Hello,
I search a mean to obtain a (masterwork) full plate at 1st level.
I finf the rich parents traits that permit to obtain 900 gp.
Are there other feat or trait that permits to obtain more money or a specific item ?
Thanks for your future help.
Hello,
I search a mean to obtain a (masterwork) full plate at 1st level.I finf the rich parents traits that permit to obtain 900 gp.
Are there other feat or trait that permits to obtain more money or a specific item ?
Thanks for your future help.
I am going to regret asking this, but ... why do you want it?
Other then your GM giving it to ya, not anyway ya can get it at level 1 I know of.
You can however start out with half plate. Which is one point less.
Hello,
Are there other feat or trait that permits to obtain more money or a specific item ?
NOBLE SCION [House Jeggare] is a Chelaxian feat from the PF Chronicles Campaign Setting that grants another 200 starting gold. And 10,000 GP more at 10th Level.
Sleep with the DM.
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Just remember that Rich Parents changes your starting gold TO 900gp, and it is not an additional 900gp.
Grab the Extra Traits feat and use it to gain the Duskwalker of Katapesh trait, which doubles your starting gold. Play a half-elf with the highest Int score you can get and take Craft(armorsmithing). Put your Skill Focus into Craft(armorsmithing).
Then you can craft the fullplate yourself.
Of course, I've never used the Craft rules myself, so I don't know how much that would cast...
With a 14 Int
Craft(Armorsmithing): 9=2(Int)+1(rank)+3(if a class skill)+3(Skill Focus)
Sleep with the DM.Nice one. But even this doesnt always get you what you want.
Well, it all depends on the DM. And the player.
DMs who pretend to be untouchable and impossible to bribe are just more expensive.I know i am ;)
Doing the following will do exactly what you're asking for and it doesn't need the Extra Traits feat.
Rich Parents (Social Trait) 900 GP
Noble Scion (Feat) 200 GP
Duskwalker Agent (Region Trait) Doubles Starting Gold
TOTAL: 2,200 GP
Plus he gets 10% off his starting gear, cause one can assume he bought it in the Nightstalls. So a Masterwork Full Plate costs 1485 gold
Rust monster.
Zo
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Doing the following will do exactly what you're asking for and it doesn't need the Extra Traits feat.
Rich Parents (Social Trait) 900 GP
Noble Scion (Feat) 200 GP
Duskwalker Agent (Region Trait) Doubles Starting GoldTOTAL: 2,200 GP
Plus he gets 10% off his starting gear, cause one can assume he bought it in the Nightstalls. So a Masterwork Full Plate costs 1485 gold
Wouldn't the feat and the duskwalker trait be exclusive? One assuming you are from Cheliax and another assuming you grew up in the Nightstalls?
Wouldn't the feat and the duskwalker trait be exclusive? One assuming you are from Cheliax and another assuming you grew up in the Nightstalls?Doing the following will do exactly what you're asking for and it doesn't need the Extra Traits feat.
Rich Parents (Social Trait) 900 GP
Noble Scion (Feat) 200 GP
Duskwalker Agent (Region Trait) Doubles Starting GoldTOTAL: 2,200 GP
Plus he gets 10% off his starting gear, cause one can assume he bought it in the Nightstalls. So a Masterwork Full Plate costs 1485 gold
Yep. The Character Traits web enhancement for the Core book states that at 1st level you may only select one regional trait. Even taking the Extra Traits Feat does not allow more that one regional trait at 1st level.
Edit: Of course, I just noticed the conflicting items are a feat and a trait and not two traits, so what I said would not apply in that situation. As for the conflict Coridan pointed out, the regional traits info says you only have to live at least one year in a region in order to take a trait tied to it, so if your DM approves that back story for your character to qualify for that trait and feat, then it could be done.
