1) "An eidolon secretes toxic venom, gaining a poison attack. Pick a
bite or sting attack. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, the target is poisoned."
Can an eidolon with the poison evolution apply their own poison to weapons?
2) "Weapon Training (Ex): An eidolon learns to use a weapon, gaining Simple Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat. If 1 additional evolution point is spent, it gains proficiency with all martial weapons as well."
There does not seem to be a requirement that the eidolon possess the Arms evolution in order to wield weapons. Is there such a requirement, or is the ever-changing form of the eidolon assumed to be adaptable enough to wield without arms?
In several places regarding the eidolon it states that the eidolon must have appropriate appendages, to use an evolution pool.
Usually I would say - arems are necessary. However if you have a tail I would probably allow some weaposn to be used.
Re-looking at the evolutions, the "arms" evolution states that arms with hands will allow the eidolon to wield weapons. So this is an indirect statement of the requirement.
On further review, it really seems like the pounce evolution combined with multiple claw evolutions (with improved natural attack) might make a formidable melee fighter.
pounce, bite, trip, claw, claw, claw, claw, rend.
Additional Questions:
snip2. The Reach ability says:
"One of an eidolon's attacks is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon's reach with that attack increases by 5 feet."
Give an eidolo with 4 pairs of claws. I would rule that only 1 claw has the extended reach.
Comments?
I would agree with this as only one attack not one type of attack gains reach
In several places regarding the eidolon it states that the eidolon must have appropriate appendages, to use an evolution pool.
Usually I would say - arems are necessary. However if you have a tail I would probably allow some weaposn to be used.
Re-looking at the evolutions, the "arms" evolution states that arms with hands will allow the eidolon to wield weapons. So this is an indirect statement of the requirement.
On further review, it really seems like the pounce evolution combined with multiple claw evolutions (with improved natural attack) might make a formidable melee fighter.
pounce, bite, trip, claw, claw, claw, claw, rend.
and that combo would cost a bipedal eilodon 8 evo points (6th required to get rend)but can't be given to bipeds ... only quadrapeds ... and then it costs 6 evo points but still won't be complete till 6th... and that is if your dm lets you attack with the back legs... otherwise they will need axtra limbs and that is once again 8 evo...
so you declare a charge using pounce... bite and trip... then take the full attack (this might include another bite and trip) 4 claws and as long as 2 hit a rend.
but once again the rend won't come till 6th...
impressive indead
In several places regarding the eidolon it states that the eidolon must have appropriate appendages, to use an evolution pool.
Usually I would say - arems are necessary. However if you have a tail I would probably allow some weaposn to be used.
Re-looking at the evolutions, the "arms" evolution states that arms with hands will allow the eidolon to wield weapons. So this is an indirect statement of the requirement.
On further review, it really seems like the pounce evolution combined with multiple claw evolutions (with improved natural attack) might make a formidable melee fighter.
pounce, bite, trip, claw, claw, claw, claw, rend.
and that combo would cost a bipedal eilodon 8 evo points (6th required to get rend)but can't be given to bipeds ... only quadrapeds ... and then it costs 6 evo points but still won't be complete till 6th... and that is if your dm lets you attack with the back legs... otherwise they will need axtra limbs and that is once again 8 evo...
so you declare a charge using pounce... bite and trip... then take the full attack (this might include another bite and trip) 4 claws and as long as 2 hit a rend.
but once again the rend won't come till 6th...
impressive indead
Points
(bite) - free with quad
(limbs) x 2 - free with quad
claws (front legs) - 1 pt.
claws (rear legs) - 1 pt.
trip - 1 pt.
pounce - 1 pt.
improved damage (claw) - 1pt.
So far we're only at level 3 (5 points), which gives:
pounce, bite, trip, claw, claw, claw, claw
4th level - add another limbs for 2 pts (+10 speed)
5th level - add another claw attack
pouce, bite (1d6), trip, claw, claw, claw, claw, claw, claw (1d4)
6th level - add large or rend, remove trip?
pouce, bite (1d8), trip, claw, claw, claw, claw, claw, claw (1d6)
hmm. Only problem is that the claws are secondary attacks, and even with multiattack, they are still at -2 with 1/2 strength bonus.
If we could go a biped,
We could go:
Slam (arms) - 1pt. Primary attack (1d8)
Bite - 1pt. Primary attack (1d6)
Claw (legs) - free
Tail - 1pt.
