 kittens on the second track your stat will instead be set to a nine.
27-49 - Like previous but with babies instead.
50-63 - You keep the 7d6 blah blah stat block but must use Thac0 and demihuman level limits.
64-84 - You keep the 7d6 stat block and your character is struck by a rare incurable disease that makes it so that you can only regain hitpoints by feeding on magic items.
85-94 - You keep the 7d6 stat block and gain a kender buddy who will follow you throughout your career
95-100 - You keep the 7d6 stat block but you can only play a bard/oracle mystic theurge.
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Or you could take the point buy option.
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I personally prefer point-buy as a player because I'm a huge number-cruncher, and I hate the randomness of rolling for stats because it means I can be completely inferior to every other person in the group (and it really doesn't feel good when another person basically rolled a god given flesh and you rolled a commoner, at least not to me).
As a DM, I like giving my players the point-buy because they can always make the character that they want as it fits their mental-image, and it makes all players on equal footing with each other. That, and they can create their characters without my watchful eye. This way, in the days/weeks/months before we actually play, they can test out as many concepts they want without relying on one set selection of stats, or the complete ambiguity of "well, if I get at least one 18 and a 16 I can play X...".
Our group always tends to play high stats, but low and relatively rare magic items. Because of this, we switched to a stat rolling system of 8+1d10, arrange to taste. You may move up to 2 points, and after this move if the total modifier isn't at least a +8 you reroll.
It's been working so far. My character has the worst stats on the table, but it works out well because I'm the only optimizer. For a bard, no less.
4d6 drop 1 and reroll the whole set of 6 if you did not like it. Relies on group cohesion and maturity.
I've been providing arrays of ability scores for the players to arrange any way they wish. This is satisfactory to me and I think my group has adjusted to it nicely, coming up with some very clever builds.
I used the Pathfinder system for assigning multiple dice to more important ability scores, rerolling ones. I usually disapprove stats on a personal basis, such as when a player rolling a fighter put 6 dice into his strength and got an 11, then rolled for INT and got a 17.
I also allowed players to switch any two scores with one another. I've had multiple rolling methods and I like that one a bit.
Point buy or standard array only.
I firmly believe that character generation is far too important a part of the game to trust to chance. Especially in a long-running campaign, being hampered or irritated by a single bad die roll for years of gaming isn't a good trade-off for the possibility of the excitement of rolling a high stat.
I use the combination point-buy/random method using Three Dragon Ante cards described in Dragon #348. I use the high-powered campaign (32 points in D&D 3.5) and let players move three stones from one ability card to another before spending the points.
It also gives so good ideas on your character's likely alignment (i.e. if you have a lot of good dragon cards, your character is more likely good).
Challenge Rating was evidently balanced against the following stats for each class (assigned, not in order): 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.
When I start a campaign, I explain to my players that using higher stats but these will not make their characters better. Rather it will require more paperwork of the GM to keep things challenging.
If the players want to game as much as possible, they should use the default array or something like it, to ensure the GM can improvise monsters from the book instead of having to re-write every statblock. We're pretty happy with the standard point-buy in this regard.
My players insisted on using rolling (I prefer point buy myself and still give it as an option).
So I offered the option of everyone rolling a set of stats, and then everyone can choose any set of stats rolled for their character.
So far it's given a nice set of stats in the normal range, a good one for MAD and for SAD, and no one feels cheated.
I've generally disliked point buy systems. For the most part, it just gives you homogenized characters. Yes, they're different classes (obviously) and they can be SAD or MAD but you still tend to get players using the same 6 stats arranged for their particular class.
In my mind the 1st consideration is always the mix of players you have. Anywhere from Power Gamers to Role Players (which are not necessarily mutually exclusive). As a DM, you want to meet players expectations while allowing for some surprises.
That being said, 4d6 discard the lowest gives a higher than average group of stats and only an outside chance at a really 'low' stat. In my mind, Adventurers ARE Adventurers because they're a couple cuts about the average commoner but not perfect in every way. For the DM, it can mean more work tweaking encounters but the ultimate goal is for everyone to have fun.
Best of both worlds. Roll the very common 4d6>1 six times and arrange how you like, then do a separate set of stats with epic point buy. Then choose to keep the first set or the second set, up to you.
That way, people who like to feel "lucky" can try for great scores, and they sometimes do better than the point buy. For those who aren't so lucky, they don't get stuck with a crappy set of stats.
Nobody ends up worse than what they can get with point-buy.
And we go epic because I like to play rough (it's a Tarrasque thing, don't you know), and they need all the help they can get.