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Hey guys, I have an idea for a PFS character, but came up with some gray areas in the rules. Since this is going to be in PFS I would like an official response from Paizo as different GMs allow different things when there are ambiguities in the rules.
First off:
Dervish Dance
You have learned to turn your speed into power, even with a heavier blade.Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar.
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
Basic assumption: Touch attacks can be use Weapon Finesse.
So, the question is what counts as "holding a weapon or shield" in the off-hand? I was assuming this was because the extra weight in the off hand prevented you from moving properly to gain the benefit of the feat. If you have a touch spell, like produce flame or shocking grasp in your off hand, does that negate the benefit of the feat? If you attack with the scimitar and the touch spell does that negate the benefits from the feat( obviously taking the appropriate 2-weapon fighting penalties )?
Thanks! (( Again I welcome and desire the opinions of the community, but as I am trying to make a pfs character and don't want to be subject to the individual GMs interpretation of the rules, I'd appreciate a paizo ruling one way or the other )).
Creative Director
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A touch spell won't negate the benefit of the feat, unless that touch spell specifically gives you a weaponlike attack, such as flame blade does. Furthermore, the flavor of Dervish Dance implies that you're simply attacking with one weapon. If you use a spell to try to trick the feat into letting you get away with using two weapons, the GM is well within his rights to say that the effects of Dervish Dance don't function as long as you're doing two-weapon fighting.
Dervish Dance isn't supposed to reward tricky-thinking two-weapon fighters, after all. It's supposed to make fighting with a single weapon more attractive, so as soon as you start trying to game the system to get an off-hand attack, you're breaking the spirit of Dervish Dance and the feat should stop working. You can certainly still cast spells with your off hand and make touch attacks, but making touch attacks with spells is generally not something you can do with two weapon fighting.
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Dervish Dance is also specifically intended to let you use a scimitar with the duelist prestige class, as many of the duelist's abilities require (1) no weapon or shield in the off-hand, and (2) your weapon has to be a *piercing* weapon.
What source book does Dervish Dance come from?
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Okay, thanks guys! I wasn't trying to get around the restrictions on Dervish Dance, I just wasn't sure exactly what they were going for as an unarmed strike or natural weapon attack seemed to be allowed based on the text. I thought the purpose was just to allow high dex characters a more attractive way to use a scimitar.
So, basically, attacking with your off-hand will negate the feat bonuses for that round as will carrying a shield or other item in that hand.
Thanks for the clarification!
What source book does Dervish Dance come from?
This is also in the Inner Seas World guide.
Based on what is said here the Dervish Dance feat is incompatible with the Magus's Spell combat and spell strike.
The feat should be reworded as "as long as your off hand is not used" which means no spells, no wands, no punches or kicks, etc.
No they said you can cast with your off hand. Your not attacking with your offhand as a Magus you are still using your main hand for the attack.
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"Dervish Dance isn't supposed to reward tricky-thinking two-weapon fighters, after all. It's supposed to make fighting with a single weapon more attractive, so as soon as you start trying to game the system to get an off-hand attack, you're breaking the spirit of Dervish Dance and the feat should stop working. "
This makes it sound like it shouldn't work.
I don't think I'd consider a Magus as a "tricky-thinking two-weapon fighter", but I could be wrong.
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At the very least, this feat should have an errata for clarity, since every magus ever uses this now.
Hey, Str magus is still a respectable progression. I don't think it needs errata; I don't see what about it needs clarifying. Scimitar in one hand/no shield or weapon in off-hand = Dex to damage. A spell is usually not a physical weapon.
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A touch spell won't negate the benefit of the feat, unless that touch spell specifically gives you a weaponlike attack, such as flame blade does. Furthermore, the flavor of Dervish Dance implies that you're simply attacking with one weapon. If you use a spell to try to trick the feat into letting you get away with using two weapons, the GM is well within his rights to say that the effects of Dervish Dance don't function as long as you're doing two-weapon fighting.
Dervish Dance isn't supposed to reward tricky-thinking two-weapon fighters, after all. It's supposed to make fighting with a single weapon more attractive, so as soon as you start trying to game the system to get an off-hand attack, you're breaking the spirit of Dervish Dance and the feat should stop working. You can certainly still cast spells with your off hand and make touch attacks, but making touch attacks with spells is generally not something you can do with two weapon fighting.
Actually they said you can still cast a spell with the off hand, just that if you attack with the off hand a GM is within his rights to say no. A Magus casts with off hand and fights with the main hand weapon.
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No, those options go against the intention of the feat. Did you not read what James Jacobs said?All you have to ask yourself is whether you are following the rule as written. Are you carrying a weapon or a shield in you off had? If the answer is no, then you are not in violation of the feat.
So, unarmed strikes, natural weapons, touch attacks (if they don't require you to carry a weapon) are all legal.
Dervish Dance isn't supposed to reward tricky-thinking two-weapon fighters, after all. It's supposed to make fighting with a single weapon more attractive, so as soon as you start trying to game the system to get an off-hand attack, you're breaking the spirit of Dervish Dance and the feat should stop working.
No.
what subject?