They did. Nothing in the current rules can bypass the cap.
Didn't remember them adressing it on the thread we discussed before, sorry then, carry on.
It's still terrible ruling if you ask me though. :)
It does make sense at lest. Ya may not like it but at lest ya can get "nothing per epic can go past +10" and it's constant and apply s to everything.. Ya want to talk about bad? the whole twohanded weapon as a bonded item {other then a staff} is not a bonded item if ya let go with one hand to cast.
That's a silly rule
yep, can't bypass the crap rule...i mean cap rule.
It does make sense at lest. Ya may not like it but at lest ya can get "nothing per epic can go past +10" and it's constant and apply s to everything.. Ya want to talk about bad? the whole twohanded weapon as a bonded item {other then a staff} is not a bonded item if ya let go with one hand to cast.
That's a silly rule
That's the silliest of them all. Looks like no wizard is EVER gonna have a Staff bounded, go figure.
But hey, just to reinstate my discontmentment with +10 crap. When epic comes out (or if you use what's already there) then the paladin and the AA again become "OP" acording to some, it just doesn't make much sense to me, that a 20th level Pally with his shiny +10 blade can't use his ability, and suddenly when he gets his +11 it goes to +17! I mean, really!? I hate that, not even gonna coment on AA cause it makes me nauseous.
well when i step back and take a look at the hole picture it seems pretty balanced. if you could take a bow+ammo above +10 that would pretty much make melee weapons obsolete. higher level characters would all be running around with bows and arrows. This would take the game more to wild west style play instead of medieval. why would anyone use a sword when it's so much deadlier to just shoot somebody. Plus archers have another advantage, they can snipe safely from the distance with little risk. I'm a firm believer in RISK vs REWARD. why is it fair for the archer to take his bonus above +10 and not a melee fighter who is holding the front ranks and taking most of the risk? over all it seems balanced when you take into account risk vs reward. and whoever said that AA is basically getting free money as class skills thats actually not a bad thing! i have a spell blade in my kingmaker campaign and he's fine that his main ability can't take a weapon above +10.
this means he doesn't have to PAY to build up on his sword. he can put gold into other magical items like armor,shields,wands,scrolls,wonderous items,clothes,cloaks, mantles, etc. thats a big bonus! In essence he gets his magic items more often and faster than any other character.
AN AA is the same way. just because your a specialized archer doesn't mean you have to dump all your cash into bows and arrows. In essence if you play your cards smart your still going to have a better archer than other classes. don't need to buy magic arrows? you'll be the first one to have a +6 item to dex. already capped dex? time to start building up your str bonus to +6 and get a composite bow. sell your +3 bow to a party member at 75% the price. still not sure what to do with your cash? some manuals that increase stats are always tasty. not to mention because you can apply properties to arrows this allows you to put more cash into your bow, your bow should become say +5 something before a fighter gets his +3 or +4 sword (unless he dumped all his cash into his main weapon too). there's a lot of different ways to work around with this. me, i wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket anyway. there always some points you could use better armor,magic items,or different weapons that AREN'T pearcing. if anything i think this gives AA and paladins MORE versatility...
well when i step back and take a look at the hole picture it seems pretty balanced. if you could take a bow+ammo above +10 that would pretty much make melee weapons obsolete.
Melee weapons are already obsolete. Look up some of the archer fighter builds. Can't do that with melee weapons as easily and consistently with as much versatility as you can with bows, and the build I did didn't even use +10 worth of total bonus (he had a plain +5 bow and +1 <alignment> arrows).
Unless you're GM gives you an infinite amount of gold to spend, the AA ability is still very useful.
Magical weapons, particularly magical ammunition, are pretty much the most expensive things in the game.
Unless your GM gives you LEVEL APPROPRIATE amounts of gold the AA ability is OK. Until higher levels.
Magical ammo is expensive...which is why almost no one buys it except for specialty cases. My objection is that the AA doesn't play well with the mechanics of the rest of the game, and his PRIMARY class feature is obsolete if you have level appropriate funds.
Woo, look at all them worms.....
Carry on.
My objection is that the AA doesn't play well with the mechanics of the rest of the game, and his PRIMARY class feature is obsolete if you have level appropriate funds.
