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Retiring Scenarios
Over the next several years the 3.5 scenarios from Season 0 will either be retired or converted to Pathfinder RPG (time permitting). We will always give a one-month warning of an impending retirement meaning you have four weeks to purchase, play, and report that scenario as official play. Once the scenario is retired, though, it is no longer legal for play, will no longer be purchasable, and will be removed entirely from the reporting system meaning you can no longer legally apply it to your character.This is your one month warning for the following scenarios: #10: Blood at Dralkard Manor and #15: The Asmodeus Mirage. On March 29, 2010, these two scenarios will no longer be purchasable, will no longer be able to be reported on, and will no longer be legally applicable to a Pathfinder Society character.
There were some great Season 0 scenarios, some of which remain among my favourites.
Meanwhile, #15: The Asmodeus Mirage received numerous critical feedback, including the 24hr time-limit, as well as seemingly random odd encounter choices (polar bears in a desert environment). However, after running it a few times, I've found you can make the Mirage a memorable scenario. The gnoll village in particular presented good opportunities for roleplay and could have been made the focus of the scenario.
So I'm hoping (time permitting) a few of these will be converted, because I'm interested to see how they'll transition with Pathfinder RPG and the benefit of hindsight.
Joshua,
For all those that ran over the weekend, are the new changes starting today based on the date of the event or the date of the reporting? In other words, if someone ran a game yesterday but did not report it til today, what do they get credit for?
This is largely an honor system, but the intent is that your new rewards begin today and anything you ran this weekend was on the old reward system.
My new Pathfinder Society card (great design, by the way!) only has one star... but I run a session every other weekend at our FLGS. The store owner does all the reporting, but my number should show up as GM. Is this possibly just an oversight? Or do I only get credit for running a session the first time?
It was a rough count, but looking at your sessions you've only been reported as GM on ~15 scenarios. If you've run more than that, you should ask whomever was doing the reporting.
Josh:
Does a GM have to have four stars already before you award a fifth star, or can a fifth star be 'put on one side' for later qualification? If a GM only has 86 games GM'ed when you see him/her running a game at a convention, and his/her manner of running a game seems otherwise good to you, will you make a note on their account that once he/she reaches 100+ games that the 5th star can be awarded straight away, or will that GM have to wait possibly several more years to meet you at a convention again?
Well, that depends. There are some 4-star GMs right now that I could easily give a 5th star to based on past experience with them, but to avoid the image of nepotism, I want to see them again now that the system is in place to award them the 5th star. Rest-assured I am traveling to more varied places in the coming years.
So I'm hoping (time permitting) a few of these will be converted, because I'm interested to see how they'll transition with Pathfinder RPG and the benefit of hindsight.
I won't retire and then update a scenario. These two are going to be retired. There are others I know I'm going to update and others that I know will be retired, but I'll never do both to a scenario.
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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It was a rough count, but looking at your sessions you've only been reported as GM on ~15 scenarios. If you've run more than that, you should ask whomever was doing the reporting.
I assume that the count starts with the official release of Season 1 then, since the GM Rewards didn't kick in until then... what would be the official date that sessions are backtracked to? The FLGS has ALL the session reporting sheets dating back to when we started. It helps us keep track of how many times a scenario has been run, to avoid overplay. With the "play, play, play" change to replay, this might become a fairly moot point, though.
Anything that was reported back to day 1 counts and I only see ~15 reports in your sessions. If your FLGS has reporting sheets that haven't been reported, you should go ahead and report them.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Looking over everything in more detail tonight, the one thing I'd love to see would be a GMed scenarios count somewhere. The sessions page is hard to siphon through if you have multiple PCs, and the more tables you've run, the more lines you have, since each table reported shows all PCs for each one. Perhaps a count at the bottom along with faction points (though I don't know if those are even needed anymore, given the current PA system.)
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First off, great work! I think these changes do speak directly to the tone of the feedback I've seen in these message boards, and I for one welcome our new Reward Masters!
New Chronicle Sheet System
Another system that we feel was unfairly punishing GMs and simply isn't necessary, is the rule that you can only purchase items off your last three chronicle sheets. That rule is now abolished. From now on, your character may purchase items off any chronicle sheet that has been applied to him.
I know this is the first phase of a three phase roll out and as a reporting GM I'm clearly covered by this, but how does this affect just players? From all the tone and wording for this announcement my guess is: NOT AT ALL.
Is it reasonable to assume the same thing is coming for just players?
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I know this is the first phase of a three phase roll out and as a reporting GM I'm clearly covered by this, but how does this affect just players? From all the tone and wording for this announcement my guess is: NOT AT ALL.