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Yep. The Character Traits web enhancement for the Core book states that at 1st level you may only select one regional trait. Even taking the Extra Traits Feat does not allow more that one regional trait at 1st level.Wouldn't the feat and the duskwalker trait be exclusive? One assuming you are from Cheliax and another assuming you grew up in the Nightstalls?Doing the following will do exactly what you're asking for and it doesn't need the Extra Traits feat.
Rich Parents (Social Trait) 900 GP
Noble Scion (Feat) 200 GP
Duskwalker Agent (Region Trait) Doubles Starting GoldTOTAL: 2,200 GP
Plus he gets 10% off his starting gear, cause one can assume he bought it in the Nightstalls. So a Masterwork Full Plate costs 1485 gold
It seems such difficult bending backwards for armour that will be obsolete in a few levels, but the power deficiency of wasted feats and traits will sting for all your levels.
Well - assuming you are trying to give the character armor passed down the family line, buy it for the PC in the broken condition, which would make it cheaper. You can then repair it over time.
As an alternative, with DM permission, treat it as breastplate that could be upgraded to full plate. To do so, pay full price for breastplate and the raw material price for the price difference between full and breast plate. This of course would require DM approval.
Now, if you simply want full plate for protection value - you will not be able to accomplish this with traits (can not take 2 regional, as mentioned above), but perhaps you can buy the raw material value of the armor and get to work/crafting. Now, I assume any DM worth his salt would not let you craft it before the game starts - otherwise craft skills would allow all PCs to multiple their effective starting gold - imagine a group of 4 players that take craft skills for armor, weapons, and alchemy. Buy raw materials, and spend the first 1-3 games staying in town to craft equipment on the cheap. Yikes!
Note - doing this for character back story is great, but as far as min/max, it seems to be a bit of a waste. After a couple levels, you will be regretting this purchase unless the DM allows you to have the armor enchanted.
Beholderbob
Now, I assume any DM worth his salt would not let you craft it before the game starts - otherwise craft skills would allow all PCs to multiple their effective starting gold - imagine a group of 4 players that take craft skills for armor, weapons, and alchemy. Buy raw materials, and spend the first 1-3 games staying in town to craft equipment on the cheap. Yikes!
This was gone over extensively a while back in another thread on when crafting skills should be allowed to be used (pre-game, during game, down time) and one thing that was determined was that it would take one person working alone well over a year to craft a set of masterwork full plate. So Yikes! is right!
Note - doing this for character back story is great, but as far as min/max, it seems to be a bit of a waste. After a couple levels, you will be regretting this purchase unless the DM allows you to have the armor enchanted.
Beholderbob
If the stricter Pathfinder Society rules allow for adding pluses and enchantments to masterwork weapons and armor, then I would think many DMs would allow the same as long as it fits the way they run their worlds.
If the stricter Pathfinder Society rules allow for adding pluses and enchantments to masterwork weapons and armor, then I would think many DMs would allow the same as long as it fits the way they run their worlds.
I'd still verify with the DM that I could do it. In a non-society game, it would vary. For instance, I wouldn't let the PC do it without a game or three to locate someone to do it, bargain for the price, and leave the PC bereft of his armor for a day or two. Their are no magic stores for purchase of items or caster's to do these enchantments, you have to find the fellow with the time, interest, and prerequisite feats to do it. Then again, ask my players and they’ll tell you I'm a rotten bastard.
It was fun to earn that title, too.
Beholderbob
Now, I assume any DM worth his salt would not let you craft it before the game starts - otherwise craft skills would allow all PCs to multiple their effective starting gold.
After a couple levels, you will be regretting this purchase unless the DM allows you to have the armor enchanted.
I actually am happy to have players craft gear before the game starts, though at half-cost not third-cost (to account for failures). Adds plenty of flavor.
As for enchanting masterwork armor - yes, availability could be an issue, but it can certainly be enchanted by the rules.
For the OP: Rich Parent's trait, plus Craft (armorsmithing) could get the full plate made, but not the masterwork portion - DC is too high generally speaking. But you could probably get the full plate and improve it later.