I have to disagree with that. Your guessing every game allows you to buy what ever you want, and even if it does it is not useless as you can buy..guess what stuff other then a +10 magic bow, hell if ya wanted to be all munchy buy a few different +5 magic bows.
Either way the ability is far from obsolete
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The assumption is that in *most* pathfinder games, *most* damage focused characters will work to improve their main weapon. And also that, one way or another, you can use wealth found in the games to assist you in acquiring a better weapon, or improving your own.
Sounds reasonable.
Alternatively, you can use the suggestions for creating a character at higher level, and see what you can pick up with 1/4 of a characters total wealth invested in a single weapon. Pg 200, the moderate approach.
Anyhow, by level, the breakdown of what a character could actually get.
Level......Gold.................Total Bonus using 25% of standard wealth
10.........15500...............+2
11.........20500...............+3
12.........27000...............+3
13.........35000...............+4
14.........46250...............+4
15.........60000...............+5
16.........78750...............+6
17.........102500.............+7
18.........132500.............+8
19.........171250.............+9
20.........220000.............+10
So, using the starting rules, you can see what a player is roughly expected to have per level.
The AA has a minimum entry level of 7.
Total character level.......Effective class weapon bonus
7(aa1).....................1
8.............................1
9.............................2
10...........................2
11...........................3
12...........................3
13...........................4
14...........................4
15...........................6
16...........................6
So at Level 15, 9 of which are arcane archer levels, your wealth bonus plus your class skills exceed the cap of +10.
Everything past character lvl 14 for an arcane archer is waste.
For paladins, their bonuses come at 5, 8, 11,14,17, and 20. They don't taste total waste until level 17.
I will point out that for many such specialized characters, they might invest as much as half of their wealth into their main weapon, causing them to reach the cap sooner.
For campaigns with low magic, these classes may never reach the cap without hitting epic levels.
Popcorn is in the lobby.
*edited cause pazio apparently hates formatting :(
My objection is that the AA doesn't play well with the mechanics of the rest of the game, and his PRIMARY class feature is obsolete if you have level appropriate funds.I have to disagree with that. Your guessing every game allows you to buy what ever you want, and even if it does it is not useless as you can buy..guess what stuff other then a +10 magic bow, hell if ya wanted to be all munchy buy a few different +5 magic bows.
Either way the ability is far from obsolete
Blah blah blah, corner cases! In a game where magic is forbidden, someone playing a wizard will win hooray! In a world where all weapons are made of glass a sunderer is OP. What's your freakin' point? In a stock campaign where your DM isn't a total douchebag AA stops being a worthwhile prestige class now.
The point is more not that you get a free +5 to your weapon, but you get ABILITIES YOU CAN'T CHOOSE FROM. Yeah, the inability to plan ahead and make decisions for your own character is going to hamper him no matter what you think.
If you don't see this, if you don't follow this logic, and you think this ruling is just dandy and doesn't affect the class then you're beyond f$*$ing help.
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If you don't see this, if you don't follow this logic, and you think this ruling is just dandy and doesn't affect the class then you're beyond f%~%ing help.
Wow. You need to calm down.
Wow. You need to calm down.If you don't see this, if you don't follow this logic, and you think this ruling is just dandy and doesn't affect the class then you're beyond f%~%ing help.
Please don't. :) I'm with you there mate!
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Oh, yeah, there is the other side of the stick, as was somewhat gone over in the paladin divine bond thread.
There *is* a benefit to the otherwise extra bonuses these classes get. Instead of spending wealth on improving the weapon, the classes can instead spend the money on buying other supporting gear for their build.
A paladin needs at max a +4 weapon, if he wants to utilize his entire bonus. Same with the arcane archer. So they can spend the extra 190,000 gold that would otherwise have gone to a +10 weapon on manuals, better str or dex bracers, or even on battle fodder mercenaries. That's a huge chunk of change taken all together.
Personally, it makes more sense to me to allow permanent bonuses to go to +10 and temporary bonuses to go to +10, as long as they're not coming from the same source.
But either way you look at it, those abilities are worth some gold :p
I guess the real question comes down to whether or not the stacking would make that class more attractive for players than other classes, and/or outperform other classes noticeably.