Is it reasonable to assume the same thing is coming for just players?
The quote you gave was under the heading New Chronicle Sheet System (notice no GM in the title) The last three headers (Retiring old scenarios, new chronicles sheet system, and Replaying scenarios) are general changes and not just for GMs (although they affect GMs the most) At least that is how i read it... all of the other sessions has GM in the title, so i'm guessing if this were limited to GMs, it would have it in the title as well
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The quote you gave was under the heading New Chronicle Sheet System (notice no GM in the title) The last three headers (Retiring old scenarios, new chronicles sheet system, and Replaying scenarios) are general changes and not just for GMs (although they affect GMs the most) At least that is how i read it... all of the other sessions has GM in the title, so i'm guessing if this were limited to GMs, it would have it in the title as well
Hence why I ask. Every other section for Phase I really deals directly with GMs and the wording in that section also seems aimed (mostly) at GMs but isn't 100% translucent to me.
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I'm getting positive feedback from my group on the changes, it seems like a step in the right direction. I'd like to see a rewards system for the players akin to the campaign cards used in that other campaign.
Although I appreciate the GM rating system, it seems like the five star achievement will only be known to the individual involved. Unless a GM is crass enough to brag about it, a fellow Society member will never know what rating a GM carries. I speak for my fellow GMs, not for myself, since I have previously established that I am a shameless self-promoter and horn-tooter. Can we get the GM rating integrated into our profiles instead of on our personal PFS page? And an actual scenario count would be nice like Mark mentioned. Just something to think about for Phase Four...
Out of curiousity, what's your GM rating Josh? ;)
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Although I appreciate the GM rating system, it seems like the five star achievement will only be known to the individual involved. Unless a GM is crass enough to brag about it, a fellow Society member will never know what rating a GM carries.
I picture the 5-star GMs channelling Bart from Blazing Saddles as they slap their 5-star badges on the gaming table, "Excuse me while I whip this out."
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I love seeing the GMs get rewarded, but event coordinators aren't always GMs or frequent GMs. I spend several hours each week organizing a regular multiple table game night, but you'd never know that from my GM history (I'm sure I have no stars). It's not that I won't GM, but I feel I can better serve my game group in other ways. Would you consider a way to recognize those efforts? Thanks...
I agree I think Coordinators should be recognized, But not in the way I think you are looking for. I have a few Ideas I would like to suggest here for future consideration.
Coordinators - I think you should track them and add the title Coordinator on the Pathfinder Society Badge for those that are coordinators and also add a means to contact them if they so choose for finding groups.
GMs - Add the GM title to the Pathfinder Society Badge and if they are also a coordinator add both! Being both would be a good indication for those that deserve 5 Stars and for future consideration for Regional organizers.
Future Future Consideration when you set up regions:
Name the regions after Countries/Kingdoms on Golarion, and allow local groups to have team names, either small home game groups or larger Local groups that play at local shops. You can also add regional competition based on Games played/run in the region and at the end of the season the region with the most games played/run can get something in game or some other prize, this would be a good incentive to recruit new players and also you won't have the problems like you had with the faction competitions of possible PvP because the vast majority of the time everyone in the game will be from the same region, except for major Conventions, and even at major conventions this competition has no incentive to encourage PvP. Another possible Idea is maybe some kind of Region Vs Region competition at a Major Convention like GenCon, though at this time I can not think of what that would entail.
So far I do like what you have added with this Josh and I think the Society can go far with the possibilities ahead!
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The changes that have been made are good. I believe the GM rewards are fair and will get more people to run the scenario's.
The GM star system really doesn't matter to me. I could care less about how many stars I have or how many stars my GM has. 100 stars does not equal a good GM, just a GM with lots of free time on his/her hands. This system is clearly for the benefit of the GM who feels they need to brag about how many sessions they have run. As a player and a GM, I don't care.
The replay rules seem to be a fair compromise. The goal is to allow the game to happen and not get caught up on the replay issue. But to eliminate abuse, we all must stick to the rules. So if I am about to let a player replay a scenario and then the 4th player shows up, then the replay player is out.
Retiring scenario's is good and bad. We had to scramble to change our line up this month so we could enjoy #10 and #15 before they are gone. I would prefer a 60 day notice myself or a schedule or what is retiring so we can provide these options to our players.
Thanks for all of your hard work Josh. We appreciate it.
Hence why I ask. Every other section for Phase I really deals directly with GMs and the wording in that section also seems aimed (mostly) at GMs but isn't 100% translucent to me.
The new chronicle sheet system applies to both players and GMs. The GM section, of course, applies to GMs, and the rest are general changes that apply to everyone.