If you want to have it "purchased", not made by you, ask your DM for a "debt". I once gave a PC a staff of the magi (recharging limited, only "half" a charge remaining, but added one per level gained), but he had inherited it with the family debt of 300K gp (interest included). Was kinda a curse.
First off, isn't Full Plate automatically considered Masterwork? Secondly, you can't make basic plate and then improve it to masterwork - by definition, a masterwork item is made at the highest quality by a master craftsman.
I just gave one of my players Full Plate at 1st level. He had a good background story as to why he had it. The other players had no issue with it so why not.
As a GM, if a player showed up with full plate at 1st level, I would dump his ass in a deep lake on the first encounter.
If I'm not mistaken, can't you craft stuff for half price or less? With the rich parents feat you could just spend the time crafting instead of adventuring. That could be fun. Maybe.
Now, I assume any DM worth his salt would not let you craft it before the game starts
What? Why not? 1st lvl characters don't receive a bag of gold on their 18th birthday when they decide to become an adventurer. Much of their starting gear is assumed to be items they've collected, bought, or crafted previous to beginning their adventures. If a player wants to put points in craft skills, as opposed to perception, sneak, and spellcraft, why shouldn't they benefit from that?
- otherwise craft skills would allow all PCs to multiple their effective starting gold - imagine a group of 4 players that take craft skills for armor, weapons, and alchemy. Buy raw materials, and spend the first 1-3 games staying in town to craft equipment on the cheap. Yikes!
Again, what? Why in the world would they have to spend multiple games crafting? They start with what they can make. DM checks the math. 15 minutes later they start playing. What's the big deal? If there is no benefit to taking craft skills, why in the world would anyone ever take them?
A fighter who crafted every single piece of armor, melee weapon, and bow would need to expend three of his/her starting skill points (at 2+ int. bonus) for the whopping benefit of the equivalent of +350 gold on average. Big whoop. I'd allow that in a heartbeat.
Now, I assume any DM worth his salt would not let you craft it before the game startsWhat? Why not? 1st lvl characters don't receive a bag of gold on their 18th birthday when they decide to become an adventurer. Much of their starting gear is assumed to be items they've collected, bought, or crafted previous to beginning their adventures. If a player wants to put points in craft skills, as opposed to perception, sneak, and spellcraft, why shouldn't they benefit from that?
- otherwise craft skills would allow all PCs to multiple their effective starting gold - imagine a group of 4 players that take craft skills for armor, weapons, and alchemy. Buy raw materials, and spend the first 1-3 games staying in town to craft equipment on the cheap. Yikes!Again, what? Why in the world would they have to spend multiple games crafting? They start with what they can make. DM checks the math. 15 minutes later they start playing. What's the big deal? If there is no benefit to taking craft skills, why in the world would anyone ever take them?
A fighter who crafted every single piece of armor, melee weapon, and bow would need to expend three of his/her starting skill points (at 2+ int. bonus) for the whopping benefit of the equivalent of +350 gold on average. Big whoop. I'd allow that in a heartbeat.
And these were the disagreements and differences that made the other thread I mentioned turn into a big, long argument. It came down to why let one character spend over a year pre-game crafting their armor for the reduced cost while all the other characters got no benefit for that same year. There was never any official Paizo ruling on this however, since the thread was in a sub-forum other than the Rules sub-forum.
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I just gave one of my players Full Plate at 1st level. He had a good background story as to why he had it. The other players had no issue with it so why not.
This is full of win.
As long as you're not playing in PF Society, and you as the GM are making sure that the uber-armor isn't making the game too easy, it's all about the fun.
First off, isn't Full Plate automatically considered Masterwork?Not in Pathfinder it ain't.
Oh, okay. Got that confused with 3.0 I guess. Or maybe just a figment of my imagination.
