Rules question for a relative noob


Rules Questions


My experience is primarily with the Hero System. I have a good amount of experience with 2nd edition AD&D, some with 3.0 D&D, and very little with pathfinder.

I am now part of a campeign where everyone is level 10, and I have beenasked to make a character of that level. I worked up the stats on an Arcane Archer (Fighter 6, Wizard 1, Arcane Archer 3). Now I have yet to play him, and we have a "Not played not official" rule meaning I can make changes to him until I play him (Sunday).

What I am trying to figure out is if there are any rules conflicts with what I have chosen for feats and if they work well together or if I am wasting any (The players all like to make efficient characters). The following is from memory so if a name is wrong I appoligise

Feats
Improved Initiative
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon FInesse
Weapon Focus (Longbow)
Weapon Specilization (Longbow)
Vital Shot

I also have a Longbow +1 Speed

One question I have is how many arrows can I loosen in a round with this build, and what would the damage be on them. Assuming I am using the Arcane Archer ability to grant the arrow the flaming ability

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You might want to include the Deadly Aim feat in the build. It is quite effective.


I am away from my book right now, what does deadly aim do?

Also tell me if this is right

As a level 6 fighter I get 2 attacks
I get an additional attack do to my Bow for a total of three

Each attack would be 3 arrows (Rapid shot makes it 2, Plus one more for multi shot)

For 9 arrows

Each arrow would be +1 / +1 for the bow
+1 / +1 for the fighter ability
+1 / 0 For Focus
+0 / +2 for specilization
+1 / +1 for point blank
+ 1d6 for Flaming
+ 1d6 for Vital

So 9 arrows at +4 / +5 +2d6

Is this right or am I doing something really wrong (as I think I am)


Okay, so you have a BAB of +9, which nets you 2 attacks with a full attack. Rapid shot gives you one more, and Manyshot gives you a second arrow on your first shot. Since Manyshot isn't an extra attack roll, just extra damage, it's sort of weird to explain.

Without knowing your Dexterity modifier, you would have the following attack sequence: +9/+9/+4, with the first +8 firing two arrows.

If you don't mind a couple of comments on your feat selection, why Vital Strike and Weapon Finesse? You shouldn't have a hard time setting up full attacks with your longbow and, if you are stuck in melee, you can just 5-foot step and Burning Hands the guy in front of you. Weapon Finesse (and I don't mean to insult) is only useful if you plan to be pulling out your backup rapier to stab things with. You'd be better off taking a 5-foot step and full attacking with your bow or casting a spell.

As an Archer you most definitely want Deadly Aim. The attack/damage trade off might seem like a bad plan, but since you can turn it on and off each round (if you need to), you use it when a -2 or -3 to hit still gives you a decent chance, because the +4 or +6 per arrow is very nice to have.

EDIT: Manyshot only adds an extra arrow on the first attack, not each subsequent attack. Vital Strike only adds its extra damage when you use a standard action to fire a single arrow, not on every arrow fired. I had originally forgotten to include the Weapon Training (Bows) in the attack calculation. I edited that in now. Also, keep in mind that Point Blank Shot only works when you are within 30 feet of your opponent, not all the time.


I put weapon Finesse on in case I had to pull out my rapier, more than willing to drop it and come back to it at a later date.

As I said I don't have the book handy what exactly does Deadly Aim do?

Ohh Dex 18

What about the Speed on the Bow, does that give another shot?


Jason Wedel wrote:

My experience is primarily with the Hero System. I have a good amount of experience with 2nd edition AD&D, some with 3.0 D&D, and very little with pathfinder.

I am now part of a campeign where everyone is level 10, and I have beenasked to make a character of that level. I worked up the stats on an Arcane Archer (Fighter 6, Wizard 1, Arcane Archer 3). Now I have yet to play him, and we have a "Not played not official" rule meaning I can make changes to him until I play him (Sunday).

What I am trying to figure out is if there are any rules conflicts with what I have chosen for feats and if they work well together or if I am wasting any (The players all like to make efficient characters). The following is from memory so if a name is wrong I appoligise

Feats
Improved Initiative
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon FInesse
Weapon Focus (Longbow)
Weapon Specilization (Longbow)
Vital Shot

I also have a Longbow +1 Speed

One question I have is how many arrows can I loosen in a round with this build, and what would the damage be on them. Assuming I am using the Arcane Archer ability to grant the arrow the flaming ability

Unless you plan to fight in melee, you could probably exchange the Weapon Finesse feat for the Deadly Aim. By doing this, you could add some significant damage.

With this build, using a full attack action you would end up with 3* shots that fire at full attack bonus -5 (-2 from Rapid Shot, -3 from Deadly Aim) *The first shot is two arrows because of Many Shot, as well as a 4th attack at -10. Every Arrow* (*5 taking into account Many Shot) would deal 1d8+9 + 1d6 fire plus Point Blank if it applies. The Speed on the bow does give you that third attack at the full BAB.
On a single attack action, with Vital Strike (Shot as you wrote, but the feat still works for ranged attacks) you would make a single attack at -3 (from Deadly Aim) and it would deal 2d8+18 + 1d6 fire.