Phase 1 of 3. ;-)
Will updated scenarios have to be repurchased?
That's a negative Ghost Rider.
I'm getting positive feedback from my group on the changes
Good to know. :-)
I'd like to see a rewards system for the players
One step at a time. :-)
Can we get the GM rating integrated into our profiles instead of on our personal PFS page?
That was originally part of the Phase 1 plan, but I can't remember at the moment why we held that off. I'm pretty sure it was a bit more complicated code-wise. That's something I'll put back on the table after Gen Con.
And an actual scenario count would be nice like Mark mentioned.
I agree, that's a good idea.
Out of curiousity, what's your GM rating Josh? ;)
The GM Rating is for GMs, not me.
Can we get the GM rating integrated into our profiles instead of on our personal PFS page?From Comments Josh has made, it sounds like 5 start GM may be a tag next to your name. Maybe.
Nope. There are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many tags on the boards already and we're not really interested in doing more of them, to be honest. Adding it to the profile is something to think about down the road.
So if I am about to let a player replay a scenario and then the 4th player shows up, then the replay player is out.
If the only way that player can play is to replay the scenario, then the "Play Play Play" rule says he can play.
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If the only way that player can play is to replay the scenario, then the "Play Play Play" rule says he can play.So if I am about to let a player replay a scenario and then the 4th player shows up, then the replay player is out.
I know this is in a related vein, but I'm curious. I understand the Play, Play, Play rule and how it would apply to public games and conventions, but does it apply to the same degree in home games?
If I have a scheduled home game where we play scenarios and Player X says he's going to be out of town, so we decide to play the scenario he's already played, but then Player X discovers he's going to be in town, should he sit-out, would the Play, Play, Play rule apply, or would you prefer the home game players just switch scenarios?
I think the home game players have a higher degree of flexibility than a random group gathering at a game store or convention, so I guess I would say that I prefer the home game to avoid replay as much as possible, but what I prefer and what the GM needs to do in his game to keep is players happy can be two different things. In the end, I leave it up to the GMs to keep their players happy.
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Retiring scenarios with only 30 days notice might cause problems for PbP games, the Eye of the Crocodile King game I'm running has been going on for almost two months now and we're only half way through. Maybe if you allow reporting to continue so long as the date the game started was before retirement?
Otherwise though, the changes look good (especially removing the 3 chronicle sheet limit for purchases).
Maybe if you allow reporting to continue so long as the date the game started was before retirement?
Well, there's not really a way to do that. :-/ Once we remove the scenario from the system, you won't be able to report on it at all.
I'll keep that in mind, though, and should I hit some of those problems with future retirements, I'll find a way around it.
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Josh,
I hope you have a defibrillator handy.
I like the new change in the judge rewards and can tolerate the change in replay as I will likely never have to see replay happening at anything I muster or play. That it does this and still lets people in smaller markets do their thing is good.
When will these changes make it into the organized play guide? Last I looked 12/4/9 was still the current version available to download. That was Monday night so if it has already been done just ignore that part, or better yet let me know somehow. "Duh!! look again!" would be a valid answer btw.
Den
Thanks, den.
I plan to input those changes, and others, into the next version of the guide in the coming days and weeks. It's pretty close to the top of my to-do list.
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I have a couple of clarifications based on the new PFS rules.
First, at GenCon I went through Scenario 29 & Scenario 30 as a player w/ my character Harek. Now i'm preparing to run them for a group of friends on Saturday and I don't wanna take any inappropriate credit. So my reading of the rules is as follows...
1. I would get GMing credit for running these two scenarios.
2. That credit would have to be applied to a DIFFERENT character.
Second, at GenCon, my best friend also went through Scenario 29 & Scenario 30 w/ his character. We're hoping he can play on Saturday as well, but again, we don't want to take inappropriate credit. So would he be eligible for credit with a different character? Or at least could he merely play through again for no credit?
Thank you very much!
I have a couple of clarifications based on the new PFS rules.First, at GenCon I went through Scenario 29 & Scenario 30 as a player w/ my character Harek. Now i'm preparing to run them for a group of friends on Saturday and I don't wanna take any inappropriate credit. So my reading of the rules is as follows...
1. I would get GMing credit for running these two scenarios.
2. That credit would have to be applied to a DIFFERENT character.
No, you may only receive credit for a scenario once. So if you played it and got credit, you don't get additional credit as a GM to apply to another character. Otherwise GMs could conceivably have twice as many max level PCs as folks who just play. Here's the relevant quote from the post:
"A GM may still only apply a chronicle from a specific scenario to his PC one time--e.g., he may only receive character credit for GMing #29: Shipyard Rats once. Any additional sessions GMing that scenario are for no additional credit, but will of course apply to his GM Ranking (noted above)."