It seems such difficult bending backwards for armour that will be obsolete in a few levels, but the power deficiency of wasted feats and traits will sting for all your levels.
Not to mention, there are pobibly better ways to improve a fighter character's defensive abilites even at low levels.
Starting funds not from your 18th birthday?
Actually, your starting wealth is from your sweet sixteen birthday party, a gift from that uncle that insisted you sit on his lap. Wait a minute; I need to go talk to my therapist....
Starting gold is your collected funds, items passed down from family, gifts from your teacher, and a whole other bunch of things. A fighter who spent his early years in service to his lord doesn't get a craft check for money, but he did earn wages, same as with a bard entertaining. So - if you would allow one PC to spend a year crafting armor, would you allow the bard to make perform checks to earn funds? What about someone with a profession? Is cost of living waived (crafting armor for a year will not leave much time to work for wages)?
Allowing this crafting to be used ahead of time, but not a profession or perform is quite arbitrary, as well as overly focused on characters with high intelligence scores (more skill points and higher craft rolls). If you do allow this, can I, as a player, declare I'll work for a living for 1 year to accumulate extra funds? If not, why not, when you let a fellow spend a year building armor. Even if I craft something not directly needed, I could always sell my goods, earn money with a profession or perform. Would you allow a ranger to take a 1 year hiatus and earn money as a wilderness guide or hunter selling the meat and skins?
The idea sounds good, but in practice....
As a side note - I could see giving starting characters +x gp for all the skills they have that could earn them money. Perhaps +1 gp per +1 to a roll in: craft and profession, and half that for points in perform. Not a huge difference, but it might be a nice side bonus. Ehh, maybe not.
I think starting funds/gear are already meant to represent what the character saved/earned/stole/bought/made/whatever. Of course, he might have earned more with a craft or a profession beforehand - but he just did not. If this was for lack of opportunity, lack of dedication, being a spendthrift, being robbed, his house being burned down or whatever is for the player to decide. With crafts and professions, you need to stay at it to have a regular income. Stop working, and your funds will drain fast. So, I would not allow a player to raise his characters funds for having a certain set of skills. Most mundane gear is relatively cheap anyways once a character starts andventuring - besides the (full) plate and masterwork weapons (or other masterwork items), most gear is absolutely no problem once you reach 2nd level in a normal game with normal (as per rules) treasure.
To come back to the OPs question: Make a deal with the DM. The above mentioned feats and traits are possible, I guess, but still need DM approval. I´d rather talk to him beforehand instead of choosing the feats. Generally: I would ask: why bother? If you play fighter, you will probably be able to buy one once you reach 3rd level or so, so the feats and traits are really better spent on something else.
Stefan
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The Dodge feat will allow the bump to AC for a fighter and will add to the AC no matter what armor I am wearing. If I was a 1st level fighter wanting a good AC, I would go for a high dexterity build with dodge.
If you just wanted to be a knight in armor, I would suggest, as a DM, that you begin your career as a squire: one who is trying to make enough money to achieve your goal: Right there you have character development, backstory and a reason for adventuring.
If it was really, really important, I would be willing to handwave it in via DM fiat but I would penalize the character in some other way. Maybe he has just lost his sword or something like that.
The Dodge feat will allow the bump to AC for a fighter and will add to the AC no matter what armor I am wearing. If I was a 1st level fighter wanting a good AC, I would go for a high dexterity build with dodge.
If you just wanted to be a knight in armor, I would suggest, as a DM, that you begin your career as a squire: one who is trying to make enough money to achieve your goal: Right there you have character development, backstory and a reason for adventuring.
If it was really, really important, I would be willing to handwave it in via DM fiat but I would penalize the character in some other way. Maybe he has just lost his sword or something like that.
I happend to be a fan of Shield Focus and Greater Shield Focus too.
First off, isn't Full Plate automatically considered Masterwork?Not in Pathfinder it ain't.Oh, okay. Got that confused with 3.0 I guess. Or maybe just a figment of my imagination.