I'm a bit biased, since I'll be playing a pally character as my main in a campaign coming up in a few months that I won't be dming *at long last* :p
Blah blah blah, corner cases! In a game where magic is forbidden, someone playing a wizard will win hooray! In a world where all weapons are made of glass a sunderer is OP. What's your freakin' point? In a stock campaign where your DM isn't a total douchebag AA stops being a worthwhile prestige class now.The point is more not that you get a free +5 to your weapon, but you get ABILITIES YOU CAN'T CHOOSE FROM. Yeah, the inability to plan ahead and make decisions for your own character is going to hamper him no matter what you think.
If you don't see this, if you don't follow this logic, and you think this ruling is just dandy and doesn't affect the class then you're beyond f**#ing help.
First off by the core pathfinder rules{ones we are using by the way} You may not buy anything you wish when ever you want it just because you have the cash. Also in a good deal of pathfinder AP's you simply do not have the time or the place to do such.
Allowing such things as buying anything at all just because you have the cash is the corner case not the norm.
Secondly you Chose that class or class ability {paladin} no one forced you to and you have no one to blame but yourself if you don't want what comes with the class. You play an AA you damn well know just what it does {You did read it first right?}
I fear your logic is iffy to start with, not everyone plays in a powergamers wet dream. The rules work fine for the standard game, the standard powerlevel of the game.
If you don't see this well, then it's a good thing you do not make the calls.
First off by the core pathfinder rules{ones we are using by the way} You may not buy anything you wish when ever you want it just because you have the cash. Also in a good deal of pathfinder AP's you simply do not have the time or the place to do such.
Actually, by the core pathfinder rules, there's a 75% chance to find any item within the town's price range "at little effort" and a chance to randomly have any item regardless of price. That's the default Pathfinder rules for buying magic items. So, yes, there actually is a chance to buy stuff from major cities in every AP so far. They specifically design those chances in because the game assumes that you have the chance to buy level-appropriate items.
Please try to not to lie about what the rules say.
See chance is a far cry from 100% I can have it. And tell that to folks playing part 1 of Lof who go 5 levels with no chance to buy or sell anything. Who lied now?
See chance is a far cry from 100% I can have it. And tell that to folks playing part 1 of Lof who go 5 levels with no chance to buy or sell anything. Who lied now?
Characters are not eligible to be Arcane Archers in part 1 of Legacy of Fire, as you have to be level 6 to take the first level of it, so that example is not relevant. Furthermore, the first module specifically gives you a year to go around and do things and specifically points out that there's a major city on the caravan trail to buy stuff at.
The relevance is you can not get what you want just when you want it always by core. Saying the game is built on that is incorrect as you just pointed out. You rarely have 100% chance to get what you want just because ya have the cash.
Meatrace said it was corner cases if you could not and this simply is not the case.
The relevance is you can not get what you want just when you want it always by core. Saying the game is built on that is incorrect as you just pointed out. You rarely have 100% chance to get what you want just because ya have the cash.
Any character can take Master Craftsman and Craft Arms and Armor. You can craft on any day where you have 8 hours of non-resting, non-action time. You can even craft while doing overland movement. If you're playing a campaign where there are simply no major cities ... you can craft your own stuff, and it even costs less.
As much as you deny it, yes, by default, a character is guaranteed to be able to buy any weapons, armor, or wondrous items he wants assuming he has the cash, one way or the other, assuming he puts a little effort into it. This is a core assumption of the rules. Every monster is designed with players with level-appropriate gear in mind. Specifically and explicitly.
No it is not, not by the rules..show me where it is? You showed where it says you have a chance, not a 100% one but a chance. Now show me where it says you can always 100% have what you want? level-appropriate gear does not mean the gear you want, but gear thats well level-appropriate. It is not the same thing.
You may want a +2 flaming longsword but can only find a +3 scimitar . All level appropriate and by the rules, just not what ya wanted.{and as it's more then 16'ooo gp no city will auto have it. Unless ya have someone make your fabled +10 bow you have next to zero chance by raw of buying it really]
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Meh, realistically, the more you go up in levels, the more cities you have access to.
The more cities you have access to, the greater the chance that you'll be able to find item X there.