Second, at GenCon, my best friend also went through Scenario 29 & Scenario 30 w/ his character. We're hoping he can play on Saturday as well, but again, we don't want to take inappropriate credit. So would he be eligible for credit with a different character? Or at least could he merely play through again for no credit?
Thank you very much!
If the only way you can make a legal table is for your friend to replay either of these scenarios, he may do so so long as he doesn't play the same character or the same faction as before. When he plays with a different character and faction he gets full credit for his new PC.
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When will these changes make it into the organized play guide? Last I looked 12/4/9 was still the current version available to download. That was Monday night so if it has already been done just ignore that part, or better yet let me know somehow. "Duh!! look again!" would be a valid answer btw.Den
I have a feeling that this is official 'they are in the rules' so that the community can read/digest and ask questions of all 3 parts before the final wording is finalized for the guide. This way the first round of FAQ is already in the guide with the rules. It also means they have to wait for all 3 parts of the revision have been releases, digested, and spat back out before updating the guide.
edit: ninjaed
I'll update the guide with each new phase of changes.
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Not "Blood at Dralkard Manor"!!! I loved that one!
Sigh... guess I was in the minority.
So, what about the glitches in the game reporting system where some of our games didn't report? I'm guessing we should go ahead and try to re-report them and see if they take this time, so we can get credit for our GM score and our players can get official credit? I know that you said before that the player's sheet is their official record, but considering that the GM's logs is their official record... just wondering.
Thanks for the update, though! I really like the opportunity for the replay of scenarios.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The GM star system really doesn't matter to me. I could care less about how many stars I have or how many stars my GM has. 100 stars does not equal a good GM, just a GM with lots of free time on his/her hands. This system is clearly for the benefit of the GM who feels they need to brag about how many sessions they have run. As a player and a GM, I don't care.
I certainly appreciate this point of view, but I expect this system to deliver benefits that are not immediately obvious. While you're right to assume that a 4-star judge with 100 scenarios under his belt isn't necessarily better than a first-time judge, we'd like to think that that 400+ hours of game play have, at the very least, instilled some lessons about how to handle a table, how the special rules of the campaign work, and other similar things.
The five star rating ought to really mean something, though, because it's going to involve a personal vetting process--starting with our campaign manager at Paizo Con and Gen Con, but eventually expanding beyond that.
Once a cadre of 5-star, truly exceptional judges has been established, we will be able to run special events at big shows specifically with 5-star judges. We hope to make a table with a 5-star judge a truly special event. If you've ever seen Nick Logue's Iron Dungeonmaster program at Gen Con or spent a huge amount of time at convention games, you know that there are some judges who are absolutely in the top 1% of judges. Perhaps you are lucky enough to have one of these judges as your personal GM for your home game, or perhaps you yourself are among the best of the best.
We want to identify good GM practices and good GMs. We hope to be able to have some of these folks run seminars on good judging, compile some tips, and offer amazing play experiences for Pathfinder Society events all over the world.
Getting to 100 scenarios judged means you've put in the time to known and understand the structure of the Society and its adventures. If you're an absolutely AWESOME judge _on top_ of all that experience, you're exactly the type of representative we want to be putting forward as the best the Pathfinder Society has to offer.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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With respect:
Josh, it's unlikely that I would be in the running for a four-star rating for a long time. But let's say that I am, and do, and there I am GMing at GenCon, and you come over and evaluate my skills, and I am not, in Erik's words "absolutely AWESOME", just continually engaging, fair, and, hey, not sucky. When you come by, my players are having a great time (or, you know, not; there are perpetually grumpy players out there) but it's not an "amazing play experience". I'm just not "truly exceptional".
So, I don't get a fifth star.
Do I find out why?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Chris,
We will have some objective and subjective criteria. If you've judged 100 scenarios and all of your players are having a good time you will very likely receive a 5th star. The whole point is delivering a great experience to the players. If you are doing that, you have nothing to worry about. You will know you are being evaluated, and Josh (for now, but later other 5-star judges and regional coordinators) will talk to you about it. It's not a super secret process, or isn't meant to be, anyway.
So, what about the glitches in the game reporting system where some of our games didn't report?
If you previously tried to report a session and it didn't take, please try again. There are also changes coming to the reporting system, but that's for another Phase announcement.
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The GM star system really doesn't matter to me. I could care less about how many stars I have or how many stars my GM has. 100 stars does not equal a good GM, just a GM with lots of free time on his/her hands. This system is clearly for the benefit of the GM who feels they need to brag about how many sessions they have run. As a player and a GM, I don't care.