Right, but don't forget:
+1 armor of any type is automatically considered Masterwork.|
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First off, isn't Full Plate automatically considered Masterwork?Not in Pathfinder it ain't.Oh, okay. Got that confused with 3.0 I guess. Or maybe just a figment of my imagination.
Right, but don't forget:
+1 armor of any type is automatically considered Masterwork.
I think it is the other way around, in order for a suit of armour to be enchanted it must, at a minimum, be of masterwork quality.
I think it is the other way around, in order for a suit of armour to be enchanted it must, at a minimum, be of masterwork quality.Right, but don't forget:
+1 armor of any type is automatically considered Masterwork.
We're talking about the same thing.
Since the Masterwork quality is a prerequisite for enchantment, all enchanted weapons and armors are automatically considered to be Masterwork.
We're talking about the same thing.
Since the Masterwork quality is a prerequisite for enchantment, all enchanted weapons and armors are automatically considered to be Masterwork.
...and just in case anyone wonders, the bonus from being a masterwork weapon and a magic weapon don´t stack - magic "overrules" the MW bonus.
(this is confusing, especially to newbies, so I think it bears repeating.)Stefan
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We're talking about the same thing.
Since the Masterwork quality is a prerequisite for enchantment, all enchanted weapons and armors are automatically considered to be Masterwork....and just in case anyone wonders, the bonus from being a masterwork weapon and a magic weapon don´t stack - magic "overrules" the MW bonus.
(this is confusing, especially to newbies, so I think it bears repeating.)Stefan
One way to look at it is this: the first +1 magical bonus does not make the weapon swing better, it merely increases the damage potential.
One thing I have never considered though, and I can't remember reading about it anywhere; does a magical weapon with no bonuses (say a keen rapier) still benefit from the +1 to hit that comes from it being masterwork?
One thing I have never considered though, and I can't remember reading about it anywhere; does a magical weapon with no bonuses (say a keen rapier) still benefit from the +1 to hit that comes from it being masterwork?
You have to have that 1st enhancement bonus before you can add in any other quality. So, you will never have keen rapier, it would have to be a +1 keen rapier at least.
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One thing I have never considered though, and I can't remember reading about it anywhere; does a magical weapon with no bonuses (say a keen rapier) still benefit from the +1 to hit that comes from it being masterwork?You have to have that 1st enhancement bonus before you can add in any other quality. So, you will never have keen rapier, it would have to be a +1 keen rapier at least.
You are right once I check - page 468.
It seems to me though, that it was not this way in 3.0, which is the ruleset I used the longest (and thus still default to in my thinking when I am uncertain). I'll have to double check that now as well.
One way to look at it is this: the first +1 magical bonus does not make the weapon swing better, it merely increases the damage potential.
So the damage & attack bonus progression looks like this?
Masterwork = +1 Attack
+1 enchantment = +1 Damage
+2 enchantment = +1 Damage & Attack
+3 enchantment = +1 Damage & Attack
Etc
One way to look at it is this: the first +1 magical bonus does not make the weapon swing better, it merely increases the damage potential.
So the damage & attack bonus progression looks like this?
Masterwork = +1 Attack
+1 enchantment = +1 Damage
+2 enchantment = +1 Damage & Attack
+3 enchantment = +1 Damage & Attack
Etc
Masterwork weapons gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls. It's an enhancement bonus but it's also nonmagical and does not stack with other enhancement bonuses. The nonmagical part only comes up in places where magic fails.
The first +1 enhancement bonus that makes that weapon magical grants a +1 bonus on both attack and damage rolls. It's an enhancement bonus and magical. As it's an enhancement bonus, it will not stack with other enhancement bonuses, such as that masterwork quality I just described. Now that the weapon is magical, you may also add other qualities such as keen, flaming, defending, etc. to it. These don't increase the enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls but do increase the weapon's price as per the core rules.