Once your arcanist can fire off a few teleports, you just bounce between major cities, looking for what you want until you find it, or someone with the skills to make it for you.
Your 75% chance is rolled at each city. After just two or three, your odds are very, very good.
Back in the 2E days we used to play that magic bows gave you bonus to hit and magic arrow applied to damage. I'm not sure if that's what the rules actually were or if that was house rule but it made magic bow and arrows useful. I find no one ever take magic arrow in my game unless they are special quality arrows. So plain +3 arrows are never used but +1 flaming arrows are.
No it is not, not by the rules..show me where it is? You showed where it says you have a chance, not a 100% one but a chance. Now show me where it says you can always 100% have what you want?
Any character can take Master Craftsman and Craft Arms and Armor
No it is not, not by the rules..show me where it is? You showed where it says you have a chance, not a 100% one but a chance. Now show me where it says you can always 100% have what you want?Any character can take Master Craftsman and Craft Arms and Armor
This still does not allow you to buy anything you want when you want it. If you use the feat and the time and 25th level and can make the DC ya can craft your +10 bow.
You have yet to show out of core you can just go buy it. If you have unlimited time and can hit every major city in the world and roll really, really well* then maybe just maybe you will find your weapon. But by core you can not just go find it anytime you want like going to walmart.
*
To get a +10 bow ya need to roll An 11-20 on the item chart, then roll 64-100 and repeat rolls until ya get a total of +10 then ya need to roll for weapon if I recall
This still does not allow you to buy anything you want when you want it. If you use the feat and the time and 25th level and can make the DC ya can craft your +10 bow.You have yet to show out of core you can just go buy it. If you have unlimited time and can hit every major city in the world and roll really, really well* then maybe just maybe you will find your weapon. But by core you can not just go find it anytime you want like going to walmart.
*
To get a +10 bow ya need to roll An 11-20 on the item chart, then roll 64-100 and repeat rolls until ya get a total of +10 then ya need to roll for weapon if I recall
Ah, classic SeekerofShadowlight!
Oh hey look I need some more popcorn....
We are talking core rules and buying items. Every Metropolis has a 75% chance to have any item under 16'000 GP but has 3d4 items that must me rolled. So saying ya can just buy anything ya want when ya want it is not in core. And when they could not point to where it says they could buy an item out came the craft rules which was not the statement
Ya have a chance to craft it, if ya have the ability and level to do so, but saying your entitled to buy any item when you want it by core is just not true.
Hands
Charender, popcorn
If you use the feat and the time and 25th level and can make the DC ya can craft your +10 bow.
What on earth are you talking about? 25th level? There's no requirement to be 25th level to make a +10 equivalent weapon. Actually, you could make a +10 equivalent weapon at caster level 7 (+2 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic -- and yes, that's a legal weapon by the book and has even been used in official D&D products). It'd be more expensive than you could afford, but you would have the caster level for it.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities.
I would go with a +5 bow with a good enhancement on it, and then fire +1 elemental arrows...
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You are correct, that be 15, typo{I am not sure how I got 25] moment.However zuri's +2 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic would be a total of +8 on ability making it 24 not the stated 7. To add it to a +1 weapon then yes it is CL 7. However the rules state weapon crafters must also have a CL of 3 times the ability or enhancement bonus, which ever is greater.
Anyhow crafting aside you still can not just buy anything you want when you wish.
You are correct, that be 15, typo{I am not sure how I got 25] moment.However zuri's +2 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic would be a total of +8 on ability making it 24 not the stated 7. To add it to a +1 weapon then yes it is CL 7. However the rules state weapon crafters must also have a CL of 3 times the ability or enhancement bonus, which ever is greater.
... you really seriously believe that it is impossible to make weapons of +7 quality or higher in the core rules? Really? Really?
I simply have no words.
Perhaps it would do you a good turn to read more carefully. You need a CL equal to three times the enhancement bonus. What is the enhancement bonus on a +2 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic longbow? Why, 2. 2*3 = 6.
The text specifically and explicitly differentiates between enhancement bonuses and special abilities:
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities.