FULL: +10/+10/+10/+5
SINGLE: +12

I'm pretty sure this is right, but I could be wrong on a few details.
I would say if you can, make the bow a Composite Bow that allows for Strength (assuming you have it). I think the Vital Strike is a good choice for backup when you you don't have the option to full attack. Improved Init is a good standby, but not really necessary in my opinion.


Deadly Aim link

It essentially lets you trade your attack bonus for a damage bonus on a 1-for-2 basis. It's useful. Trust me. If you are only hitting between 30 and 5% of the time, don't use it. If you only hit on a natural 20, turn it on. If you hit on a 14 or lower, make sure to have it on.


Ok, using my current build (Thinking I will take deadly aim, but there are a few others that are tempting as well)

Number of shots: 4 (3 at -2, 1 at -7). Can be 3 at 0 and -5 if not using rapid
1 Base
1 Rapid Attack
1 Bow
1 extra attack at -5

To hit: +15 (can be 17 if not using rapid)
+9 BAB
+4 Dex
+1 Weapon Training
-2 Rapid Shot
+1 Weapon Focus
+1 Bow
+1 Point Blank (If within 30')

Damage
1d8 Base
+1 Bow
+1 Weapon Training
+2 Weapon Specilization
+1 Point Blank (If within 30')
+1d6 Arcane Archer ability
+1d8 Vital Strike (Single Attack only) or two arrows with first shot

For a 5(1d8 +1d6 +5) as a max damage potential (Full attack, all hit)
or a 2d8 +1d6 +5 as a single attack

I am seriously rethinking vital strike, but I do like it.

My wishlish for feats include dodge, Mobility, Fire and shoot, and the two arcane armor feats (reduce spell failure)

Liberty's Edge

Just to reiterate what Benjamin suggested - you should make sure your bow is a Composite Longbow with a Strength rating that will take advantage of any strength bonus you have one (strenght of at least 12?)


Githzilla wrote:
Just to reiterate what Benjamin suggested - you should make sure your bow is a Composite Longbow with a Strength rating that will take advantage of any strength bonus you have one (strenght of at least 12?)

Will have to double check but I thought Arcane Archers were disadvantages with using composite Longbows


Keep in mind your first attack on a full attack action does essentially double damage due to many shot. And you should definately get deadly aim. Like someone else said always use it unless you are having alot of trouble hitting an enemy. The extra damage helps alot

So you will look like this
First attack[affected by many shot] +17-2(rapid shot)-3(deadly aim) = +12
2d8+1(bow)+2(x2weapon training)+4(x2weapon spec)+2(x2point blank)+12(x2deadly aim) +1d6(Archane archer ability does not multipy) = 2d8+1d6+20

Second attack +17-2(rapid shot)-3(deadly aim) = +12
1d8+1(bow)+1(weapon training)+2(weapon spec)+1(point blank)+6(deadly aim) +1d6(Archane archer ability)= 1d8+10

Third attack +17-2(rapid shot)-3(deadly aim) = +12
1d8+1(bow)+1(weapon training)+2(weapon spec)+1(point blank)+6(deadly aim) +1d6(Archane archer ability)= 1d8+10

Fourth attack +17-2(rapid shot)-3(deadly aim)-5(iterative attack) = +7
1d8+1(bow)+1(weapon training)+2(weapon spec)+1(point blank)+6(deadly aim) +1d6(Archane archer ability)= 1d8+10

This is assuming you do not have a positive strenght score. But honestly, you should try to have one at least 12 preferably 14. In which case you should get a bow with that strength rating, and thus increase your damage on all of your attacks (it would be double on the first attach). Also using the vital strike tree is not a bad idea. It allows an extra punch when you dont have a full round to take. Really handy when you have to move, or when you get a surprise round. But it is not your prefered method of attack. You WANT to take a full attack. It is the advantage of being ranged. You will get to do so more then your typical melee fighter. So I would advise against things like mobility and shot on the run. The just arent as good a choice. Pick up vital strike, and when you qualify improved vital strike. That is good enough for those times when mobility is needed.

Also, if you are worried about spell failure a couple things to keep in mind. A what kind of armor are you wearing? You say you have an 18 dex, do you have a dex belt? At level 10 you should. Which means a mithral chain shirt or leather armor is likely in your future. Try to solve the spell failure problem with gear before you look to do so with precious feats.

If you get mithral chain shirt you'll only need arcane armor training 1. Another feat you may wish to consider (to enhance your damage a bit) is arcane strike. You cant use that in the same round you do arcane armor training (both are a swift action) but chances are you wont need to. Arcane strike will be used when you are full attacking, not casting a spell.


Armor is Mitheral Chain mail+2 with Shadow ability


On the first attack why would the arcane archer ability not double (Would not both arrows be flaming?)


Both arrows would gain the Flaming property. I suspect it was a simple omission. (Like me missing the Speed property on your bow earlier and only listing 4 arrows in my earlier post.)

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