Now let's say it's a +2 weapon. It has a +2 enhancement bonus to hit and damage. It's not giving you 2, separate +1 enhancement bonuses-that wouldn't work, they can't stack. You may have upgraded the item from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon, however, as per the core rules.
And so on for +3, +4, and +5 weapons.
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One way to look at it is this: the first +1 magical bonus does not make the weapon swing better, it merely increases the damage potential.
So the damage & attack bonus progression looks like this?
Masterwork = +1 Attack
+1 enchantment = +1 Damage
+2 enchantment = +1 Damage & Attack
+3 enchantment = +1 Damage & Attack
Etc
While Lathiira has the technicalities right, if you have straight up magical enhancement bonuses, this table is basically how it works. The Masterwork one cannot be taken away, even if the weapon loses its powers because it is non-magical. The magical nature of the +1 enchantment also means the weapon can overcome some DRs, but when you are trying to tell a new player how the bonuses stack, I always do so by pointing out that the masterwork makes it a +1 to hit and the first enchantment then increases the damage. I've had a couple of players who felt that as soon as their masterwork sword became +1 their attack should improve and I had to explain how it does not work that way.
Now let's say it's a +2 weapon. It has a +2 enhancement bonus to hit and damage. It's not giving you 2, separate +1 enhancement bonuses-that wouldn't work, they can't stack. You may have upgraded the item from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon, however, as per the core rules.And so on for +3, +4, and +5 weapons.
So, what you're saying is that a +3 weapon does not equal three +1 enchantments stacked.
Instead, a +3 enchantment just REPLACES the previous +2 enchantment (which replaced the original +1 enchantment)?|
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Now let's say it's a +2 weapon. It has a +2 enhancement bonus to hit and damage. It's not giving you 2, separate +1 enhancement bonuses-that wouldn't work, they can't stack. You may have upgraded the item from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon, however, as per the core rules.And so on for +3, +4, and +5 weapons.
So, what you're saying is that a +3 weapon does not equal three +1 enchantments stacked.
Instead, a +3 enchantment just REPLACES the previous +2 enchantment (which replaced the original +1 enchantment)?
This is just arguing semantics. The weapon functions as +3, not as +1+1+1. But if you were to upgrade the sword from +2 to +3 you would not pay the full +3 price (18,000 gp). You would pay the price of a +3 sword minus the price of a +2 sword (18K-8k = 10,000 gp total). This is because it is easiest to think of the bonuses as stacking when you are creating the item (in fact the rules basically call for this sort of thinking) but when in combat, the sword would function as a cohesive whole.
This would is just arguing semantics.
That's what I was thinking.
I agree that it's much easier to think of the bonuses as stacking when creating the item.
This would is just arguing semantics.That's what I was thinking.
I agree that it's much easier to think of the bonuses as stacking when creating the item.
It's definitely easier to think of the bonuses stacking, I agree. I was just trying to be careful with how I worded my answer aka semantics.
It's definitely easier to think of the bonuses stacking, I agree. I was just trying to be careful with how I worded my answer aka semantics.This would is just arguing semantics.That's what I was thinking.
I agree that it's much easier to think of the bonuses as stacking when creating the item.
You're right about wanting to explain things correctly.
It's better to fully understand the rules than THINK you fully understand the rules!|
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I think it is the other way around, in order for a suit of armour to be enchanted it must, at a minimum, be of masterwork quality.Right, but don't forget:
+1 armor of any type is automatically considered Masterwork.We're talking about the same thing.
Since the Masterwork quality is a prerequisite for enchantment, all enchanted weapons and armors are automatically considered to be Masterwork.
Yes but if you consider the "price" of the item, a +1 long swords value is 2315 gp.
2000 for +1
300 for MW
15 for being a long sword
I love how full plate is munchkin to some people. *eye roll*
No, trying to work out how to bend and warp the rules to allow it in at 1st level is Munchkin.