You are correct, that be 15, typo{I am not sure how I got 25] moment.However zuri's +2 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic would be a total of +8 on ability making it 24 not the stated 7. To add it to a +1 weapon then yes it is CL 7. However the rules state weapon crafters must also have a CL of 3 times the ability or enhancement bonus, which ever is greater.
Actually Zuri is right in this case as its only the highest of the CL. So +2 times 3 is CL6. The other abilities are NOT enhancements and use the CL listed for the special ability which is CL7 for all those. So the CL required to create that weapon is only CL7 not 24.
That's the silliest of them all. Looks like no wizard is EVER gonna have a Staff bounded, go figure.
Just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page about wizards and quarterstaff's as its a double weapon. James Jacobs has said its legal for them to wield the double weapon as a one handed weapon(per core rules) and cast spells. So go forth and bond those quarterstaves.
Bonded Weapons FAQ
You are correct, that be 15, typo{I am not sure how I got 25] moment.However zuri's +2 holy unholy axiomatic anarchic would be a total of +8 on ability making it 24 not the stated 7. To add it to a +1 weapon then yes it is CL 7. However the rules state weapon crafters must also have a CL of 3 times the ability or enhancement bonus, which ever is greater.
Actually Zuri is right in this case as its only the highest of the CL. So +2 times 3 is CL6. The other abilities are NOT enhancements and use the CL listed for the special ability which is CL7 for all those. So the CL required to create that weapon is only CL7 not 24.
That's the silliest of them all. Looks like no wizard is EVER gonna have a Staff bounded, go figure.Just wanted to make sure everyone is on the same page about wizards and quarterstaff's as its a double weapon. James Jacobs has said its legal for them to wield the double weapon as a one handed weapon(per core rules) and cast spells. So go forth and bond those quarterstaves.
Bonded Weapons FAQ
Sorry about that buddy. You are correct. Elven Eldricht knight do NOT use the best weapon for your race and class! Now I am right, right?
Going back to the discussion, I am not sure about you, but I can guarantee that a pretty good DM will tailor lots of stories around the characters and a Holy Avenger with neat abilities is something I believe a whole story can be done around and a major prize for that pally.
It works around any character really, but the pally is the greatest I see.
Just to throw some kerosene on the fire (hate gasoline, smells).
That 75% check for a city having items...
That's per visit, not once ever. We're not in Final Fantasy where each city sells only a set list of items for all eternity (Potions here, High Potions there, Elixirs in the city next to the final boss).
So... city doesn't have what you are looking for, come back in a week and get a new check (exact time may vary obviously, a mountain stronghold 5 weeks from the nearest city is probably once every 6 months while a major city on a caravan route might even be daily).
First off I do not agree +9 in ability is just CL 7 No more then +5 Enhancement total is CL 3 because you started with a +1 and just bumbed it up. A +5 weapon with +5 ability is a CL 15 but +1 with +9 ability is CL 7...sure ok You can read it how ever ya wish.
Also
I did not say once ever. However if it's above 16'000 then it's not at 75% chance but has to be randomly rolled and one of the 3d4 items. And truth is guys the 3d4 items will not change all that fast as well your fabled +10 weapon is 220'000 gp and really very, very few people can afford such an artifact
By RAW you still can not buy anything you want just when you want it. Good chance of it if it is under 16'000 and your at one of the worlds major cites however.
Ya can prob craft the item if you put work into it and have near unlimited downtime but you can not just go buy anything. Not by the rules.
First off I do not agree +9 in ability is just CL 7 No more then +5 Enhancement total is CL 3 because you started with a +1 and just bumbed it up. A +5 weapon with +5 ability is a CL 15 but +1 with +9 ability is CL 7...sure ok You can read it how ever ya wish.
So in other words, a +7 equivalent weapon or higher is utterly impossible to make, which means they're also impossible to buy. Gotcha. Glad I'm not playing in any of your games...
On the other hand, it does explain why you don't think it's any big deal to cap enchantments at +10 total, since there's no other way to get there than greater magic weapon, magic vestment, or the Paladin or Arcane Archer class features in your games.
PS. If the CL to make an item is dependent on the bonus equivalent of the special abilities, why does a speed weapon have a required caster level of 7 when it's a +3 bonus? (3 ability + 1 enhancement) * 3 = 12 CL required, by your interpretation.