I certainly appreciate this point of view, but I expect this system to deliver benefits that are not immediately obvious. While you're right to assume that a 4-star judge with 100 scenarios under his belt isn't necessarily better than a first-time judge, we'd like to think that that 400+ hours of game play have, at the very least, instilled some lessons about how to handle a table, how the special rules of the campaign work, and other similar things.
The five star rating ought to really mean something, though, because it's going to involve a personal vetting process--starting with our campaign manager at Paizo Con and Gen Con, but eventually expanding beyond that.
Once a cadre of 5-star, truly exceptional judges has been established, we will be able to run special events at big shows specifically with 5-star judges. We hope to make a table with a 5-star judge a truly special event. If you've ever seen Nick Logue's Iron Dungeonmaster program at Gen Con or spent a huge amount of time at convention games, you know that there are some judges who are absolutely in the top 1% of judges. Perhaps you are lucky enough to have one of these judges as your personal GM for your home game, or perhaps you yourself are among the best of the best.
We want to identify good GM practices and good GMs. We hope to be able to have some of these folks run seminars on good judging, compile some tips, and offer amazing play experiences for Pathfinder Society events all over the world.
Getting to 100 scenarios judged means you've put in the time to known and understand the structure of the Society and its adventures. If...
I do think you guys are on to something here.
Question though, if I run lets say a game or two at GenCon and get seen by Josh, will there be a "report card" to let me know if what I should improve to get that 5th star or something like it?
I'm not really that worried about it, it sounds like you are still working this out. But I have to tell you, I signed on to do Pathfinder Society games at GenCon to make myself a stronger DM. So I consider the GenCon feedback as a plus for the home game that I run. Adding Paizo feedback would be kinda nice.
I do realize that its a double edged sword as some people might not like feedback and that giving feedback for all the GMs could be a nightmare of time management.
I'm interested if you guys have worked this out.
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New Chronicle Sheet System
Another system that we feel was unfairly punishing GMs and simply isn't necessary, is the rule that you can only purchase items off your last three chronicle sheets. That rule is now abolished. From now on, your character may purchase items off any chronicle sheet that has been applied to him. If your character is level 7 and has 21 chronicle sheets to his name, he can now buy anything available to him off all 21 of those chronicle sheets. Keep in mind that any item that has a purchase limit is still limited (so, for example, if it's limited to only 1 purchase, then over the life of that character he may only buy that item one time off the chronicle sheet) and keep in mind that a GM holding future higher-level chronicle sheets to apply to his character may not buy anything off those "on-hold" chronicles.
Ok with all that said lets say i am level 7 and have the 21 CSs then can i have buy anything from those sheets? I mean even if it is the first CS i ever got at level 1 can i buy the 5-6 tier items or even the 6-7 tier since i am level 7 now? My understanding you marked all of the higher tier items off and cant buy those ever. Anyway i like the new changes...a lot!
Ok with all that said lets say i am level 7 and have the 21 CSs then can i have buy anything from those sheets? I mean even if it is the first CS i ever got at level 1 can i buy the 5-6 tier items or even the 6-7 tier since i am level 7 now? My understanding you marked all of the higher tier items off and cant buy those ever. Anyway i like the new changes...a lot!
Actually, if you have 21 CS, you would be 8th level if none of them are from running high tier games, but that is not the point you are asking. What is meant is that any CS you have for that character, so long as the level of the character is equal to or higher than the tier for that CS, then you can buy from it. If you have a 7th level character and you run a scenario where all the tiers are too high for your character, then you still get a CS but you have to save it til your character reaches that level and then you apply your GM rewards from that sheet to your character and can then buy from it.
I think what he's specifically asking is if his first chronicle sheet for a character was for Tier 1-7 and he's now on his 21st chronicle sheet, is he still restricted on his first chronicle sheet to only getting items from the sub-Tier he played, likely sub-Tier 1-2 in this example.
The answer is, yes, you're still restricted. Any items you don't find during a scenario are crossed off and are not legal for purchase, this goes for any items in a higher sub-Tier than yours.
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I think what he's specifically asking is if his first chronicle sheet for a character was for Tier 1-7 and he's now on his 21st chronicle sheet, is he still restricted on his first chronicle sheet to only getting items from the sub-Tier he played, likely sub-Tier 1-2 in this example.
The answer is, yes, you're still restricted. Any items you don't find during a scenario are crossed off and are not legal for purchase, this goes for any items in a higher sub-Tier than yours.
That is exactly what i wanted to know, Thanks Joshua!