Sting - 1pt. Primary attack(1d4)
Improved damage (sting) - 1pt
3rd level:
Bite, slam, claw, claw, sting
If we go serpentine
We could go
bite - free
tail slap - free (secondary)
sting (tail) - 1pt.
tail - 1pt.
sting (tail) - 1pt
improved damage (sting) - 1pt.
tail slap - 1pt. (secondary)
3rd level:
bite, sting, sting, tail slap, tail slap
The nice thing about the sting and bite is that at 7th level, we can pick up poison, and do multiple poison attacks. We can take improved damage (poison) and up the damage to d6's. I'm not sure whether or not it's worth the 2 extra points to make it CON damage.
I keep coming back to the serpentine as a viable form. Especially if we take weapon finesse as a feat, using dex for attacks on natural weapons.
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Remeber that Pathfinder changed how poison works. Each someone is exposed to the poison(after the first time) the DC gets a +1. So hitting your foe's CON score is worth it, because it only gets easier to poison them again(DC goes up by 1 while their Fort and HP goes down).
And then you give the it Ability Focus(Poison) to up the base DC by 2...
remember claws are primary attacks now not secondary - it was fixed
I missed that. That makes claws much much better, given that spending one point on it gives you two primary attacks.
It's not on the sticky for the summoner update. Do you have a link to the update on that?
I missed that. That makes claws much much better, given that spending one point on it gives you two primary attacks.
I would hope your GM would say no to buying claw attacks for the back legs, it ranks up there with a biped buying claws for their feet.
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I dont see why not in either case - tigers & such have claws on all four legs & while bears are generally consider quadrapeds they can walk for distances on two & have claws on hind legs as well
as a DM though I would only allow the hindlegs to attack on a pounce & not thereafter - eg. the eidolon jumps/pounces onto an opponent & gets to use the rear legs in the attack but after that they use the hind legs to balance on
this thereby limits the effectiveness of buying claws on rear legs as pouncing would happen only every second round as a minimum as the eidolon needs to move away from the opponent to charge again
I dont see why not in either case - tigers & such have claws on all four legs & while bears are generally consider quadrapeds they can walk for distances on two & have claws on hind legs as well
However, the hind-claws that are used for attacking (bears and dogs, for example, have claws on their hind legs; however, those claws are not used for attacking, but rather for mobility) are universally represented by the Rake attack in d20.
<semi-sarcastic and semi-serious>
The Eidolon's are supposed to be fantastic though.. so should we so limit them to the mannerisms and biologies of real creatures?
I mean, we could also quibble that most creatures don't also have legs, tentacles, and jaws with 10 foot reach in real time.
<end semi-sarcastic semi-serious comment>
-S
I would hope your GM would say no to buying claw attacks for the back legs, it ranks up there with a biped buying claws for their feet.I missed that. That makes claws much much better, given that spending one point on it gives you two primary attacks.
Given that the eidolon is a "fantastic" creature, capable of having multiple pairs of arms, legs, or even multiple tails, and that there is no limitation in the rules that claw attacks are limited to the limbs(arms) evolution, I don't see any expectation that a claw attack should be limited to just arms.
While the final version of the Summoner class may include such a limitation, it does not currently exist as far as I can find in the PDF, or in Jason's online updates.
or maybe adding in a rake evolution instead of or in addition to rend... but that would be: claw, claw, rend, rake
and i would not allow attacking with hind legs... how would they stay standing? with both front legs and back legs swinging at the target?
or maybe adding in a rake evolution instead of or in addition to rend... but that would be: claw, claw, rend, rake
and i would not allow attacking with hind legs... how would they stay standing? with both front legs and back legs swinging at the target?
Who says it needs to stay standing? The serpentine evolution has no legs, yet it can make attacks. It could even take a limbs(arms) or limbs(legs) evolution and then take claws and attack.
I think the problem is that you are trying to look at the eidolon as if it were an animal that you have seen before. It isn't. It's a "fantastical creature". Try to imagine something with a prehensile body, multiple sets of tails, arms, legs, any of which can be used for multiple purposes. Perhaps it pounces, resting on a pseudopodal protuberance from the body and attacks with all limbs. Perhaps any tail it has is actually forward facing. Perhaps it has multiple tails facing in cardinal directions. Perhaps it doesn't even have a head, but has a gaping maw in its body with razor sharp teeth.
granted... but unless you take the 4 point fly evo gravity still works... unless you are simply ignoring it... so like i said i would not allow it... but you can as a dm... that is fine... i simply am saying it should not be presented as the standard but as the exception