Ya know for someone who called me a lier for stating what your proved and likes to say I twist words, your good at not only twisting words but misuseing and failing to have basic understanding of them.
+7 in ability alone would be 21 caster level yes. But not a total of +7...ya need to read the post before you comment, it does help. That is how I read the rules...please show me where it says you do not use the total for ability like you do enhancement. This my not be the way most of you see the rules but it does follow what is written.
And your PS is wrong of course. I can't expect you to ya know read a post. +3 ablity s and a +1 enhancement would be CL 9...ya knew the highest of 1 or 3 is indeed 3.
You proved yourself wrong on the buying an item now your using craft to deflect the fact you were wrong.
That is how I read the rules...please show me where it says you do not use the total for ability like you do enhancement.
Magic Item Creation Rules, Weapon Section:
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
Notice the period there at the end? Periods mean "This thought is completed". Now, what is an enhancement bonus?
Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat.
That quite clearly states that an enhancement bonus is the "plus" of the weapon.
Now, later on the magic weapon creation rules state this:
If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
First, this very clearly separates enhancement bonuses and special abilities. Since the caster level * 3 rule only applies to enhancement bonuses, that should end the argument. Just because I know it won't, however, let's see how the rules define special abilities. Back to page 467:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
Note that nowhere does it use "enhancement bonus" or "equivalent to enhancement bonus" or "enhancement bonus equivalent" or anything else remotely like stating that a special ability is an enhancement bonus. In fact, it again specifically separates special ability bonuses and enhancement bonuses when it talks about the modified bonus cap.
EDIT: As for the "higher of the bonuses" stuff you're talking about, that's stated nowhere in the rules. The rules state that the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. The two caster level requirements are (bonus*3) for enhancement bonuses and the number listed in the special ability for special abilities. Note that the subject of the phrase is "caster level", not "effective enhancement bonus" (which phrase, indeed, does not even appear anywhere at all on any page in the rules).
And your PS is wrong of course. I can't expect you to ya know read a post. +3 ablity s and a +1 enhancement would be CL 9...ya knew the highest of 1 or 3 is indeed 3.
I asked why speed weapons had a caster level of 7 with a +3 special ability bonus, when by your house rules the minimum caster level would be higher than that.
Care to actually answer the question instead of dodging it?
by itself no, added ontop of another ablity yes it would. Just like if you make a +1 sword a + 5 it does not have the CL of a +1 sword anymore. I have seen nothing that would say any diffent. I can see the other side but I do not agree with it nor does anything written in the book rule out my interpretation.
Just like if you make a +1 sword a + 5 it does not have the CL of a +1 sword anymore.
... that's because 5*3 = 15, which is greater than 1*3 = 3.
Your point escapes me.
Nowhere in the rules does it say that special abilities are enhancement bonuses. In fact, it specifically calls them something different (special ability bonuses) and says that you add the enhancement bonus and the special ability bonus to find the total bonus of the weapon. The only CL=bonus*3 rule in the entire book is the CL=bonus*3 rule for weapon and armor enhancement bonuses. Not weapon and armor enhancement and special ability bonuses. Just enhancement.
it says enhancement or ablity which ever is higher. So your +5 sowrd you just pay for +4 huh. Which is what you seem to be saying if you can not see my point. Speed +flaming+ holy is not just speed.
If you do not see the point you simply do not wish to and there is little point in me trying to explain it yet again.
it says enhancement or ablity which ever is higher. So your +5 sowrd you just pay for +4 huh. Which is what you seem to be saying if you can not see my point. Speed +flaming+ holy is not just speed.
This is a strawman. It says "Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met." I never stated that you could enchant a +5 greatsword with a caster level of 12. I said you could enchant a +2 holy unholy anarchic axiomatic greatsword with a caster level of 7. SPECIAL ABILITY BONUSES ARE NOT ENHANCEMENT BONUSES.
If you do not see the point you simply do not wish to and there is little point in me trying to explain it yet again.
If you do not see the point you simply do not wish to and there is little point in me trying to explain it yet again.
PS. You still havn't answered why a speed weapon has a listed caster level of 7 even though it's a +3 special ability bonus.